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led flasher


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rapidtransit 
Member - Posts: 12
Member spacespace
Joined: February 17, 2014
Posted: February 17, 2014 at 4:07 PM / IP Logged  
Hey Guys and Girls,
Newbe here learning as I go. Heres my question:
I am here now using an LED Bank from Cartek as my running/ tail light on a Suzuki motorcycle. Its 12 volts. I brought the 555 timer assembly from ebay so I can also set it to flash at 5hz. (Racing Rain Light)
My objective is as followed: the tail light is normally on (successfully dimmed it with resistors) and is at 12 volt for brake light function. Works no problems.
When I turn on the flasher, Id like to remove power from the tail and brake inputs and only have flash.
I attempted to do so with a 5 pin standard relay. So when flasher switches on, relay kills power to tail/brake and flashes.
Everything works great independently but some type of interference from the relay has an affect on the flasher. It will flash much faster. I tried to wire the relay to it switches ground but either way no luck. Did a lot of reading but not trying to ruin a $200 light.
I figure a Solid State Relay will solve the problem but have been looking online today with no luck either.
I know very little about transistors and a little about resistors but again am erring on the side of caution and asking for assistance.
One thing to mention, I am planning on using the oem turn signal switch to switch on the flasher (with the oem flasher bypassed) so using a different switch is not an option.
Thanks!!!
used this sight with great success and finally posting!
powerslave 
Copper - Posts: 126
Copper spacespace
Joined: April 23, 2002
Location: United States
Posted: February 17, 2014 at 9:51 PM / IP Logged  
See if you can replace the OE Flasher with an LED Flasher.
rapidtransit 
Member - Posts: 12
Member spacespace
Joined: February 17, 2014
Posted: February 17, 2014 at 10:10 PM / IP Logged  
Will try! My only concern is maintaining the 5hz flash rate to remain race spec. Do u know of a solid state double throw relay available? I appreciate ur knowledge.
oldspark 
Gold - Posts: 4,913
Gold spacespace
Joined: November 03, 2008
Location: Australia
Posted: February 18, 2014 at 12:36 AM / IP Logged  
What OE flasher?
As I understand it - and paraphrasing with an applicable design...
An SPDT relay (aka 5 pin but NOT all 5 pin relays) is normally off so its NC Normally Closed contacts connect the tail/brake light/LED normally. (30 to light; 87a to tail/brake feed.)
A +12V Racing Rain Light switch powers the 5Hz 555 circuit AND energises the relay to switch the LEDs over to pin 87 which is the 555 circuit's +12V flashing output (with suitable dimming resistor).
IE - there is no OE flasher involved, nor are the OE flashers involved. This is simply a brake/tail or flashing tail circuit.
If that circuit effects the 555 rate, I'd suspect a bigger cap is needed across the 555 supply. The 555's switching transients cause voltage spikes from the relay coil and hence effect the 555 timing.
[ In normal 555 circuits, insufficient supply decoupling (caps) cause similar spurious behavior. ]
I'd expect the 555 circuit has a series diode to (help?) protect against reverse polarity so add the cap(s) after that. Typically 10uF is specified (from memory).   Maybe add a small 0.1uF or 0.01uF as well.
If no diode, I'd consider adding one (it should help) noting that will slightly dim the LEDs (0.7V less).
And I'd assume the brake/tail LEDs are under 200mA (the max source/sink capability of a 555) else have appropriate output buffering (transistors)?
There are other ways of achieving the above. If so please describe.
I'd avoid SS relays. IMO they are too expensive else too finicky for DC or automotive applications (unless they have greatly improved).
rapidtransit 
Member - Posts: 12
Member spacespace
Joined: February 17, 2014
Posted: February 18, 2014 at 3:37 AM / IP Logged  
U mentioned that there are other ways to achieve the above. By all means do share. Basically i had it wired as you described. I can go look up all the exact specs when i get home later today. Will also map out the diagram and post it too but if feel that theres an easier way to achieve the desired results, im all ears. And again i thank you a milliontimes. This is all new to me and I want to make sure i learn and do it correct.
oldspark 
Gold - Posts: 4,913
Gold spacespace
Joined: November 03, 2008
Location: Australia
Posted: February 18, 2014 at 5:17 AM / IP Logged  
Nah - the other ways are more complex. I mentioned them so you wouldn't worry if that was not how yours was wired, and preempt litols.
rapidtransit 
Member - Posts: 12
Member spacespace
Joined: February 17, 2014
Posted: February 18, 2014 at 5:26 AM / IP Logged  
Im begininng to understand it more. I ll upload my current diagram at some point today (stuck at work for snow duty) and then im sure you ll see my mistake immediately. Thanks again!!!!
oldspark 
Gold - Posts: 4,913
Gold spacespace
Joined: November 03, 2008
Location: Australia
Posted: February 18, 2014 at 1:34 PM / IP Logged  
Well I'm back from my country creek swim... No, not really, it's only 30C (86F) here...
Often diagrams make design errors obvious - assuming they accurately represent the wiring!
But assuming it is wired correctly and as I described, I'll bet it's a noise issue.
Could use a 2W bulb (<200mA!) in place of the relay coil to test tho that might be inconclusive (eg, bulbs are also inductive like coils BUT that should be negligible - ie, unlike a coil you won't get a kick from a bulb - however bulbs do have high inrush currents).
But it might be easier simply to parallel a cap across the 555 (pins 1 & 8).
Maybe too let us know what 555 module or its circuit.
rapidtransit 
Member - Posts: 12
Member spacespace
Joined: February 17, 2014
Posted: February 18, 2014 at 4:44 PM / IP Logged  
Drawing it up as i write! Will upload soon. Its the worst winter ever in new york city. Cold snaps and storms... 86 is a dream!
rapidtransit 
Member - Posts: 12
Member spacespace
Joined: February 17, 2014
Posted: February 18, 2014 at 6:02 PM / IP Logged  
Ok.. the drawing is exactly what i have now. For all intensive purposes the 10v+ is done using two ressitors from radio shack. Off the top of my head i cant tell you their rating but for all intensive purpose it flows thru the relay fine. All suppy volts are fused appropriately. The links below are to the flasher and the light. The light draws 250Ma at 13vdc. All of the diodes are the In4005. Let the jury speak!!! :-)
http://www.cartekmotorsport.com/FiARAINLIGHT.html
http://m./itm/151110546574?cmd=VIDESC&gxo=true
led flasher -- posted image.
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