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sony head unit discharging battery


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efx26 
Copper - Posts: 64
Copper spacespace
Joined: July 09, 2007
Posted: September 28, 2014 at 1:37 AM / IP Logged  
I was wondering if anyone knew what goes wrong with some of the Sony head units that pretty much drain the battery. I have this unit that I eventually found drained the battery. The weird thing is that I actually like the head unit as it still works, but for whatever reason it drains the battery so I have replaced it, but would like to find out if it would be a simple fix. I searched all over and found other Sony model head units where doing the same thing. I have never had any head unit cause this problem in all the head units I have used, so this is new to me.
oldspark 
Gold - Posts: 4,913
Gold spacespace
Joined: November 03, 2008
Location: Australia
Posted: September 28, 2014 at 11:57 AM / IP Logged  
Do you have the switched/IGN+12V to constant (to battery +12V)?
That's how I always wired mine until my last Alpine with USB etc which draws 120mA when both const & switched are +12V.
(I solved it by using IGN +12V via a diode to switch a relay to connect battery +12V to its IGN +12V. I also connected the Alpine's remote (for amps and antenna amps etc) via a diode to the same relay so once on it would remain on until turned off via the faceplate. I'll be adding an DP3T (or SP3T??) switch to have it behave like a normal HU (prevent the remote from holding it on) else stay on or bypass IGN altogether.)
efx26 
Copper - Posts: 64
Copper spacespace
Joined: July 09, 2007
Posted: September 28, 2014 at 12:45 PM / IP Logged  
Fortunately no, they were correct, but I did test them the other way around and found the memory to get lost every time I took the power off the constant 12 volts. Meaning I plugged both constant and ign to the acc to basically take power only when the key was on. I did this to check, sure it worked but I had to redo the memory each time and this was the only way to keep it from draining, but wasn't going to work. basically mimicking what you mentioned I think, minus the diode. I didn't have an amp on it so that was never used until I replaced the unit and added an amp as the new unit suck without it. In short I would like to keep it working with just the ignition like any other radio without draining the battery of course, but I have no idea what would be causing that inside the head unit. I sure would like to find out.
Here's a video that I think should help show this drain a bit more...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_BsYaEmi80&list=UUbdDdMokroaAIVw7q30G9Xg
oldspark wrote:
Do you have the switched/IGN+12V to constant (to battery +12V)?
That's how I always wired mine until my last Alpine with USB etc which draws 120mA when both const & switched are +12V.
(I solved it by using IGN +12V via a diode to switch a relay to connect battery +12V to its IGN +12V. I also connected the Alpine's remote (for amps and antenna amps etc) via a diode to the same relay so once on it would remain on until turned off via the faceplate. I'll be adding an DP3T (or SP3T??) switch to have it behave like a normal HU (prevent the remote from holding it on) else stay on or bypass IGN altogether.)
oldspark 
Gold - Posts: 4,913
Gold spacespace
Joined: November 03, 2008
Location: Australia
Posted: September 28, 2014 at 2:18 PM / IP Logged  
It looks as if your memory draw is low and that's all that matters. Even if it were 10mA it should take several days to flatten the battery - probably at least one week. (Some alternators take more than 10mA.)
It seems like some intermittent fault on the constant circuit...
You mounting screws aren't too long?
Hopefully others may know something.
efx26 
Copper - Posts: 64
Copper spacespace
Joined: July 09, 2007
Posted: September 28, 2014 at 2:54 PM / IP Logged  
Yes, that's what I thought too, but two days or three days without running and that's all it took for the car not to start. It wasn't completely depleted, but enough to not let me start the car. I haven't taken a closer look at the stereo but that will be the next thing. It did work fine for over a year so I don't know what happened if anything. I use the same car bolts for the ground and it's fine on the new head unit too. So I haven't made my own hole for the ground, or at least I can't remember now. Even if I did the new unit is fine in the same place so I really don't think that would do that. I'm assuming that's what you mean for the mounting as the unit just slides into the bracket. Funny you mentioned screws. I just bought some self tapping screws but used them for the new amp not this and all that new setup is working fine.
