do i upgrade my alternator?

I know I am an Mecp advanced installer but I am not part time and find myself asking a lot of questions lately.

2002 Maxima stock alt is 110 amps with stock style battery.

I am getting kicker zx1500.1 and zx650.4 qs65.2 for the front and rs65.2 for the rear. I am either doing dual L 5's or dual L 7's not sure yet. I am pretty sure I will have to use two or zero guage wire. My questions is power. I think I calculated to need about 150 amps at the alternator. I priced a 190 from HO for 600 bucks. Crazyyyy. What size do I actually need and can I get away with adding a second dry cell batter in the rear? I am prepared to do what I need to do but for money sake and being a pain in the but to change the alternator I rather avoid it if at all possible. Thanks in advance

Pioneer Deh-80mp is my current and will remain my radio for now.

Well since you asked . . .

Considering the money you want to spend on that much amp pwr, you just have to suck it up and buy an alernator that will handle your business.

Even if your 150A figure is too rich and you can live with 50% - 75% of that, the stock alternator would be nominal and taxed if you also run headlamps etc.

I see no way you can "get away with adding a second dry cell battery in the rear" , unless it has a fusion core that never needs recharging . . from your taxed alternator.

If you are going to spend $175 on a Optima Yellow Top, why not just put that money toward your alternator?

maniacelectricmotors

HIGH OUTPUT ALTERNATOR 190 AMP REPLACEMENT FOR 1995-2003 MAXIMA
 
Item# 13826HO
Your Price With Exchange: $318.00
Price with core value: $348.00

Original Equipment Numbers / Core Return / Applications / Warranty

1 YEAR WARRANTY

$30.00 REFUND WHEN CORE IS RETURNED USING THE PREPAID CORE RETURN LABEL THAT COMES WITH YOUR ORDER!

ALL THE POWER YOU NEED FOR ALL YOUR CAR TOYS ! STOCK UNITS WILL PUT OUT BETWEEN 100-125 AMPS THIS UNIT SUPPLIES 190 AMPS OF POWER FOR 1995-2003 MAXIMA'S WITH 3.0L AND 3.5L ENGINES. 90 AMPS AT IDLE / 190 AMPS REACHED AT 1400 RPM ! AN UPGRADED POWER CABLE AND GOOD QUALITY FULLY CHARGED BATTERY REQUIRED FOR YOUR PERFORMANCE ALTERNATOR TO WORK PROPERLY.

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I know just enough to be dangerous. VERY dangerous.

So this alt would be fine for my setup? Should I also get a new battery for this setup? I think a walmart battery is in there now. Should I add a batter or replace and leave just one good one? And what does taxed mean? I will spend the money if I have to dont get me wrong. Thanks for the laugh with the funny battery joke. And thanks for the help.

I've already been pondering your battery while I research, and by the time you replied again, I came to this conclusion.

1) Even if you don't have the original battery, the one you have probably has quite a few months on it, and wasn't purchased with "more juice" in mind.

2) speaking of juice, if you do upgrade the alternator, I would put the most ferocious battery under the hood that will fit without some chainsaw action.

3) while replacing the battery, you would want to replace the terminals , clean spade lugs etc and plan out how you will run all the + cables and grounds, which should NOT be direct to the battery.

(of course the + will be, but the grounds should be off battery and on a heavy strip bolted to the frame)

4) with all the new cranking amps, alt current and clean connections, you might set your car on fire if you ever have a short, but you'll be sounding g o o o d.

Oh and did I mention the 40 hours it will take to do all this?

.

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I know just enough to be dangerous. VERY dangerous.

Also can anyone vouch for this vendor? I read horror stories of people buying "ho alternators" and getting nothing more then stock.

anonymous thanks for the suggestions. So how about the 190 is that plenty or should I go more? I am getting all that equipment at about 1/4 or less than msrp due to working for a retailer. so I do have more money to spend but dont want to spend more then needed. if 190 is fine then its fine if I need more then I have to do it. What about battery choices? Yellow top good enough? I have done the big 3 as well as upgraded grounds under the hood as well as running large wire to the trunk since I am a installer at Best Buy. I understand the risk of fire and I plan on replacing all battery terminals and use kicker power wire. I understand I need to run a new line from the alt to the battery when going high output (big 3) what is your opinion on fusing this wire? I have heard mixed opinions. I myself fuse it.

