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 Topic: uses for oscilloscope around the shop.
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carn723
Joined: January 03, 2005
Location:
United States
Posts: 4 |
| Posted: February 02, 2010 at 12:12 AM - IP Logged |
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I have been interested in purchasing a oscilloscope for setting amplifier gains and checking highest unclipped audio out of pre-amps. They can be a little expensive and was interested to see if there where any other great uses for such a tool that will help validate the price for more then just the 2 task I have listed.
Thanks |
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oldspark
Joined: November 03, 2008
Location:
Australia
Posts: 1,117 |
| Posted: February 02, 2010 at 12:50 AM - IP Logged |
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Maybe you are better off using a PC sound card - there are a few neat solutions around. (Great if you have a PC or laptop anyhow.)
There are also kits that interface to TVs or monitors....
The above are fine for audio frequencies, sometimes higher.
But oscilloscopes are good for anything involving an AC or transient waveforms.
Car ignitions including splug analysis, mains & power interference & distortion, multi-media fault diagnosis (TV, DVD etc).
But there are also various testers that can do the same - I recall seeing a clipping meter somewhere - not that that shows distortion (nor will an oscilloscope without a sinewave frequency generator).
And they aren't suited for all things - ie, you might pick distortion on a sine wave, but not an audio signal, nor be able to measure "how much".
I have a small (3"??) single trace CRO which is okay for that sort if stuff, but I only bought it 'cos it was cheap ~$100, and it was worth it for some car ignition investigations I was doing.
Otherwise a typical minimum spec is usually a 2-channel digital storage oscilloscope. But it all depends on what you want it for.
What sort of price are you considering?
Have a look at USB oscilloscopes too. |
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carn723
Joined: January 03, 2005
Location:
United States
Posts: 4 |
| Posted: February 02, 2010 at 2:35 AM - IP Logged |
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Thanks for the response, and you bring up some valid options that I have researched.
oldspark wrote:
Maybe you are better off using a PC sound card - there are a few neat solutions around. (Great if you have a PC or laptop anyhow.)
There are also kits that interface to TVs or monitors....
The above are fine for audio frequencies, sometimes higher. |
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I have found a couple sound card versions that use probes that go to a rca style input or converted to 3.5mm jack but the problem i found with those was the customized probes did not seem to have enough attenuation to prevent the volts from the amplifier from frying the sound card. That is if this is what you where referring to unless you meant a RTA program at which point I just haven't found a good way to use one of those programs since I typically don't do EQ setups for balancing the levels across the frequencies.
oldspark wrote:
| But there are also various testers that can do the same - I recall seeing a clipping meter somewhere - not that that shows distortion (nor will an oscilloscope without a sinewave frequency generator). |
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My plans where to use a test cd with a refrence sine wave for finding the maximum uncliped level and a test tone at 40Hz -5db for setting the gains on a amplifier driving subs. The -5db tone is to account for some gain overlap since the test tone is unrealistic compared to characteristics of the audio from music. This would avoid the need for a sine wave generator and hopefully take the guess work out of just trying to view clipping on the audio signal.
oldspark wrote:
What sort of price are you considering?
Have a look at USB oscilloscopes too. |
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I thought about the USB versions but was worried I would be limiting myself by needing a laptop all the time and its just one more thing to have break down and make the entire tool useless seeing as the software issues could be more problematic compared to a hardware standalone tool. Just speculating though.
I have found a unit that was by Owon I believe normally cost $800-$900 but found it on sale for $600. Now keep in mind this is the absolute top of my price range and the more I think about it almost ridiculous to even consider for simple amp gain setups. That is what started this post was to try and see if I can find other uses that would justify going with a standalone unit or better quality ie bigger screen, broader range. If i cant find other uses for car audio setup/testing or general vehicle diagnoses like testing failing diodes in alternators by viewing floating ac current riding on the dc current eventually causing battery and audio problems.
It does seem to be turning into more of a wast of money for such a tool at this level of use and would probably start turning toward some of the smaller units like PPS10, HPS50, TPI440, or S2401 if all I could do is tune amps for now. |
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oldspark
Joined: November 03, 2008
Location:
Australia
Posts: 1,117 |
| Posted: February 02, 2010 at 4:04 AM - IP Logged |
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carn723 wrote:
| did not seem to have enough attenuation to prevent the volts from the amplifier from frying the sound card |
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So just a resistive divider - aka a voltage divider? Even a pot - say 10k value perhaps?
