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2011 honda accord lx-s remote start


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misturnice 
Member - Posts: 31
Member spacespace
Joined: June 01, 2014
Location: New York, United States
Posted: November 10, 2014 at 11:43 AM / IP Logged  
I have a 2011 Honda Accord LX-S that I wish to install a remote start into
I looked up a relatively inexpensive remote start - Avital 4103LX
and found a bypass - DEI DBALL2
If you have a better alternative (not looking for the most expensive remote start, just a decent remote start) better bang for your buck.
My question is the bypass part - how would I program it, change settings (does it come with software, do I have to get any accessories to program it)? Or is it pre-programmed, and ready to go once I wire everything up.
Also if anyone can provide me with what are the necessary connections needed to be made given the Remote start and bypass I listed. From the posts I've seen, some people find ways to use less wires, more wires, connect it different ways, I just want a concrete method of installation.
Any help would be great.
misturnice
kreg357 
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Platinum spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Electrical Theory. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Security and Convenience. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: January 30, 2009
Location: Pennsylvania, United States
Posted: November 10, 2014 at 8:16 PM / IP Logged  
The Avital 4103 and the DB-ALL2 is a pretty cost effective way to add R/S & keyless entry to that vehicle.   The 4103 can handle all the
ignition circuits without any additional relays. You should be able to find an on-line dealer that will flash the correct firmware on to the
DB-ALL2 prior to shipment. There might be a small additional fee for this but it is less expensive than buying the XKLoader2 USB cable.
There is a full 4103 install guide in the Downloads Section and the DB-ALL2 w/Honda56 firmware install guide is available at the XPressKit
WEB site.
The only possible "gotcha" would be switching the Avital 4103's Data port over to DBI D2D from ESP, assuming you decide to go with D2D.
Other than that, it is a pretty straight forward install.
Soldering is fun!
misturnice 
Member - Posts: 31
Member spacespace
Joined: June 01, 2014
Location: New York, United States
Posted: November 12, 2014 at 11:12 AM / IP Logged  
Thank you for your reply.
I have been reading up on bypasses and it seems the general consensus is DBALL2 is not as good as idatalink due to buggy installs.
If I were to go with idatalink, the spec sheets show exactly all the connections I need to make; and leaves myself with about a handful of wires needed to connect to the vehicle.
The biggest question is the differences between the idatalink hardware - ADS ALCA is the one that is universal to almost all cars - is this the one that I want; and what is the differences or adavantages of the other bypasses offered by idatalink.
Lastly, a big question I have is the concern of people saying they would rather wire it Wire to Wire, over Data to Data? What is that specifically, and how would that differ between the two. I assume the method offered in the installation guides on idatalink and dball are all D2D rather than Wire 2 Wire?
Pros and cons of either, and how do they differ (what do I actually use on the bypass, and what exactly do I connect to the car) etc.
Sorry if these questions have been answered, but navigating the site is a learning curve.
Thanks again!
misturnice
misturnice 
Member - Posts: 31
Member spacespace
Joined: June 01, 2014
Location: New York, United States
Posted: November 12, 2014 at 11:18 AM / IP Logged  
Also when you state -
The only possible "gotcha" would be switching the Avital 4103's Data port over to DBI D2D from ESP, assuming you decide to go with D2D.
Other than that, it is a pretty straight forward install.
What is ESP? and what would the process be to switch to D2D? This might be answered if I understood what D2D connections are and what W2W connections are, and how they would differ in the same application. Thanks again!
misturnice
misturnice 
Member - Posts: 31
Member spacespace
Joined: June 01, 2014
Location: New York, United States
Posted: November 12, 2014 at 12:15 PM / IP Logged  
Looking at the install diagram of the idatalink - compared to the remote start.
There are dashed black lines stating - Not required in data mode (1-way) and solid red lines (not required in data mode (2 way)
What is the difference between the two and what is really needed.
What is E-Brake Status (-) - idatalink
when the remote start only has (-) neutral safety switch input
What is Disarm (-) output?
trunk (-) output?
12V(+) for the idatalink - does that go to both Reds +(30 A) High Current 12V Input?
There is a ground for both remote start and idatalink
however, GWR(-) is not shown on the remote start side
Also, let's say the remote start did not come with;
right sliding door or tailgate window (-) output
Left sliding door (-) output
Disarm (-) output
GWR (-)
What do I do with those? Do I leave them unconnected?
Lastly,
There are a bunch of heavy wires not connected from remote start to bypass; such as Output to ignition circuit, output to start circuit, output to accessory circuit, programmable output for accessory or ignition?
Should I go soley on the idatalink data sheet and connect only what I have on the remote start side? Or if it's missing do I have to find it in the car, and hardwire it to the bypass side/remote start side?
I'm a bit lost with some remote starts having less functionality.
misturnice
kreg357 
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Platinum spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Electrical Theory. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Security and Convenience. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: January 30, 2009
Location: Pennsylvania, United States
Posted: November 12, 2014 at 7:07 PM / IP Logged  

OK, I'll try to answer in order.

The DB-ALL2 is getting better or so I've been told.  I started with ADS iDatalink products when they first came out

and haven't seen a need to switch.  ( I have used and had good results with Fortin products, too.)

The ADS AL-CA flashed with ADS-AL(DL)-HA3 is nice in the fact that it has a separate Disarm input, instead of

doing a "Unlock before and Lock after".  I believe that the DB-ALL2 handles the disarm slightly differently with
their Smart OEM Alarm function.  Your main concern is getting the bypass module flashed with the correct
firmware.  You can find "on-line sellers" that will do this for you prior to shipment.  Doing it yourself means
buying the specific cable ( XKLoader2 for the DB-ALL2, FlashLink cable for Fortin or ADS USB cable for iDatalink ).
Additionally you will need to register with iDatalink as an authorized dealer for WEB site access to the firmware
download area. 

W2W vs D2D.  Talk about a learning curve...  W2W is easy.  You just make the connections between the bypass

module and the remote starter as shown.  Just wire to wire.  With your install application, there will be some
connections that are not needed.  The Avital 4103 has no alarm functions, so the Door and Trunk Status is not
needed.  Same for the E-Brake, not needed for an auto trans install.  The Hood Status will only be suupplied by
the bypass module if the vehicle has a factory installed hood pin, otherwise use the kit supplied hood pin.  Hood
Status is important so make sure it is there for the R/S to use.

D2D is passing all the info between the bypass module and the R/S via a 4 Pin harness.  Makes things neat and

saves time for the installer.  Here is where it gets complicated.  There are 3 different communication protocols in
use.  Directed has their own, DBI.  Fortin has their own, FlashLink.  ADS has their own, iDatalink.  If you plan on
using the Avital 4103, it uses the DEI DBI D2D protocol.  The DB-ALL2 uses this protocol.  The Fortin and ADS
bypass modules can be flashed with a version of the firmware that speaks DBI, also.  Confused yet?  Next we
come to 2 way and 1 way D2D.  Some R/S units can only handle 1 way D2D, info from the R/S to the bypass only.
The 4103 is OK with 2 way but the Compustar CM600-s is one way only.  Then we have "special" units that can
do 2 way but not the Tach Signal.  Still not confused?  As mentioned, the Avital 4103 is one of these special units
that has it's own peculiarities.  The D2D port is factory set to ESP for BitWriter interface use.  However, you want
to use it as a D2D bypass module port.  It isn't smart enough to switch itself, so you must manually switch it over
to DBI D2D.  Here are the steps :

To use as D2D mode follow the below steps:

1. Remove all power from the Avital R/S brain.
2. Make sure Avital's WHITE/ Blue activation wire is grounded.
3. Power the unit up. The system LED flashes for 5 seconds to confirm D2D mode change.
4. Remove the WHITE/ Blue wire from ground.  ( Do this cleanly, without pulsing the WHITE/ Blue wire.)

If you spend some time looking over and studying the DB-ALL2 install guide and compare it to the ADS DL HA3

install guide, you will notice a few things.  First the iDatalink guide only shows the bypass modules needed
connections.  The R/S still has some connections to the vehicle, like all those ignition wires.  They are mentioned
in the DB-ALL2 install guide.  Next is the solid, dashed and colored wires.  These designate W2W and D2D
differences.  Also notice that some supported functions can only be D2D with the DB-ALL2.  These is shown in
the Feature Chart.  Lucky for you, you are only doing a basic remote start install. 

My suggestion to you is make up a wire chart showing your proposed connection and post it for Forum Member

review.  Here is an example of a Avital 4113 with a Fortin EVO-ALL bypass module in W2W mode on a 2013 Caravan :
https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=134484

Soldering is fun!
misturnice 
Member - Posts: 31
Member spacespace
Joined: June 01, 2014
Location: New York, United States
Posted: November 12, 2014 at 9:12 PM / IP Logged  
I wrote down all the wires from the remote start, and the iDatalink and tried to connect them all together with what I have. Could you verify it for me?
Primary Harness (H1)
H1/1     Factory Alarm Disarm   ????
H1/2      Factory Rearm        ????
H1/3     (+) Ignition Out (To Alarm) ????
H1/4     (-) Activation Input   ????
H1/5     (-) Ground When Locked ???? where does this go
H1/6     (-) Horn Output        GREEN/ YELLOW (Green 42 pin plug)
H1/7     (-) Trunk Release Output orange (Green 42 pin plug)
H1/8     Ground chassis ground?
H1/9     (+/-) Light Flash        (is this parking lights?) (-) Gray Pin 11, 12 pin connector
Does the iDataLink deal with these connectors ^?
4-pin satellite harness diagram Is this the D2D 4 pin cable?
1     Status Output
2     (-) Accessory Output
3     (-) Starter Output
4     (-) Starter Output
Heavy Gauge Relay Wiring Diagram
1     (+) (30 AMP) Output to ignition circuit Blue Ignition Wire
2     (+) (30 AMP) Output to Starter Circuit Yellow Starter Wire
3     (+) (30 AMP) Output to Accessory Circuit Orange Accessory Wire
4     (+) (30 A) High Current 12 Input   White +12 Volt
5     (+) Programmable Output for Accessory or Ignition     Fuse with (+) Output to Accessory?
6     (+) (30A) High Current 12 V input   Fuse with White +12 Volt?
Are these wires always connected to the ignition system? Or does the bypass deal with these?
Door lock harness, 3-pin connector
1     (-) Unlock Output idatalink? Or white and Brown at same time, diode isolate
2     Not used
3     (-) Lock Output idatalink? Or Orange      Switch in driver door
Remote Start Harness (H2) wiring diagram
H2/1      (-) Neutral Safety Switch Input idatalink?     Lt Green at Parking brake switch
H2/2     Tachometer Input Wire   idatalink?     
H2/3     (+) Brake Switch Shutdown Wire     idatalink?     Green at Brake Switch
H2/4     (-) Hood Pin Switch Shutdown Wire     idatalink?     
H2/5     (-) 200mA 2nd Status/Rear Defogger Output
iDataLink states
WHITE/ Black (-) output – connect to driver door pin to turn off head lamps on vehicles equipped with auto headlights??
White – Ground connect to ground
BROWN / Red Can H CanH – pin 4 key cylinder
BROWN / Yellow Can L CanL – pin 3 key cylinder
ORANGE / Black – Key Data     Data – pin 6 key cylinder
Pink – Ignition (+) Ignition (+) – pin 2
Does this mean, the primary wiring Heavy Gauge wires don’t need to be connected?
How do I know which wires need to be connected to the car, and which wires need to be connected to the idatalink?
Overall I’m confused, on what exactly needs to be connected where.
To help break it down for me, should I do Data 2 Data? which is the use of only the Data cable and no additional connections between the R/S and bypass << is that correct?
Is wire to wire, connecting everything between the Remote starter and bypass, without the use of Data mode < or do I have to connect all the wires between the R/S and the bypass along with the data cable?
Or can I choose to connect the R/S to wires in the car, and connect the Data cable to the R/S and bypass?
Could you start with the basics of what should always be connected to what? - or based off my scenario?
What wires are always connected to the vehicle from the Remote start? i.e. the Ground, +12V, Starter, Accessory, Accessory 2, Ignition? <
iDataLink shows me connections to make from the bypass to the car, so that I understand.
Lets say I connect the data cable between the remote start and bypass, what wires do I need to wire together?; can I wire all the ones that match together, and still leave the data cable?
Can I leave the data cable out, and connect straight bypass to remote start? Can I connect remote start wires straight to the car? How does the bypass work (or what has to be connected for it to work?)
I have the XpressKit wiring diagram in front of me, as well as the iDataLink, and not all of the connections are the same.
Such as parking lights connected in Dball and not idatalink.
data cable connection between the DBALL and R/S is not present, however is present in idatalink.
ignition is connected to bypass for idatalink.
dball states connecting the remote start gorund 12V starter accessory ignition to the car, however idatalink as none of those connected to the car.
Thank you for your time, and sorry for the redundant questions. I promise I'm not incompetent just a bit confused, and would love to have the concept understood before purchasing everything
misturnice
kreg357 
Platinum - Posts: 7,781
Platinum spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Electrical Theory. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Security and Convenience. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: January 30, 2009
Location: Pennsylvania, United States
Posted: November 12, 2014 at 9:51 PM / IP Logged  

First, try to get a FLCAN bypass module flashed with FLC-AL(DL)-HA3 firmware.  Here is a link to the install guide :

http://cdncontent2.idatalink.com/corporate/Content/Manuals/DL-HA3/FLC-AL(DL)-HA3-EN_20141031.pdf 
The FLCAN is an ADS AL-CA bypass module OEM'd by Audiovox with the DBI protocol D2D firmware flashed on it with
the correct D2D harness included with the wire harnesses.  It will save you some headaches doing it this way. 

Here is the wiring if you are going to go D2D :

Primary Harness (H1)

H1/1     Factory Alarm Disarm   handled by D2D        
H1/2      Factory Rearm          handled by D2D
H1/3     (+) Ignition Out (To Alarm)      not used
H1/4     (-) Activation Input     not used
H1/5     (-) Ground When Locked        not used
H1/6     (-) Horn Output           GREEN/ YELLOW @ driver dash fuse box, lt. green 33 pin plug (F), pin 23
H1/7     (-) Trunk Release Output         handled by D2D ( only works while engine is off )
H1/8     Ground           chassis ground
H1/9     (+/-) Light Flash  set jumper to (-)       (-) Gray Pin 11, 12 pin connector @ headlight switch

4-pin satellite harness diagram

1     Status Output      handled by D2D
2     (-) Accessory Output        not used
3     (-) Starter Output not used
4     (-) Starter Output not used

Heavy Gauge Relay Wiring Diagram

1     (+) (30 AMP) Output to ignition circuit    Blue Ignition Wire @ main ignition switch harness
2     (+) (30 AMP) Output to Starter Circuit    Yellow Starter Wire @ main ignition switch harness
3     (+) (30 AMP) Output to Accessory Circuit          Orange Accessory Wire @ main ignition switch harness
4     (+) (30 A) High Current 12 Input   White +12 Volt @ main ignition switch harness
5     (+) Programmable Output for Acc or Ign            Red Accessory2 wire  *** Program viper to Flex Relay = ACC2
6     (+) (30A) High Current 12 V input           White +12 Volt @ main ignition switch harness

Door lock harness, 3-pin connector

1     (-) Unlock Output   handled by D2D
2     Not used
3     (-) Lock Output      handled by D2D

Remote Start Harness (H2) wiring diagram

H2/1      (-) Neutral Safety Switch Input      Chassis Ground if auto trans
H2/2     Tachometer Input Wire      handled by D2D 
H2/3     (+) Brake Switch Shutdown Wire    handled by D2D
H2/4     (-) Hood Pin Switch Shutdown Wire handled by D2D  ** if car has factory hood pin
H2/5     (-) 200mA 2nd Status/Rear Defog Out       not used

iDataLink FLCAN

WHITE/ Black (-) output – connect to driver door pin to turn off head lamps on vehicles equipped with auto headlights
White – Ground   connect to ground          Does your Accord have Auto Headlights?
BROWN / Red Can H          CanH – pin 4 key cylinder
BROWN / Yellow Can L      CanL – pin 3 key cylinder
ORANGE / Black – Key Data          Data – pin 6 key cylinder
Pink – Ignition (+)           Ignition (+) – pin 2
D2D harness to 4103 D2D port

Besides making the necessary programming changes to the Viper noted above, you must follow the FLCAN guide

to select Data Installation Mode and then program the module to the car.  See Page 8 of the guide linked above.

Soldering is fun!
misturnice 
Member - Posts: 31
Member spacespace
Joined: June 01, 2014
Location: New York, United States
Posted: November 12, 2014 at 10:06 PM / IP Logged  
Thanks for the great information. Out of curiosity, how were you to decide on a FLCAN over a ADS ALCA.
I'm curious because I would like to learn the procedure to do this on a variety of other cars, and what to look for when choosing components. how would I know which bypass module to use with different cars, such as my honda civic 07 Auto, Mitsubishi lancer 08 auto, 2014 Subaru forester 4cyl auto, etc. I was hoping to be able to use understand a single bypass which would be universal to all - but if you could educate me on how to choose the correct bypass, that works as well.
As for the program viper to Flex Relay = ACC2 < where is this programming taking place?
And I believe the accord has auto headlights (this is my friend's car I'll be installing on) If it does, do you know the wire location for this? And if it doesn't have auto headlights, do I leave it unconnected?
Ultimately looking at the list you have provided, everything is connected D2D, where the bypass is concerned. And where additional connections such as trunk pop, horns, headlights, the remote start connects straight to the vehicle?
misturnice
kreg357 
Platinum - Posts: 7,781
Platinum spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Electrical Theory. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Security and Convenience. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: January 30, 2009
Location: Pennsylvania, United States
Posted: November 12, 2014 at 10:07 PM / IP Logged  

Answers :

Does this mean, the primary wiring Heavy Gauge wires don’t need to be connected?

Absolutely not.  They must be connected.  iDatalink just assumed the installer knew this.

How do I know which wires need to be connected to the car, and which wires need to be connected to the idatalink?

Follow the install guide and the chart I supplied.

To help break it down for me, should I do Data 2 Data? which is the use of only the Data cable and no additional connections between the R/S and bypass << is that correct?

I would try going D2D.  If it doesn't work properly, you can switch to W2W.

Is wire to wire, connecting everything between the Remote starter and bypass, without the use of Data mode < or do I have to connect all the wires between the R/S and the bypass along with the data cable?

Yes, W2W has all the necessary dashed wires hardwired between the modules.  As shown in the Caravan Pictorial.

Or can I choose to connect the R/S to wires in the car, and connect the Data cable to the R/S and bypass?

This is the way it must be done.  Some R/S wires go to the car, the D2D harness allows the R/S to communicate with
the bypass and the bypass has wire connections to the car.

Could you start with the basics of what should always be connected to what? - or based off my scenario?

Follow the above chart.

What wires are always connected to the vehicle from the Remote start? i.e. the Ground, +12V, Starter, Accessory, Accessory 2, Ignition? <

Depends on the R/S used, the bypass used and the vehicle.

iDataLink shows me connections to make from the bypass to the car, so that I understand.

Yes, but only the connections it's concerned about.  The DB-ALL2 diagram shows all the connections.

Lets say I connect the data cable between the remote start and bypass, what wires do I need to wire together?; can I wire all the ones that match together, and still leave the data cable?

Follow the above wire guide.

Can I leave the data cable out, and connect straight bypass to remote start? Can I connect remote start wires straight to the car? How does the bypass work (or what has to be connected for it to work?)

Yes, that is W2W mode.  If you decide to go with W2W, the above chart is N.G.  All of the "handled by D2D" wires must
be hardwired between the R/S and the bypass.

I have the XpressKit wiring diagram in front of me, as well as the iDataLink, and not all of the connections are the same.

True, that was mentioned.  Different companies do things differently.

Such as parking lights connected in Dball and not idatalink. 

Yes, but the Parking Light connection is from the R/S to the car.  The bypass has nothing to do with that connection.

data cable connection between the DBALL and R/S is not present, however is present in idatalink.

Just different ways of showing the setup.
 
ignition is connected to bypass for idatalink.
Only Starter, if in W2W mode.  DB-ALL2 handles it differently.

dball states connecting the remote start gorund 12V starter accessory ignition to the car, however idatalink as none of those connected to the car.

True, DB-ALL2 gives a more complete picture of the necessary connections while iDatalink is only concerned &
showing the connections it needs / uses.

Soldering is fun!
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