the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
icon

ford 2008 f 350 avital 4103 , pkall


Post ReplyPost New Topic
< Prev Topic Next Topic >
tim051 
Member - Posts: 13
Member spacespace
Joined: July 31, 2013
Location: Texas, United States
Posted: August 02, 2013 at 5:38 PM / IP Logged  

Hi Folks,

Newbie here with a 2008 Ford F-350.  The truck has auto locks, electric windows, etc, but was not ordered with a keyless entry system. 

I have just received an Avital 4103LXL and a PKALL data immobilizer override. I have also downloaded the applicable vehicle wire colors/locations for the truck and the installation manual for the 4103.

1.  Is the PKALL a standalone unit that interfaces only with the Ignition key wires? (it appears so, but wanted to make sure that it's not connected to the 4103).

2.  How do I remove the plastic under the steering wheel to gain access to the wiring harness?  (not wanting to break any plastic tabs making entry)!

I have a lot of years doing electronics (>40), and many 2-way radio installations, but this will be my first keyless entry.  (I know the basics, but not the tricks)!

It seems that the proper sequence to installation is to first compare the required signals of the 4103 with those in the Ford document, using the names and multimeter to confirm their function.

Next, I would connect those like named wires to the Ford's harness/kickplate/wherever.  I have noticed that some signals have a +, and some have a -.  Are these complements of each other? (one would go high, and one would go low for the same function)?

I'm going to start slow!!

Thanks,

Tim

Tim
kreg357 
Platinum - Posts: 7,781
Platinum spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Electrical Theory. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Security and Convenience. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: January 30, 2009
Location: Pennsylvania, United States
Posted: August 02, 2013 at 7:49 PM / IP Logged  
The PKALL will make a few connections to the Avital 4103, one directly and three for convenience ( going W2W ).
The PKALL Blue/White (-) While Running wire goes to the 4103's Dark Blue (-) 200mA Status Output wire.
You can also connect the PKALL's Pink Ignition wire to the 4103's thick Pink Ignition wire. The 4103 thick Pink wire
will continue to the F350's WHITE/ Orange Ignition wire.
The power for the PKALL can also be connected to the 4103. PKALL Blue to 4103 thick Red and PKALL Black to the
4103 H1/8 Black Chassis Ground wire. Each of these 4103 wires will continue to the F350.
Basically, most people will "bench prep" the two units prior to installation. This allows all the interconnections to be
made under ideal conditions.
Here is some more info on the F350's transponder wires.
TX = Pin 3 Yellow/Orange
RX = Pin 4 Violet/Gray
You will need two, working, non-clone keys to program the PKALL.
I have found that it is easier / safer to make some of the R/S connections at the SJB. The SJB is in the passenger
kick panel. You will have to extend the 4103's wires to reach. You should get the locks and the Parking Light (+)
wires at the SJB. ( Do not use the (-) Parking Light wire at the Headlight switch.)
As you mentioned, there are multiple places to get the necessary vehicle wires and sometimes the wire guides will
show both a (+) and a (-) wire. You will use only one, whichever is most logical / convenient / supported.
There are several sources for vehicles wiring. Download them all and compare. There will be differences. Make
up a "cheat sheet" and use that to locate / test / verify the wires. Use your Digital Multi Meter. Here is a list of wire
guide sources :
Here is a link to Bulldog Security : http://www.bulldogsecurity.com/bdnew/vehiclewiringdiagrams.asp
Here is a link to Ready Remote : http://www.readyremote.com/main.asp
Here is a link to AudioVox : http://techservices.audiovox.com/AccessRequest.aspx    Sign-up & info is free.
The truck is pretty straight forward to do.   Get everything prepped first, then the actual install should take a few
hours.
Soldering is fun!
tim051 
Member - Posts: 13
Member spacespace
Joined: July 31, 2013
Location: Texas, United States
Posted: August 02, 2013 at 11:36 PM / IP Logged  

Thanks Kreg,

Those links are a lot of help - I'm going to put together a TO/FROM sheet & see how things line up.

Interesting about having 2 keys (fortunately I do have 2)... will probably have to do some additional research on the way to do the 'programming'.

Thanks again!

