power wiring 2 amps and cap

On a 2006 Honda Accord

1. I'm trying to figure out how to wire my two new amps with a cap for the mono d. I believe i have the right idea.
<a href="https://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v442/scorpicoarcon/?action=view¤t=Untitled-2-1.jpg"><img alt="image" src="https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/scorpicoarcon/Untitled-2-1.jpg" alt="Photobucket"></a>

2. I'm Using all 4 gauge wire with a 90 amp fuse (50+40 by JL recommendation). Is this acceptable?

3. Will i need a relay to hook up the remote on for both amps?

You help is appreciated.

Failure on the pic. Here it is.

The way its setup in the diagram looks good.
You shouldn't need a relay for just those 2 amps.
Ditch the cap.

-------------
UNLABELED Custom Car Club President

This may be drifting to a new topic but why ditch the cap?

There's a bunch of topics on here that go into depth with the capacitor issue.
The thing is... The cap releases All of its power in a super short period of time. less than a second.
It then puts a strain on the rest of your charging system (battery and alternator) to charge its self Back up.
If you want a cap to keep the headlights from dimming during those long, low bass notes, the cap ain't gonna help ya.
If you want the cap because its chrome, lights up, and looks cool, it'll do good. lol

-------------
UNLABELED Custom Car Club President

My cars alternator is rated at 110 amps i didn't think it would have a problem recharging the cap. The sub i have is a JL 8W7 and it kicks hard as hell.

With the wiring setup i have above do you think that when the cap charges it will drain voltage going to the second amp?

dysproxy wrote:

---

On a 2006 Honda Accord

1. I'm trying to figure out how to wire my two new amps with a cap for the mono d. I believe i have the right idea.

2. I'm Using all 4 gauge wire with a 90 amp fuse (50+40 by JL recommendation). Is this acceptable?

3. Will i need a relay to hook up the remote on for both amps?

You help is appreciated.

---

2A. Your fusing is good. I always fuse for the wire at the batt and then fuse for the amp at the amp if it does not have on board fuses.

3A. No need to relay with just the 2. Simply jump from one to the other.

1A. That cap is useless and hurting you more than helping. Your system is capable of drawing up to 90 amps. Then add lights 15-20 amp draw, AC/Heater 15-20amp draw, Any sensors, the head unit its self and so on and so on. Start with the big 3 upgrade and start thinking about a H/O Alt. Once you have the electrical too fully support your system then you can add the bling.


-------------

The anti-cap argument is more about cost, waste, and effectiveness.

Cheaper batteries will give at least the same transient response but usually have 100's or 1,000's of time the reserve power of a cap.
My recommendation has been to fit a small AGM (VRLA) battery in place of the cap.
The 12V-7AH battery is of similar volume to a cap and, being a VERY common battery, is very cheap (typically the "best bang for bucks" for small batteries). It also has the potential (no pun) to jump start your car (7AH where common in emergency starter packs, though these days they tend to use ~15AH).
I was most impressed recently when I found Yuasa (good brand) NP7-12 (12V 7AH)AGM batteries for AUD$35. That's cheaper than equivalent sealed and gel batteries (typically $50). [Note however this NP battery was intended for standby use - but it still has low ESR and delivered cranking current despite its "45A" rating! But maybe cyclic versions are also cheap.]
But even larger AGMs are often cheaper than stiffening caps.
And I have yet to see a vehicle crank off a capacitor!


The arguments about extra loads or strain after discharge are not that relevant.
The cap will not drop below battery or alternator voltage (excluding line losses).   
The alternator is self limiting. (In any case, it has a short-circuit current capability double its transient short circuit current. That's its sub-transient reactance - not its steady-state reactance/impedance!)

If power to recharge was an argument, then the capacitor would always win an efficiency argument because it is nearly 100% efficient. Battery efficiencies are far less.

FYI - The above recharge arguments are often used to argue against other things - like electric fuel pumps, electric fans, etc. Their arguments are usually flawed. (Probably always, but their may be some validity.)


As to caps - when have you seen a discussion of their performance for a sustained bass note?
Wot - no bass note is ever held for more than a second, or fraction of a second?
Wot - the cap fully recharges in between bass notes (despite a LOWER battery and alternator voltage)?
That ends a lot of discussions. I wonder why?

And the above is merely a steady-state situation.   
Try getting into transient state discussions!
Even on this site I haven't seen much. My question as to the effect of having a low ESR AGM and lower ESR cap feed a much HIGHER ESR amp (a steady-state even "DC" question) is still unanswered. (And do PWM/SMPS really need input voltage smoothing?)    


But as one wise person recently said:

If you want the cap because its chrome, lights up, and looks cool, it'll do good. lol

Otherwise use a cheaper battery. (But note the issues with paralleling batteries.)
(Won't a battery look cooler than a cap? A battery means SERIOUS power. And then a voltmeter of your choice - though that should be in the cabin. So a battery temp meter instead! Yeah..!)

Amen!


PS - nice seeing others in agreement with "only one fuse" at the battery end. (Assuming end equipment has its own protective fusing - as they should! - and the fuse suits the smallest downstream cable.)
I so often met posts that insist that fuses must "match" their cable and the more downstream fuses for smaller cables.
I prefer cables that swap load currents with a fuse that handles the load. (Thereby also protecting the cable because the fuse is smaller that the "cable" fuse required.)
Only smaller downstream cables (taps) need be additionally fused.
Alas those that follow a rule only. (Can I use a 100A fuse instead of the cable's 250A fuse? YES!)

I didn't read all of this thread so sorry if I repeated anybody.  You can ground each unit to chassis directly and skip the ground block altogether (keep the ground screws near each other in the same sheet metal panel).  And you might consider putting the capacitor in front of both amplifiers instead of just the bass amp.  I read an argument written by haemphyst one time on the subject of caps and how they may or may not benefit.  IIRC, it might benefit more at higher frequencies than at low, so might as well run it in front of both amps so that either can use it if called for. 

I don't remember the wherefores and don't know where the thread is.  I just remember that if was persuasive enough that I decided at that time that if a situation like this came up, I would recommend putting the cap in front of both amps instead of just the bass amp.

-------------
Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.

stevdart - Maybe more detail is required for the cap location.
Does "putting the cap in front of both amps instead of just the bass amp" mean from the junction Block (to chassis else the other junction block)?

Not that I'm arguing for the cap!! (The same location applies to a substitute battery as well.)

I think haemphyst is like me and tends to argue against caps.

If your amps are mounted in 2 locations, several feet away from each other, is the amp with the shortest power wire getting way more power than the other one? Only tthe difference of the voltage drop of the extra wire.  It will not make any difference where the cap is located.  6 inches from the bass amp and 3 teet away from the other.  Both amps will see the same exact benefits from the capacitor.  If you insist on using the cap, save the money from the distribution block and use the cap as a distribution block.  Then the cap will serve 2 purposes. 1 purpose really well, and you will have to let us know about how it does as far as stiffening the voltage.

i was told before to just ground the amps seperately. and also if you wanted to go with a battery my local car audio store sells shuriken batteries. theyre supposed to be great batteries for a small price and a small package. their cheapest one runs for $110. Its 950 cranking amps also and runs for 35 amp hours. You should give it a look Shuriken SKBT35 High Performance Audio System Battery

-------------