EG in English - in though a 9k resistor and out (to probe) and a 1k resistor from probe to ground (for both the signal/amp & oscilloscope). The output is 1/10th the input (1/(9+1) = 1/10).
And several hundred dollars does seem too much for such a trivial function! For that I'd be listening through headphones and a high-impedance amp instead!
If it pays you back quickly, then fine.
But normal hobbyists would certainly be looking at other uses first. Or hire one.
But try the voltage divider if that was the only issue. Pot ~$2. Existing soundcard & PC $free. Software seems to be free. |
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carn723
Joined: January 03, 2005
Location:
United States
Posts: 4 |
| Posted: February 12, 2010 at 7:39 PM - IP Logged |
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Yeah thanks for the suggestions, it just doesnt look like the tool would have enough uses to justify the price tag. Could get a couple usefull things in its place for the price. Thanks |
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calitech247
Joined: November 02, 2009
Location:
California,
United States
Posts: 41 |
| Posted: February 22, 2010 at 1:50 PM - IP Logged |
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I was window-shopping for a handheld digital oscilloscope myself on Google today. Came on here to get any suggestions and I found this post, and your right carn723, the tool doesn't have enough uses to justify the price tag. But since I am looking for a new DMM anyway I'm probably gonna settle on a handheld Oscilloscope/DMM and end up paying an arm and a leg for it. Somewhere between $300-700. Even though there will be many functions I will not use, looks like there's not much I can do about that. Hear this, a buddy of mine (also an Installer/Tech)bought a Modis from Snap-on recently for like 3 grand and all he seems to use it for is to take off engine and SRS lights. Some of this equipment is so sophisticated it can take a few courses just to learn how to use the thing. Here's a few meters I had in mind.....
DMM/Oscilloscope Functions:
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/72-8470&CAWELAID=304561678
http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/instek/oscilloscopes/gds-122.htm#00036612?ref=gbase
Without DMM functions:
http://stores.channeladvisor.com/mobiliashop/items/item.aspx?itemid=3355976 |
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carn723
Joined: January 03, 2005
Location:
United States
Posts: 4 |
| Posted: February 22, 2010 at 7:15 PM - IP Logged |
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calitech247 I have looked into all kind of tools as well as ones similar to your friend for clearing codes as well. I have also looked into a decent amount of DMM/Oscilloscopes and here are the ones that I have looked into. I have put links to view them but not saying this is the best place to purchase. I have just done quick google searches for this post and have found them all over during my research for all sorts of prices.
HDS1021M (Single Channel)
HDS1022M
HDS1022M-N (New Line)
ADL7103
TPI440 (You mentioned does'nt have DMM but I believe it does)
PPS10
HPS50
S2401
Tenma 72-6920
I do believe though at least for my purpose it seems logical to go the route others have suggested and use a computer version since I could use a already existing pc laptop and just plug in through usb the oscilloscope when needed. The other advantage I have found is there are some real good OBD scanners out there for use with a laptop that give you more options then a regular hand held scanner. I found some priced at $200 that interest me cause when I am ready I can purchase that as a add on to the laptop making it one tool that can be a oscilloscope/scan tool. I have also found those tools to offer add on plug-ins for the software that are sold separately that I can purchase to make the scan tool clear airbag and ABS lights on particular manufactures. It cost about $600-$900 by time you get all the plug-ins but I figured if I bought them as I needed them when running into problems I would spread the investment in the tool over a long period of time. I understand you need a DMM as well but for as much as I use the DMM I would rather buy a quality Fluke that will last a long time rather then one that is added in as a feature to a portable oscilloscope since they don't look that sophisticated. I have also had trouble on some of them finding any specifications that pertain to the actual DMM instead of the oscilloscope to make sure it has a decent refresh rate so your meter doesn't lag for quickly changing voltages. No one likes testing for any type of trigger when you have to wait for the meter to catch up to the trigger opening or closing itself. Hope this information helps and good luck on your purchase. |
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calitech247
Joined: November 02, 2009
Location:
California,
United States
Posts: 41 |
| Posted: March 17, 2010 at 5:29 PM - IP Logged |
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| Hey thanks for the info carn723, I'll take a better look at those links you posted when I get home. I would like to know more about an oscilloscope program that I can run off my laptop. As well as OBDI/II scanner programs, if they as efficient and lower in cost. I look more into that, but any suggestions would be great. |
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