Tim

Tim
kreg357 
Platinum - Posts: 7,781
Platinum spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Electrical Theory. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Security and Convenience. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: January 30, 2009
Location: Pennsylvania, United States
Posted: August 03, 2013 at 5:56 AM / IP Logged  
Thorough planning is always a wise choice. Last minute surprises aren't fun.
The PKAL programming is detailed on the right side of the install guide. It is similar to programming a replacement
transponder key. ( Which you might think about doing. Chipped keys are around $7 and having an extra key can come
in handy.) Here is a link to the PKALL / 2008 F350 guide :
http://www.xpresskit.com/DocumentDownload.aspx?documentid=6065&productid=196&firmwareid=1636
Additional info :
The Avital 4103 H2/1 BLACK/ WHITE (-) NEUTRAL SAFETY SWITCH INPUT is connected to Chassis Ground on vehicles
with automatic transmissions.
Ensure that the Avital 4103's Parking Light jumper is set to (+).
Connect the Avital 4103's thick Pink/White to the F350's Accessory2 wire. Change the Avital 4103's programming to
reflect this connection ( Menu 2, Item 6 to Option 2 ).
My personal preference is to run in Tach Mode. This requires connecting the Avital 4103's H2/2 VIOLET/WHITE
TACHOMETER INPUT WIRE to a good Tach source, changing Menu 2, Item 1 to Option 4 and performing the Tach Learn
procedure. This will ensure reliable remote starts and provide Over-Rev protection. There are several sources for the
Tach wire, depending on the engine. Here is a link to a picture of the Tach wire on a diesel engine :
http://documents.audiovox.com/701218.pdf    The wire guides list Tach wire sources and a F.I. is always good with a
gasoline engine.
If the F350 has a diesel engine, change the Avital 4103's Menu 2, Item 10 to Option 2 for a 15 second Wait To Start delay.
After all your connections are made and before programming the PKALL, you can test things by unplugging the PKALL's
4 Pin power plug, then insert the Avital 4103's two power fuses. Make any required programming changes to the Avital
4103, perform the Tach Learn ( if using Tach Mode ) then verify that the F350 can successfully remote start by inserting a
key in the ignition switch ( but left at OFF, don't turn the key ). If everything is OK, then continue the install by programming
the PKALL.
Soldering is fun!
tim051 
Member - Posts: 13
Member spacespace
Joined: July 31, 2013
Location: Texas, United States
Posted: August 04, 2013 at 8:35 PM / IP Logged  

Hi Kreg,

Just about got the spread sheet done - looks pretty straight forward.  Just a couple more questions (for now)!

The dual high current inputs - should I take these from the battery, or into the harness?  (I already have some wires going through the big grommet in the firewall, so it would be pretty easy to do a couple of more).

On the PKAL- looks like the only wires that I need to connect are the TX/RX from the ignition barrel to the PKAL 6 pin connector, and +12 & GND on the adjacent 4 pin connector.  Correct? 

How to remove the plastic under the steering wheel to gain access?

Thanks again... might start the 'real' work this week, work permitting.

Tim

Tim
kreg357 
Platinum - Posts: 7,781
Platinum spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Electrical Theory. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Security and Convenience. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: January 30, 2009
Location: Pennsylvania, United States
Posted: August 04, 2013 at 9:20 PM / IP Logged  
If I remember correctly the vehicles ignition wires are thin gauge. I believe I went to the SJB and the thick Red wire at
Plug H with a fused down single 20 Amp wire. Of course you can always go directly to the battery.
Think we covered the PKALL's connections earlier.   Besides the 4 wires you just mentioned...
The PKALL Blue/White goes to the 4103's Dark Blue Status Output.
The PKALL Pink goes to the 4103's think Pink IGN1 wire ( which goes to the F350's ORANGE / White Ignition wire ).
I can't remember the steering column too well either ( been doing a lot of Subaru's and GM's recently ). I believe Ford
used a small 6mm bolt in the newer trucks but your 2008 should be fairly basic. There will be some fasteners in the
bottom panel, then gently squeeze in at the side seams to separate to two halves. Don't think the key cylinder is like the
older Taurus, either. You might not have to remove the steering column cover if you can find the wires in the harness
as it leaves the column and goes under the dash.
Be careful while testing for the Horn wire ( if you decide to use it ). Ford has a bad habit of including it in the Air Bag
harness / connector. Always test with a Digital Multi Meter.
Soldering is fun!
tim051 
Member - Posts: 13
Member spacespace
Joined: July 31, 2013
Location: Texas, United States
Posted: August 05, 2013 at 2:32 PM / IP Logged  

Got the TO/FROM spreadsheet complete, and am now 'looking' for wires!

