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viper 5901, xk05 remote start fails


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calbearz24 
Member - Posts: 2
Member spacespace
Joined: September 13, 2011
Location: California, United States
Posted: September 13, 2011 at 2:25 AM / IP Logged  
I had a Viper 5901 installed on my 2011 Honda Accord EX-L V6 Coupe and the Viper-certified installer used an XK05 bypass. Remote start with the first XK05 worked for two days and then stopped. A re-flash of the XK05 yielded similar results - works for about 48 hours and then stops. The installer consulted with Viper and I also asked a question on the XK05 page at xpresskit.com and both replies were that the XK05 is the right module to use with the Accord. So the installer tried a new XK05 unit, which proceeded to fail the evening after it was installed (~8 hours). I know the bypass no longer worked in all three cases as I see the green key icon for the immobilizer flash on when the starter engages but fails to start and then simply putting the key in the ignition without turning it to I or II allows remote start to succeed.
Everything else with the 5901 works - arm/disarm, trunk pop, silent arm/disarm, everything else I've tried is fine. The installer suggested waiting for a firmware update for the XK05 but that hasn't happened since 2008, so I'm not holding my breath. I believe they used PKH4 3.01 firmware.
One difference between the 2011 EX-L V6 Coupe and older Accords in the same generation is that it added memory seats for drivers/keys 1 and 2. I found a post about the PKH34 working for the Accord Crosstour suggesting that the 2011 coupe may also need PKH34 because it has memory seats like the Crosstour. Should I ask the installer to try the PKH34 instead?
Has anyone had success with remote start on the 2011 Accord EX-L Coupe with memory seats? Which bypass did you use? I posted a similar question on some Honda forums but couldn't find anyone who has remote start working on an Accord with memory seats. One user suggested DBALL with the 5901 but that's on a 2010 Coupe and others have used DBALL or PKALL, but those cases are all without memory seats. Please help!
Chris Luongo 
Platinum - Posts: 3,751
Platinum spaceThis member consistently provides reliable informationspace
Joined: May 21, 2002
Location: Massachusetts, United States
Posted: September 13, 2011 at 7:36 AM / IP Logged  
As far as I know, the 2008-2011 Accords are all the same.
I've only used the HONDA-SL-3 from Fortin, and the ADS-TB-SLHA from ADS (iDatalink).
I haven't used an XK05 on any late-model Honda.
I just use whatever my employer provides...so that's why.
Another option that's more product money but less labor, is to use a full-feature module like FLCAN, ADS-ALCA, DB-ALL, EVO-ALL ......... the module costs more, but it does door locks, tach, brake..... basically means the installer doesn't have to run wires in the door or underhood.
Anyway, Honda's immobilizer hasn't changed very much from year to year or car to car. The fact that your car is a coupe, is a 2011, and has memory seats should have nothing to do with it..... those same modules listed above would work on a Civic, CR-V, Pilot, whatever.
Do you know how your XK05 is connected to the remote starter? The installer can do one of two things: Hardwire constant power, ground, and "ground-when-running" which is the signal the remote starter puts out to command the XK05 to turn on............or, there's a "data-to-data" cable included with the XK05 that plugs right into the remote starter, making for a neat, clean installation, as well as saving time.
Data-to-data works very well when it works, but it sometimes fails, and the manufacturers fail even worse at providing a solution.
Here's what you can do.
Look under the dash (without disturbing or cutting into the installer's work), and find the XK05.
Activate the remote starter, and you'll see that the red LED on the XK05 lights up. Kill the remote starter (hit the brake), and a few seconds later, the LED goes out.
Next time the system fails, go look at the XK05 again while activating the remote starter.
If the XK05 still lights up when it doesn't work, and the manufacturer is incapable of providing a solution, it may be time to pull it and put in something else. The XK05 is still in production, but it must be a nearly ten year old design by now.
If, on the other hand, the XK05 doesn't light up anymore, AND it's connected data-to-data, you might have some luck by dumping the cable and hardwiring it.
calbearz24 
Member - Posts: 2
Member spacespace
Joined: September 13, 2011
Location: California, United States
Posted: September 15, 2011 at 1:17 AM / IP Logged  
Thanks for taking the time to answer, Chris. I really appreciate it. My name is Chris too!
I had some time tonight so I removed the dash and the covers of the steering column and saw the 5901 brain and the 506T glass break sensor (confirmed by reading the model number on the side of the box), but I couldn't figure out where the XK05 is located. I tried remote starting while looking up into the bottom of the dash and didn't see a red LED turn on. Then I went ahead and turned off all the lights in the garage and the car, hoping to see some kind of red light when remote starting, but I didn't. I had the upper steering column cover folded back so I could see everything underneath it, too. Could this mean that the XK05 doesn't have any power at all?
I don't know if it's connected data-to-data or hardwired.
I saw that other owners of Accords of the same generation successfully used the DB-ALL. Searching the forums I frequent for "XK05" yielded just my own posts about it, so I don't think anyone else has used it. Should I go ahead and ask for the DB-ALL bypass module instead?
2011 Honda Accord EX-L V6 Coupe w/Viper 5901
Chris Luongo 
Platinum - Posts: 3,751
Platinum spaceThis member consistently provides reliable informationspace
Joined: May 21, 2002
Location: Massachusetts, United States
Posted: September 15, 2011 at 7:31 AM / IP Logged  
Hmm.
Well, if you have both steering column covers off, look at the aftermarket wiring that's going there.
You should have a bunch of thick wires from the Viper, going to some thick Honda wires---those are for the constant, ignition, accessory, and starter circuits for the remote starter.
They probably also have a smaller white wire running up there to the Honda's negative-trigger parking light wire, and maybe a brown wire going to the horn if they hooked that up.
So, now look at the keyhole where you put your ignition key. There's a black module around the keyhole with two plugs. The XK05 (or any other brand bypass) should be spliced into one of the wires (immobilizer data) at one of those two plugs.
Maybe you can follow the wire down from there. Also, if it helps, the XK05 has the same wire harness as all the other XK modules: brown, red, black, green, orange, purple, PURPLE / white, blue.....maybe something else.
The data wire from the XK05 might not reach all the way up to the steering column, so the installer may have extended it with another piece of wire.
Also, if you look at all the connectors on your Viper brain, I believe that the only two connectors where the wiring would be covered by a black sheath would be the antenna cable, and the data-to-data cable. All other wires are exposed (although the installer may have wrapped them in tape). So, if you can get to the brain, see how many sheath-covered cables are coming out of it.....that might give you an idea of whether or not they used data-to-data.
Some installers might also choose to tape or zip-tie the XK05 right onto the Viper brain, and then extend the neceesary wire(s) to reach the steering column. So try to turn the brain around or look behind it.
As far as your other question.....I haven't used a DB-ALL yet but I'm sure it's fine.
I've mostly used the HONDA-SL-3 as it's inexpensive, and comes in a small bag and therefore takes very little space in my car. (I work on the road, going to car dealerships.)
The ADS TBSLHA is also good. Nicer construction than the Fortin piece, with locking connectors.
The DB-ALL is quite a bit more expensive....I'm not sure if you'll have to fight to get your installer to use it without wanting to charge you.
On the other hand, I think I've heard of people using the XK05 on Honda without trouble.
I guess what I'm trying to say is hopefully your installer is competent enough to troubleshoot his work to determine what is the problem. (Remote starter, car, installation, bypass module---he has to narrow it down.)
If it were me, I'd try to troubleshoot and identify first, so I could fix it right and the customer wouldn't be back.
On the other hand, just the act of changing to another bypass module means he'll have to re-do some of his connections, and by sheer dumb luck might accidentally fix something that wasn't right before.

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