So yes I guess if I find anything weird on the unit itself I'll update, but if anyone has a more in-depth electronics background maybe they can let us know.
oldspark wrote:
It looks as if your memory draw is low and that's all that matters. Even if it were 10mA it should take several days to flatten the battery - probably at least one week. (Some alternators take more than 10mA.)
It seems like some intermittent fault on the constant circuit...
You mounting screws aren't too long?
Hopefully others may know something.
oldspark 
Gold - Posts: 4,913
Gold spacespace
Joined: November 03, 2008
Location: Australia
Posted: September 28, 2014 at 7:28 PM / IP Logged  
It sounds more like a battery problem if nothing has changed (for over a year).
As batteries age and lose capacity even the smallest drain can have a huge effect on battery depletion.
The capacity drop otherwise often goes unnoticed until the engine requires a longer than usual cranking time. (That's when you find out how remote else how harried you are.)
Isolate the HU & amp and monitor the battery voltage.
If it seems ok, repeat with a small load - a 20mA LED or 2-3W bulbs etc...
Or have the battery tested.
efx26 
Copper - Posts: 64
Copper spacespace
Joined: July 09, 2007
Posted: September 28, 2014 at 9:31 PM / IP Logged  
You're absolutely correct. After the battery got depleted, it seems not the same any more. I did end up finally taking it out and recharging it for a few hours after I took out the head unit. I also tested it and got about 50% I think it was, so I have been checking the voltage on it when I go to the car since I am not driving much. So far it's still working, but only time will. I'm hoping to get a bit more time now that it's not discharging like it was with the unit. I would still like to get that draining stopped on the head unit if possible too. As you saw on the video, the other unit simply didn't have it and they were both bought about the same time if I remember correctly. The amp wasn't not installed in the car with the Sony unit. The new head unit has it now and I have no problems starting the car or draining the battery, but I'm still checking it anyway.
oldspark wrote:
It sounds more like a battery problem if nothing has changed (for over a year).
As batteries age and lose capacity even the smallest drain can have a huge effect on battery depletion.
The capacity drop otherwise often goes unnoticed until the engine requires a longer than usual cranking time. (That's when you find out how remote else how harried you are.)
Isolate the HU & amp and monitor the battery voltage.
If it seems ok, repeat with a small load - a 20mA LED or 2-3W bulbs etc...
Or have the battery tested.
oldspark 
Gold - Posts: 4,913
Gold spacespace
Joined: November 03, 2008
Location: Australia
Posted: September 28, 2014 at 10:02 PM / IP Logged  
Oops - I didn't view the vid that long... I saw the low current on the constant but stopped watching after the combined constant and ACC draw (irrelevant) and test light.   
But you describe an aged or damaged battery. Excluding the original bedding in phase, every discharge ages (damages) the battery. The overall battery life is a combination of temperature; frequency of discharge & number of cycles; depth of discharge; delay to recharge after discharge; time of (float) charge; and current magnitude.
A new battery may recover quite well from an excessive discharge (like a TOTAL flattening) whereas older batteries might not recover from "small" discharges (especially if not immediately recharged).
And AGM batteries will usually not recover from excess discharges (immediate recharge is required if very deep).
If you have a drain, the vehicle should be started at weekly intervals else battery externally charged. (Keeping on float is often the best for rarely used vehicles with wet cells.)
Check too that the voltage at the battery when charging is ~14.2V (max 14.4V). That might be at above idle speeds.
Lower than that is usually too low. Tho batteries will recharge with less than 14V, it isn't enough to "maintain" the battery. (In theory 13.8V charges a battery fully but it is not high enough for good battery life.)