Got the shroud/plastic away from the steering wheel easily, and looking for the two ignition barrel data wires.

There are several connectors on and around the steering wheel, and all feed down into a large harness.  However, I don't see a 4pin connector near the ignition, nor do I see any YELLOW/ORANGE wires in the large harness.  I do see a VIOLET/GREY.

Coming out of what looks to be the backside of the ignition switch is a 16 pin connector, the bottom two are VIOLET/GREY & YELLOW/RED.

I don't like messing around with anything colored yellow!!

Tim
kreg357 
Platinum - Posts: 7,781
Platinum spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Electrical Theory. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Security and Convenience. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: January 30, 2009
Location: Pennsylvania, United States
Posted: August 05, 2013 at 4:19 PM / IP Logged  
For the transponder connector, here is a link to an install guide for another brand bypass module :
http://cdncontent2.idatalink.com/corporate/Content/Manuals/TB-KO/ADS-TB-KO-EN_20130604.pdf
Page 8 has a diagram of the ignition barrel and the description of the transponder connector ( Black 4 Pin ).
While I haven't ever seen one, maybe your truck might not have a transponder immobilizer system. Did you
ever try a plain $1.99 hardware store copy of your key to see if it starts the truck?
Soldering is fun!
tim051 
Member - Posts: 13
Member spacespace
Joined: July 31, 2013
Location: Texas, United States
Posted: August 05, 2013 at 5:24 PM / IP Logged  

The picture of the ignition switch in the link doesn't look at all like the one in the truck. (it's a generic drawing) 

This one is about 6" long, and that 16 pin connector is at the backside of it.

I talked to a guy at a dealership's parts department, and he did say that there were some 2008's that didn't have the transponder, and perhaps this was one.  He asked about the thickness of the key - he said that if it was about 1/4" thick, then it did have the chip in it.  When I suggested trying a non-chip key, he said that I'd have one shot at it before it locked up.

Wonder if that also includes trying to use the 4103 to start it without the PKAL... I was thinking about just hooking up the 4103 & see if it works.

I have a friend that has access to the alldata bank.. I'll go hit him up to have a look at the wiring diagram of the ignition switch/steering wheel.  Maybe that will explain where the Yellow/Orange wire went!

in the mean time, I will post a different subject here asking about 2008's that don't have the transponder system.

Thanks!

Tim
tim051 
Member - Posts: 13
Member spacespace
Joined: July 31, 2013
Location: Texas, United States
Posted: August 05, 2013 at 5:38 PM / IP Logged  

In the process of trying to find all of the wires to put in the 4103 & PKAL module in my truck, I can't find the Yellow/Orange wire from the ignition switch module.  It is also not in the harness of wires that goes from the steering wheel back into the bowels of the dashboard.

The entire ignition switch module is about 6" long, and the only connector I can see that has anything to do with the actual switch is a 10 pin connector that evidently senses OFF, ACC, ON, START, etc.

At first I saw a 16 pin connector on the casting that might be something, but these are signals from the steering wheel - cruise, horn, etc.

So the question is, does this truck have an immobilizer built into it?  It certainly looks like an 'old-school' type of ignition switch.

One parts guy I spoke with said that if the keys were 1/4" thick, then they had a chip inside.  I wonder if Ford would use a separate key for a non-transponder vehicle, or just use the 'standard' key.

I'd appreciate it if anybody has some info to respond.

Thanks!

Tim
Page of 3

  Printable version Printable version Post ReplyPost New Topic
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

  •  
Search the12volt.com
Follow the12volt.com Follow the12volt.com on Facebook
Thursday, March 28, 2024 • Copyright © 1999-2024 the12volt.com, All Rights Reserved Privacy Policy & Use of Cookies
Disclaimer: *All information on this site ( the12volt.com ) is provided "as is" without any warranty of any kind, either expressed or implied, including but not limited to fitness for a particular use. Any user assumes the entire risk as to the accuracy and use of this information. Please verify all wire colors and diagrams before applying any information.

Secured by Sectigo
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
Support the12volt.com
Top
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer