2001 hyundai accent, alternator
Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Audio
Forum Discription: Car Stereos, Amplifiers, Crossovers, Processors, Speakers, Subwoofers, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=116956
Printed Date: June 09, 2024 at 6:58 AM
Topic: 2001 hyundai accent, alternator
Posted By: maxdaccent
Subject: 2001 hyundai accent, alternator
Date Posted: October 14, 2009 at 2:28 PM
Hi guys am a newbie to this site so bare with us ok ive got a 2001 hyundai accent which am currently running a 1000WATT RMS amp to my subs which both are 500WATT RMS plus im running a 4 channel amp which is 100WATT RMS PER channel so thats 400WATT RMS total so what im my car currently has a 90 amp alternator with a split charge system to run 2 dry cell batteries plus a 2.4 farad capacitor but when the cars running the voltage on the capacitor and the reading on one of the amps starts at 14volts but then goes down until about 11volts. So the question is do you think it would be best to upgrade the alternator to a high output one say likea 200amp one? and if so what fuse would i need to run from the positive battery termianl to the alternator as at the mo its a 100amp fuse for a 90 amp alternator. thanks
Replies:
Posted By: boxhead78
Date Posted: October 18, 2009 at 11:21 PM
no you don't have to but, you have to let your cap discharge first.then you recharge your cap before you hook your amp to it
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boxead78
Posted By: blackcivichatch
Date Posted: October 19, 2009 at 11:52 AM
boxhead78 wrote:
no you don't have to but, you have to let your cap discharge first.then you recharge your cap before you hook your amp to it
That made No sense. To answer your question, Yes. If your voltage is droppin below 12 volts, you do need to upgrade the alt. I wouldn't say you need something as big as a 200 amp... but something bigger than your 90 amp would help you a lot. Your extra batteries only help when your cars off and your cap only puts more strain on your alternator. ------------- UNLABELED Custom Car Club President
Posted By: tommy...
Date Posted: October 20, 2009 at 6:36 AM
So the big 3 first... then go from there...! Although the upgrade of the alternator is probably eminent....! You said bare with US... How many personalities do you have(schizophrenic)...? What size power wire do you have...?
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M.E.C.P & First-Class
Go slow and drink lots of water...Procrastinators' Unite...Tomorrow!
Posted By: tommy...
Date Posted: October 20, 2009 at 6:38 AM
Not sure what happened there......^ Its going down to 11v when playing at full listening volume and during long bass notes...?
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M.E.C.P & First-Class
Go slow and drink lots of water...Procrastinators' Unite...Tomorrow!
Posted By: t&t tech
Date Posted: October 20, 2009 at 5:45 PM
With tommy on this one, uprgrade big three cables, use at least two gauge cables, eliminate the cap, a 200 amp alternator would be great, all in all you have a load that would be almost equal to the capacity of the alternator!
Posted By: maxdaccent
Date Posted: October 22, 2009 at 3:04 PM
thanks for the replies guys, The power cable i have to answer one of those questions is 4AWG, ok i think i will have to do that as i must admit it seems to be a very good thing to do, but as ive asked too if i do get a bigger alternator say a 200 amp one what fuse would i use for it because at the moment its a 90 amp alternator with a 100amp fuse so would i have to get something like say a 210 amp fuse for a 200 amp alt ? let us know.
Posted By: t&t tech
Date Posted: October 22, 2009 at 4:04 PM
The alternator you have currently is 90amps, let's say your car's total draw at idle with all accesories powered add up to eighty amps, which leaves you an average of ten amps to play with, your system draw is a total of 1400 watts, which is equal to about 115 amps or so give or take, in total, hypothetically speaking you would have a draw of around 195 amps at peak, a 200amp alternator would be great, a 200amp fuse would be just fine also. Those figures are just on an average basis, they may actually vary, just trying to help you see it logically!
Posted By: maxdaccent
Date Posted: October 22, 2009 at 4:07 PM
to t&t tech thanks very much for the infomation i will try and see if im able to get a 200 amp alternator or a little bigger say 215 amp and the fuse should be of the same value or slightly higher?
Posted By: t&t tech
Date Posted: October 22, 2009 at 4:22 PM
200 amp will be fine! You can use a slightly bigger fuse!
Posted By: maxdaccent
Date Posted: October 24, 2009 at 8:21 AM
hi guys i would like to say somebody on my club forum posted this in response to me asking the same questions about uprating my alternator. i would check your wire on the car 1st b4 going high power or you will have problems with blowing ECU and fire.i use a 120amp b4 to power the ICE and almost killed myself with a dash fire am just a bit concerned about this comment would this only happen if the wiring hasnt been upgrated too (ie the BIG 3) and also if the fuse hasnt been upgrated to a greater value to go with the alternator?
Posted By: maxdaccent
Date Posted: October 24, 2009 at 5:21 PM
another question i would like to ask is im going to do the big three ugrade before i get a higher amp alt and was wondering can i leave the factory fuse in the fuse box and just connect the new wires up to that or do i have to upgrade the fuse holder and then put a new fuse in with the same value?
Posted By: t&t tech
Date Posted: October 24, 2009 at 6:35 PM
Personally i am an installer, but not too much into the audio side of things, but i will try to explain this as i see it. The upgrade you are performing has nothing to do with the actual power draw of the factory components of the vehicle, it's solely to facilitate audio purposes, so, you won't have to upgrade the main fuse of the factory fusebox, simply because there is no additional draw here, the car when fully powerd with all the accesories powered, (with the exception of the audio components) will still amount to the theoretic eighty amps, You will however have to fuse the new cables added accordingly! how would you fry an ecu with a bigger alternator? That guy who almost killed himself, probly didn't fuse something properly or didn't know what he was doing!
Posted By: t&t tech
Date Posted: October 24, 2009 at 6:36 PM
Feel free to correct me if i'm wrong guys, i'm still learning here!
Posted By: t&t tech
Date Posted: October 24, 2009 at 6:39 PM
Maybe you could read this. It might assist you in performing the upgrade as well as understanding it better!
Posted By: m50sniper
Date Posted: October 24, 2009 at 9:27 PM
Good lord take your damned capacitor off. Those things are actually harming your systems current draw. If you have any clue what they are used for then it's best to take your capacitor off. Yes it may be your alternator I would recommend getting at least a 150A alternator if not more.
Posted By: maxdaccent
Date Posted: December 13, 2009 at 3:59 PM
ok thanks for all your comments but would also like to ask im going to upgrade the big three is it best to use 0AWG cable or is it ok to use 4AWG as i think the 0AWG would be too thick to go onto the battery terminals without hitting the bonnet as the battery it so close as it is with the standard terminal connections. and also another question at the moment if at a show and i turn my system up to over say 40 on the volume it blows the fuse. now what i wanted to ask is that the setup is from the battery it has a 60amp fuse which then goes into a distribution box which the two amps are run from both fused again now my big amp is fused with a 125amp fuse and my smaller amp a 60amp fuse so as its blowing the 60amp fuse before the junction box does that mean that its too small and i shoul up it to say a 100amp fuse? the power cable is 4AWG if that helps.
Posted By: oldspark
Date Posted: December 13, 2009 at 7:34 PM
You fuse is obviously too small for the load. Either upgrade it, or keep the volume low.
The hotter a fuse gets, the closer it is to its rupture current.
If wires get warm, they are probably too small.
It is often impractical to run the desired cable through the entire system. Hence why junctions may be used. EG - a short fat cable runs from the battery + terminal to a nearby chassis-mounted juntion box - typically a fuse or circuit-breaker (since that is required and probably cannot be mounted on the battery).
From there it can be whatever 0 or 00 guage(s) to the loads.
Similarly at the other ends. And maybe for the battery grounds.
