isolator, alternator, 98 honda civic

well i have a Sure Power Multi-Battery Isolator 9523A and i cant seem to get it working right... i have change all the wires and everything but my car has power i just cant crank start my car... why is that?

this is installed on a 1998 honda civic ex coupe stock

there are 4 terminals on the isolator "1, 2, A, and E"

1 is connected to my main under the hood battery positive side terminal
2 is not connected but will b connected to my 2nd battery in trunk (do i need to connect this for my to crank start my car?)
A is connected to the line thats from my positive on my main battery i think its the alternator but not sure to sure... (there is 2 connected to the positive of my battery, one to the fused box, and the other one to this one thing i'm asuming its the alternator and thats the one i connected the A to)
E is not connected and i'm not sure if i need to use it....

does anyone know ow to connect it right? please let me know

1 = Battery 1   2 = Battery 2    A = alternator   E = Engine (or vehicle)

Phew! I thought the problem was the expectation that that (and most other isolators) would assist with cranking.

Not that any isolator should impact negatively on cranking...
The starter should still be connected from the main battery and unaffected by any isolator.

What wire is the engine and where is it located at and the color of the wire on a 98 Honda civic ex coupe? This is my first time installing so help me out a bit guys also is the alternator on the left or right side on my engine? Cause I connected to my left side but I think the alternator is on my right side any idea?

ok i figure it out on the alternator part.. i had my starter connected to the A terminal on the isolator lol anyways ok back to the alternator....

Question 1: i found where its located at but what wire do i used to plug it into my A terminal on the isolator? is it the white wire thats coming from my alternator?

Question 2: and do i need to plug the engine wire to the E terminal on the isolator? if so where and what color is the wire located at? still cant find that

this is for a 1998 honda civic ex coupe

Starter wire = E. Assuming that wire also feeds the car as well as the starter.

An isolator only helps in starting by not using your under hood battery to power the sound system. Hence you can play your amplifiers till the back battery is dead, and you will still be able to start your car. It will in no way give the starter motor more power.

And if "A" has been wired to the battery +12V and the starter to 1 or 2, then trying to start will blow the isolator (assuming it tries to crank).

That diode isolator claims (up to) 95A yet they recommend 50A wiring and a 50A circuit breaker to each battery. That's what I call a 50A isolator, but I presume they mean 95A total - ie, up to 50A to each battery.

Sometimes I think that - if you have a charge lamp - a $10 relay (for 60A to 100A) is much simpler. Plus the 2 battery fuses - but you should have those anyhow, or at least one for the rear battery.
(And now I've probably complicated it.)

ok so the starter wire goes to the E terminal n what about the alternator? there is a green plug and a white i believe a 8 gauge coper wire also connected to the alternator... does that white wire go to the A terminal on the isolator?

Why not follow the isolators instruction?
It has pretty diagrams that help identify things like alternators and shows the connections and wiring?

It doesn't show the Honda civic wirings and they r not pretty it's in black n white lol

All you should require is alternator B+ to isolator A....
Then isolator-1 to main battery +12V....
Then isolator-2 to aux battery +12V.   
(And please follow the simple rule - ensure the chassis/body is doconnected from the battery(s) WHENEVER doing such electrical work. IE - the battery -ve is first off and last on.)

The E is to provide excitation current which you should not require.
The only cable off the Honda's alternator B or B+ terminal should be to the battery or fuse(box) to the battery and vehicle +12V.

And if your Honda alternator is a Nippon Denso, it's probably the 2,3,or 4 terminal "Sensing" type (eg: S,L,I terminals) whereby S goes to the main battery terminal - therefore you don't have to worry about the isolator's voltage drop.
[ Even though those Sure Powers are "the most efficient" according to their blurb. Hey, their Schottky Diode versions have ZERO voltage drop - imagine that! Geez I like taking the pss out of companies that take advantage of people's ignorance, else are so ignorant and stupid themselves....! But is is a fee market, and some have the freedom to spread bullsh... ]

This is definitely a CHMOS post.
Strong advice to our poster.
Don't do this at home, have it done professionally.
From your line of questioning I can see very expensive damage, at least a new alternator.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Ok so I got it all wired up and it looks good with the multimeter... The only think now is my car HU is dimming when the beat hits but my head lights n lights in the car is fine they don't dim. N my amP is connected to the 2nd aux battery but my HU(deck) is connected to the main front battery. And when I play the music loud my jl audio amp resets n the low vottage lights come on... Why is that I wired everything correct

Any idea why this is happening n how to fix this problem?

If its a diode type isolator, yes.

You may be undercharging the system unless the alternators Sense wire is connected as I described.

And you have two batteries that are independent of each other and unable to share the load.

If it is a relay type isolator, the you probably need to do the Big 3 upgrade, else get a bigger alternator.

And Howard - I seriously doubt that this could be considered High speed Complimentary post - it's way slow. (Sorry - I forget how to spell that C word in that post-TTL era MOS logic.)
For I while I thought you wanted to CHange our MODerator - but I'll put that down to my UNIX hangover.

I don't know what I have I post the isolator name n modal on my first post n I have that the big 3 upgrade n my isoolator does show that it's charging the batteries when car is running

I don't know either. I forgot the type it was and I have no intention of reading back, but I'm certain all the info required is there.

Thanks to Howard's comment I recall it's a Honda and, as I said, it should therefore be an ND alternator (usually 3-wire but with 4 terminals) and hence sensing battery voltage instead of the ~0.6V higher alternator voltage.

Maybe take it to someone that knows what they are doing else can understand what I wrote etc etc.
Howard's advice is the best.

well i have a 165amp high output alternator and i dont know what size fuse i need between the battery n the alternator also what size fuse would i need for my amp thats 1000 rms jl 1000/1v2 from the battery to my amp...

i need 2 fuse or do i need more? i did the big 3 upgrade and i have no fuse on my alternator right now is that dangerous? all the wire including the one's on my amp are all 1/0 gauge wires

1000W RMS probably requires a 100A fuse or larger.

The alternator should not need a fuse - older vehicles never had them. [ PS - other than battery end - see below... ]

Newer vehicles have them for reasons I cannot ascertain...
The battery end might have one in case the alternator end shorts to GND, but the heavy cables (for >160A else whatever the alternator's MAXIMUM current output is if that is higher) should be going to the amp or fusebox etc rather than the battery.
And provided the alternator cable is rated for its max output, it shouldn't need a fuse (to protect the cable).

In all cases, the fuse/s is/are to protect its/their downstream cable segment (to the next fuse or load).
EG - if 200A cable is used to the amplifier, then the fuse must be 200A or smaller.

Good points about the alternator.

For the amplifier, you can take a look at this page to see how much current a 1/0 gauge power cable can carry (350 amps). This fuse should be as close to the battery as you can, about a foot or less is ideal, and it will protect the cable from a short circuit. Rating should be equal to or less than the cable's capacity.

The JL amplifier should have a fuse requirement (###? amps) in the user manual, and can be placed just before the amplifier. If the power cable goes straight to the amp, you can use a single fuse rated at the lower of the cable's capacity or the amplifier (certainly going to the be amplifier in this case).

-J

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Malcom: "This is the captain. We have a...little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and then...explode."
Jayne: "We're gonna explode? I don't wanna explode.

New to this n I cant seem to find out the right fuse I'm a noob lol it's for a 98 Honda civic n it does have a fuse box for the alternator but I'm adding a new high out put alternator n not sure of the new fuse I should put in to replace the old one , should I get a 160 amp fuse cause the alternator has that much ampage?

teenkertoy x2. [Thanks! Dare I say you make me feel Serene? (Blame GI Jayne)]
The amplifier's required fuse being placed at the battery end (instead of at the amp end, and another battery-end fuse to protect the cable) is what I was trying to say in my last paragraph.
Though sometimes not understood, that also reduces path resistance and increases reliability (one less fuse etc).


Though I am uncertain, it could be that your Honda splits the alternator's output. One is fused to the battery, the other (maybe also fused but usually not) to the fusebox.   
I suspect it has a 3-flink (fuse-link) box at the +ve battery post similar to what I am using, and an ND alternator.
If it's the newer ECU type Civic, it might have the ECU interactive alternator (the ECU/EMS can cut out the alternator for better acceleration and (IMO!) probably worse fuel economy.)   


If it is a split alternator cable, then the battery fuse should not require increasing as the battery is likely to limit that current, and that is not changing. (Again, that flink is only there to protect the cable - not the alternator.)
Note that supply voltage (and the battery) determine the battery's charge current. Assuming the existing alternator has adequate charging capacity, increasing its size will have no effect. (Only increasing its voltage will.)


And chances are that your alternator to main fusebox bussbar is unfused. (It instead relies on physical security instead if inline fusing protection, and the battery-alternator fink will blow if it's the battery that supplies any fault current to the main fusebox via that alternator path.)
By main fusebox I mean the fusebox that usually has the major circuit fuses - which may include relays as well.


I assumed you also did The Big 3 (or 4) in conjunction with this. Heavier grounding between engine-body-battery(-ve) will be required for the added Amps else to reduce their voltage drop. Same for the battery to amp and alternator to amp +12V paths (that's the extra #4th in the Big 3 if I recall correctly..!).

Otherwise ensure adequate grounding. Burning out ground straps can be disastrous for vehicle electrics - especially if sensing the battery voltage as most Hondas do - ie, those with the older 3-wire SIL type alternators. (System voltages can go way above 15V or 16V, though ND and similar "S" type Jap alternators are often limited to around 15.5V max output in case the Sensing S connection goes faulty - or for whatever lucky reason they are limited to under 16V - the common upper design limit for 12V loads.)


And inadequate grounds when cranking can cause fusing of other engine-ground paths - like throttle cables, low current harness grounds, springs - and spot welding or plating of prop-shafts, bearings etc.