But 10mA or 20mA is nothing. Tho yesterday I read how vehicles should handle a 750mA or even 1A drain (I disagree) for easily a week (I strongly disagree), IMO the <20mA your constant seemed to indicate should be fine for a week if not more.   It's when you leave some light on - eg 5W => ~0.5A = 500mA that you worry after a day or 2.
efx26 
Copper - Posts: 64
Copper spacespace
Joined: July 09, 2007
Posted: September 28, 2014 at 10:43 PM / IP Logged  
Yup, my current battery is an AGM battery. Frankly, I'm not impressed with AGM batteries so far. Mine just doesn't seem to want to last, not to mention these other little things that came up. I guess it could have been a bit of both and it's hard to tell since I finally got all that sorted out. Now I'm just focusing on the battery so we'll see if I have to change it sooner rather than later. I only use one battery for the car, with radio, one amp and a set of components, so nothing crazy in my install(s). I like to keep things simple as much as possible.
oldspark wrote:
Oops - I didn't view the vid that long... I saw the low current on the constant but stopped watching after the combined constant and ACC draw (irrelevant) and test light.   
But you describe an aged or damaged battery. Excluding the original bedding in phase, every discharge ages (damages) the battery. The overall battery life is a combination of temperature; frequency of discharge & number of cycles; depth of discharge; delay to recharge after discharge; time of (float) charge; and current magnitude.
A new battery may recover quite well from an excessive discharge (like a TOTAL flattening) whereas older batteries might not recover from "small" discharges (especially if not immediately recharged).
And AGM batteries will usually not recover from excess discharges (immediate recharge is required if very deep).
If you have a drain, the vehicle should be started at weekly intervals else battery externally charged. (Keeping on float is often the best for rarely used vehicles with wet cells.)
Check too that the voltage at the battery when charging is ~14.2V (max 14.4V). That might be at above idle speeds.
Lower than that is usually too low. Tho batteries will recharge with less than 14V, it isn't enough to "maintain" the battery. (In theory 13.8V charges a battery fully but it is not high enough for good battery life.)
But 10mA or 20mA is nothing. Tho yesterday I read how vehicles should handle a 750mA or even 1A drain (I disagree) for easily a week (I strongly disagree), IMO the <20mA your constant seemed to indicate should be fine for a week if not more.   It's when you leave some light on - eg 5W => ~0.5A = 500mA that you worry after a day or 2.
oldspark 
Gold - Posts: 4,913
Gold spacespace
Joined: November 03, 2008
Location: Australia
Posted: September 28, 2014 at 11:43 PM / IP Logged  
AGMs are good but a lot of people think they are "better" than wet cells and that depends so much on the application.
AGMs are popular in vintage vehicles - those that are not used for months at a time (and have no parasitic drains) - where you can crank away after 12 months whereas a wet cell would be long dead.
AGMs give good current but they do not like doing it, hence why you are better off with a wetcell for cranking and audio etc unless the AGM is upsized (compared to the wet) else protected by a cap (eg, for BIG audio systems >~3kW) unless there are a few paralleled AGMs.
And whereas you can totally flatten a wet cell (like to 2V etc) and it may recover - especially if new - go below ~10.6V whilst discharging or say 11.5V - 12.0V open circuit on an AGM and thereafter its best success will be as a door stop.
From an electrical abuse POV (over voltage, over current, & delay to recharge) AGMs are far weaker than wet cells.
In my circles people retain wet cells for crankers and use AGMs as required for secondaries. Many use a wet cell in preference as a secondary for normal use if they can mount them conveniently - eg, in the engine bay. But if internal and non-vented, then AGM it is. And AGM for negative G-force drivers or long stayers.
If you are using your AGM as you cranker then I'm not surprised you aren't happy with it - especially if it has parasitic draws. Or if it's an Optima sony head unit discharging battery -- posted image..   
An AGM as a secondary with a primary wetcell for cranking - with automated isolator of course - now that's a different proposition, and how it should be (again, unless the AGM is happy with the cranking current).
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