Also can anyone vouch for this vendor? - I can't I just found something less than $600

So how about the 190 is that plenty or should I go more? - Yeee I don't think so, not if you stick with what you previously stated.

What about battery choices? Yellow top good enough? - For the second battery yes, there are different sizes to chose from.

To be clear, when I mentioned the humongous battery I was referring to the primary and not the second. 800A DIE HARD with a vengence. Or 4? I forget.

I understand the risk of fire and I plan on replacing all battery terminals and use kicker power wire. - I'm not a hype guy myself, I just bought generic welding cable and ran it through my frame, it was more than sufficient.

I understand I need to run a new line from the alt to the battery when going high output (big 3) what is your opinion on fusing this wire? I have heard mixed opinions. I myself fuse it. - you can fuse it but that's just one more junction you have to deal with. If you think the benefit is worth the protection then plan accordingly and leave enough slack for the fuse and find a good spot for it.

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I know just enough to be dangerous. VERY dangerous.

all sounds good. I was asking if anyone can vouch for maniac? The alternator you suggested. so I should do two batteries? I got a little confused about that part. One beefy battery or two batteries one beefy and the other not so much?

I'll vouch for anonymous1 !! (We have differences, but have more in common. [Sorry anon - not meant offensively...] And he states and understands some (IMO) very important basics & principles that (IMO) others may fail to grasp....)


Paraphrasing bigger alternators or bigger (or 2) batteries (without internal fusion)....

A loaded battery discharges.
If not recharged, it eventually goes "flat".
The alternator recharges the battery.
The alternator supplies the vehicle's load (engine, audio, charging batteries, etc).
If the alternator can't keep up with the load, the battery discharges.

Simple enough?


If the battery goes flat enough, the vehicle stops.
Or it may get too flat to crank & start the vehicle.

Solutions:
- an alternator that is big enough;
- get home and recharge the battery (eg from a wall socket) before the "flattery" kills the car....;
- reduce loads before stalling and hence recharge the battery.


A bigger battery merely takes longer to become a flattery, but maybe it will last long enough to get you home, or to a charger, or long enough to last the date. Maybe.

That might be ok. But when your date becomes a honeymoon and your battery flattens on that longer trip; just short of before Las Vegas (or Disneyland, wherever....)

Or maybe you turn down the audio to let the battery re-charge.... well, let's just say your honeymoon may well be over before it even began!

So how do we have our date and eat it too? A big enough alternator.
Or - how do we try to guarantee cranking and staring power? A second battery.
Or what if on the first date at the Drive-In, the audio flattened the battery? A second battery (that was isolated from the main battery).


Whilst there are a few benefits to a second battery (specifically an AGM close to the amplifier), it is not a proper substitute for an undersized alternator.
[Exceptions - short periods that the alternator can't handle - eg: whilst the engine is idling, or very loud (audio) output power/volume (eg during musical peaks, or peaks of dates (shhhh - LOL) - where the battery supplies the shortfall and the alternator replaces the charge later - ie, recharges).]

Another issue is that an alternator usually keeps the system voltage between 13.8V and 14.4V. (That's an average long-term and it varies with temperature...)
When the alternator can't keep up, that voltage drops towards the battery voltage and maybe lower - eg, 12.7V to under 10V. (That's a bit complicated, but 12.7V might be a typical "full" battery and (say) 11.5V is flat. But during cranking, a good & full battery might dip to 10V or less....).

In other words, with an adequate alternator, your vehicle's system voltage should be (say) 13.8V to 14.4V.
When inadequate, that can drop to below 12.8V etc.
[Again, complicated maybe...   But that means dimmer lights (unless HIDs etc); maybe weaker ignition; maybe less audio output - else higher currents into "constant power loads" (like HIDs, some audios, etc).]   


But I'll pause here... (my mate wants to hog this PC...)

I can explain more (oh no no.... please not!) or describe "simple" and cheap systems... and the "no need to match batteries" etc etc.

But the BIG preference is for a BIG enough alternator.
And of course "the BIG 3" upgrades.

I was going write "How do I know when/if I'm under charging?".. or "if I have a flat battery"...
That's called a voltmeter...

But in respect of my recently landed mate from afar.....
(Ask if more is wanted... I have written the options elsewhere...)

OMG! This is what my mate is involved with.....
exploroz-joining batterys

Who is the battery salesperson?

So not only do paralleled batteries not have to be matched, we can now have 2 parallel batteries - one with a collapsed cell - and that is fine?
I think I am missing something....!

lost me. So stay with one batter or get a second? and if I get a second what do I do with the first one?

I hope my expression and description is really bad, otherwise I would question the ability of "installers".
Ok, not the installers I have come to know, but...
(Has that "test/exam" been done yet?)


A second battery means another battery IN ADDITION to the first one.

According to me, that 2nd battery should be an AGM (because it's "inside" else you want a low ESR = Equivalent Series Resistance; very similar/related to "internal resistance") and it shall be placed near the amp.
Why - because caps are bullsh and even a small AGM usually does more than a cap.
AND - because a 2nd battery can be drained but you still have your primary battery to crank & start the vehicle. That assumes you have a battery isolator - and for isolators you can chose between expensive and "complex" voltage sensing isolators that require one less wire to find & connect, or a simple, cheap, common "charge controlled" relay. (The latter also as per "me" and like-minded people).

If you use one battery, will the audio/amp drain it?
If it does drain it, does it matter? (Can mummy or daddy or someone give you it a jump start or pick up the occupants etc?)
Or can you fit a low-voltage cutout that ensures cranking/staring capacity?

Personally, I like two batteries that are connected together ONLY when charging.
If one does fail, I should have the other to crank & start with. (And after starting being able to charge both batteries, or at least get my date home.)

And by only being connected together whilst charging, there is no need to worry about whether batteries are "matched" or not.
(That also assumes a voltmeter else some way of knowing that a faulty battery is killing the other battery and the system..)


Hence, according to me, you keep the first cranking battery.
The second (AGM) is placed as near the main load/amp as possible.

Or if you do not want that independence, just use one battery.
Whether it is the original in the engine bay, or a new AGM next to the amp (that also cranks the vehicle) is up to the customer. Or maybe the normal engine bay battery with a small AGM (~$30) next to the amp instead of a capacitor to help overcome surge shortfalls.

It's whatever the customer wants combined with the costs involved.

[FYI - I am somewhat sick of people that often sell batteries claiming that batteries can be paralleled - whether "matching" or not and without qualification - despite that many non-battery-sellers seem to suggest "do not parallel" (unless or except...).
My latest is that for two paralleled batteries, the one with a collapsed cell will not damage the other.
I am having difficulty correlating that with my knowledge and recalled writing of others...
But this is from an expert... that sells batteries.) ]


So in summary, do whatever the customer wants else what you advise or chose to do.

I understand what a second battery means. My questions was with this system stated and a 190 amp alternator SHOULD I add a second batter to the system or should I just replace my one I have in there now with a really good batter? I know what ESR is and what to look for. I know what battery isolator is and I have installed a few. I understand you questions the MECP exam but at the end of the day this is not all covered and its a shame. I have also been out of the loop for some time now with a new full time job. I appreciate you trying to help me and I apologize that we are having trouble understanding each other. I do a lot of installs but rarely anything of this magnitude. I know its not all that big but it is a lot bigger then the low to mid grade stuff we carry at best buy and we really dont need to worry about power from day to day unless its a civic or something.

I will clarify myself.

I want to know if I should use two batteries or one given the 190 amp or even maybe a 250 amp alternator

I want to know what alternator is the best to go with in terms of amps I should get and a place to get it from.

I want to know what battery is a good battery to get being one or two.

Like I said before I know a good amount about this stuff but never really applied it real life and now that I am doing my own bigger system I want to get it right and learn. I am looking for expert advice from people have worked with what I am looking for and have learned from trial and error.