As to where you connect your ">1kW" amp cable, that's up to you. You want minimal resistance - but from your battery (for 1kW with engine off), or the alternator (1kW engine charging)?
I'd prefer maybe the main fusebox if convenient with a "1kW" fuse to the amp (ie, 100A, 150A whatever), and similar cable from the battery and from the alternator added (capacity wise) to the existing alt to fusebox & battery to fusebox wiring... But many take it from the battery +12V, but I'm unsure how they then modify their alt-battery and fusebox-battery cabling and fusing. (IMO such heavy battery termination is for adjacent loading - ie, boot/trunk batteries for amps; winching batteries; starter motors, etc.)   


Simple isn't it?
(NOT!!!)
(But that's why I have my methods... But even they vary with design desire.)

Ok that helps a bit thanks

well here is my problem... even with a new alternator 165amp is still giving my jl 1000/1v2 amp a low voltage light(blue), i'm running a 1000/1v2 jl audio amp with 2 12" jl w6v1 subs

what have i done so far?
* the big three upgrades
* bigger high output alternator (165amp) (14.4 volt)
* 12v blue top optima battery in the back just for the amp it self...
* battery isolator

well my main question is what should i do to fix my low voltage light that keeps showing up when i turn the volume up loud...

i dont know much about car audio but i'm sure ihave more then enough watts and power to run the amp... so why is it still showing up the low voltage light?

wel i have a yellow opt optima battery also and i was planning to add that to the mix and hope it fixs the low voltage light problem BUT cause the battery is a 12v can i connect it with the blue top and yellow top together as a series and i know that wll higher the voltage by double its normal voltage bu will that harm my amp in anyway?? or should i just do the parallel but then the parallel will not give my a higher voltage but will stay the same but is that going to fix my low voltage problem? series or parallel and why?

let me know what you guys think i should do... and any advice would be great... thanks

p.s. its a refurbised alternator with new parts in it and i just installed it... should it need to be break in or shouldit just work right away? idk you guys let me know what you think

bump *** does any one know how to answer my question i really need help

oldspark: Time for some thrilling heroics.

bryanmc1998: I'm going to try and write this out in great detail. I hope you can learn lots, but if you are at all unsure, please ask a local car shop to examine your system.

To connect two batteries together, go in parallel. If you run series, not only will the alternator not be able to charge it, but there is a great chance of something burning up due to having 24volts instead of 12volts (this includes stuff in the car unrelated to the amplifier).

Adding a second battery will not fix a low-voltage problem. Do not add yet another variable (battery) into an unstable system (low voltage) before you fix the system first. You either have a broken amplifier, or a weak link in this chain: alternator positive to battery positive, battery positive to amplifier, amplifier negative to ground, ground to alternator (engine in most cases), and don't forget battery to ground (chassis in most cases). If you have a multimeter, you can troubleshoot by measuring resistance (ohms) between these points. All measurements should be at most a couple ohms.

This is for a typical setup, but you also have a battery isolator. This complicates things for troubleshooting. The most solid troubleshooting step I can recommend is running everything from a single battery and remove the isolator and second battery. If you still can't get the amplifiers to work properly, you may have a bad amplifier. If you can get the amplifiers happy on one battery, then add the second battery in parallel and test. If that works, install isolator and test again. The problem should show up at some point, which will almost always be caused by the last thing that you changed (so only change one thing at a time!!!)

....

If you are still having trouble please find someone local (a proper car audio shop) who can examine the setup in person. We are quickly approaching the point where it's not possible to fix over the internet.

-J

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Malcom: "This is the captain. We have a...little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and then...explode."
Jayne: "We're gonna explode? I don't wanna explode.

teenkertoy: - I love you. (Nothing personal of course - that's purely professional!)


bryanmc1998: Your next step is to replace the isolator with a relay type - diode isolators should never be used for audio battery isolation.

That should increase battery voltage by about .6V.
(That assumes it is a diode type, and that all the rest have been done....)


CHMOS indeed.

I love you too?

Something is dragging the voltage from about 14v at the alternator down to roughly 10v (for the blue light to come on, according to JL's manual). Changing from a diode to a relay-based isolator can only account for a tiny fraction of that voltage drop, suggesting the problem lies elsewhere.

I echo oldspark ... have a local shop check everything else first!

-J

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Malcom: "This is the captain. We have a...little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and then...explode."
Jayne: "We're gonna explode? I don't wanna explode.

bryanmc1988 - See a specialist. Unless you can measure and compare voltages to determine where the drop is, IMO it is pointless else risky continuing. You could damage components or worse....


And I agree with teenkertoy that the isolator alone should not be causing such a big voltage drop. Maybe it is, though it's probably poor or inadequate wiring to the rear, or the rear battery is faulty (that's hazardous - especially if an AGM like Optima).
But unless you have a specific reason for NOT wanting the front and rear batteries interconnected whilst charging, you have the wrong isolator anyway. Most will parallel the batteries instead.