The point is to minimise the lengths of undersized cable to minimise total resistance and hence voltage drop.
And also make sure the thinner cables do not themselves become fusible-links - ie, protection should operate before the cables fuse (unless deliberately designed as a fuse point for multi-thousand Amp loads!)
However, it should be the alternator that supplies the loads rather than the battery.
Hence one of the reasons for dual batteries - ie, a second battery (typically AGM/VRLA) next to the amps (big loads). The second battery has the main heavy cabling for the system.
Then just a reasonable sized cable is needed from the alternator to the second battery (ie, not from the first battery). (Noting that the alternator cable is rated for acceptable IR voltage drop at full output. When the alternator's output is exceeded, its voltage drop from (say) 14.4 to 12.6V way exceeds any IR drops. (Or should anyhow!))
BTW - t&t tech - excellent replies IMO!
And you are so right - how can "Amperes" fry an ECU??
As to others wit their BIG sparks when shorting high current DC systems - welcome to the world of automotive batteries, and high-power 12V audio systems!
Posted By: t&t tech
Date Posted: December 14, 2009 at 3:44 PM
Yes as oldspark said your fuse is too small! Also a thing i learned on this site is you fuse according to the wire size and fuse again when a wire is downsized!
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COMMIT YOUR WAY TO JEHOVAH AND HE WILL ACT IN YOUR BEHALF.
PSALMS 37:5
Posted By: oldspark
Date Posted: December 14, 2009 at 5:51 PM
t&t had learned well. Fusing for wire size is the general rule.
But there are exceptions.
EG#1 - Physical Security
As per my "short run" thin cable from the battery terminal to a fuse or heavier cable - the thin cable isn't fused (because (1) it may be rated at less than total demand & (2) we used it BECAUSE we couldn't run a thicker wire to the battery terminal &/or fuse it there).
Noting also that a fuse positioned above a battery is not desirable lest it trigger a hydrogen explosion.
This example may be considered instead to rely on "physical security" which is used where electrical protection isn't possible (eg - telephone exchange DC systems).
It also assumes the thin cable's downstream terminating fuse will melt (rupture) BEFORE the thin cable does!
EG#2 - Oversized cables relative to the load.
Maybe a 4G wire with its 4G-fuse (say 120A) is adequate for our load.
But we want a lower voltage drop so we use 000G wire (1/4 the resistance of 4G) for most of its run.
Instead of a (say) 320A fuse at the start of the 000G, the 120A to match the load is ok.
This reduces resistance since each fuse adds resistance, and we do not need the 320A for the 000G since its substituted 120A will provide the same protection for the 000G and the downstream 4G.
The above example should be an obvious exception to NOT "fusing to suit the wire". Instead it is sized for the maximum load current (being less than the cable/wire rating).
The fuse may approximate the load fuse sizing (but is usually bigger than a single-load's fuse) but should NOT be confused with (each) load(s) own protection fusing.
Also bear in mind that wire ratings are based on some parameter - usually heating. But that may be far short of its rupture capacity - it may be to prevent insulation deterioration.
(The only wire rating I use is resistance - I will typically design for a maximum allowable voltage drop.)
Alas the all the above are simplified and hence their detail is incomplete. They are based an various practices but that vary with design intention.
And they assume resistive protection. Magnetic & Hall etc circuit breakers may have negligible resistance and hence not as undesirable. (Except for the subject of "discrimination" - eg, ever seen a 200kVA UPS's protection operate before a 16A end breaker, hence dropping the entire 130kW of critical CPU load instead of just the faulty 80W monitor/2.4kW circuit? (aka "Professional Design".))
Posted By: t&t tech
Date Posted: December 14, 2009 at 7:57 PM
You too have learned well!  I always appreciate insight! ------------- COMMIT YOUR WAY TO JEHOVAH AND HE WILL ACT IN YOUR BEHALF.
PSALMS 37:5
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