A user pm'd me and said what is pasted. Anyone can vouch for the vendors supplying quality alternators? I dont wanna get screwed here.

vada_808
Rookie
Rookie

Joined: June�28, 2009
Posts: 2
Location: United States      
Sent: May�31, 2010 at 11:30 AM      Delete Reply To Private Message
i would get the biggest alternator you can afford do the big 3 with aleast 1/0 wire. you only need a second or more batteries if you want to play your system extended periods with the car off. for a alternator i would go with https:///Iraggi-Alternator-and-Electronics__W0QQ_sidZ35089818?_nkw=nissan&submit=Search, or https://mechman.com/store/index.php, https://www.ohiogen.com/, https://www.dcpowerinc.com/alternators/nissan.html. if youre looking for a battery i like https://4xspower.com/

I can't comment on alternator suppliers & reliabilities (I just don't know - other than I won't use Bosch.)

You only need a bigger battery if the original is too small for whatever reserve time you require (without adequate alternator etc).
If your alternator isn't charging enough - the battery has to stay "high" enough to get you through (to a recharge).
The lesser the battery discharges, the longer it should last wrt to life time & aging.    

You only need a second battery if:
(IMO) you need a capacitor to "fill dips" (IMO an small AGM is more likely to be cheaper and superior);
Or you want to separate the audio/amp battery so that you have a cranking battery.

For low ESR, the battery should be close to the amp. A low ESR battery in the engine bay (and remote amp) is almost useless (other than providing good cranking amps) - the cable resistance to the amp adds to the battery's ESR
Hence a low ESR battery near the amp; the "high cranking current" for the starter motor.

I can't advise any better without knowing the average power consumptions of the car and of the audio and amps etc; the average power output of the alternator; and the capacity of the battery.
Even then it can be difficult (age, temperature, extra loud day).


Maybe others can advise?

I'm with oldspark Posted: May 31, 2010 at 11:30 AM , without knowing a lot of other figures I speak in generalities.

I'm also not willing to type near as much so my answers tend to be more to the point and concise.

After years in an international relationship full of chats, I actually hate to type, I would WILL the characters on to the screen with my mind were I able to do so.

Back to the subject . .  as for the PM . .  I second that, but I assumed this was something you already new per your qualifying first post.

Secondly, in the future as far as online etiquette is concerned, if you reveal the contents of a PM for verification, please extend the courtesy of not revealing the SOURCE.

This person sent you the info in a PM for a reason. It's their privilege to remain anonymous with pertinent info.

"I want to know if I should use two batteries or one given the 190 amp or even maybe a 250 amp alternator

I want to know what alternator is the best to go with in terms of amps I should get and a place to get it from.

I want to know what battery is a good battery to get being one or two." - consider info from PM and oldspark

You know a good mfr for second batteries and you know some good resources for where to buy them, anything else you're going to have to make a judgement call about your particular usage\requirements and speak to the resellers about their terms and warrantes etc.

How much is overkill and how much are you willing to spend? . . there's no right answer to this in a forum.

Research > Decide > Purchase > Install > Pass on knowledge

65% > 3% > 2% > 25% > 5%

Just my humble opinion

.

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I know just enough to be dangerous. VERY dangerous.

Is that my "May 31, 2010 at 9:30 PM"? .... damned Zulu time LOL! (Rhetorical question; bad config.)   

Tried "Dragon Naturally Speaking" (voice to text converter)? I did have it years ago.

Anon1 is correct. As usual.
Second the etiquette - NEVER pass on who or their email address (use BCC!!)

I take the conciseness. Verbose does NOT work.
I should stay concise hence reach more.

Hey man your ramblings are pure genius!

Anyhoo, nothing I said was intended as an indictment, admittedly I'm just not as helpful as others for the reasons stated.

I genuinely want to see people succeed at what they endeavor to so and am willing to give anyone my 5 minutes to better the cause.

After all, that's what we're all here for anyways. For the times I seem short in my answers, please don't take it the wrong ways.

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I know just enough to be dangerous. VERY dangerous.

Awww shucks!
AGAIN!

Out intents etc are the same. (Our similar "thinking" is irrelevant per se, but is VERY convenient for readers, and GR8 for me!)

I was self-criticising. I know verboseness is counter productive. But I dropped my old "executive" style - first the conclusion then summary, then expansion for the dumb ones (ie, executives; once they get home).
But I still expand "as I write". Bad bad bad!


I did not take your comments as a crit (not personal or offensive anyway) - merely as your typical SPOT ON assessment.

SEE - I was too brief... I have to be verbose else people misunderstand!!!
Nah me dork - they fall asleep or die before any misunderstanding...