opinions, 12'' subs frequency response

Okay, this might sound like another one of my famous stupid questions, but I'm serious here (as always). I'm just wondering if 12's with a frequency response of 20-80 Hz is worth buying, or would I be better off with ones with a F/R of 20-250 Hz? 250Hz seems a little high for subs. Of course I can adjust the frequency response with my equalizer, but I'm just worried that if I buy the ones that only go to 80Hz I'll miss out on bass guitar and maybe bass drums. I'm not trying to vibrate my bones or rattle windows with the deepest, lowest bass I can get. If that were the case I'd buy 15's or bigger. I do like my bass low, but I listen to a LOT of reggae and a lot of chill/electronica, so I want to have the subs reproduce bass guitar frequencies as well as bass drums, not just some ultra-low drum machine.

Okay, I know, that was a dumb question. To some. To others, it may seem logical to ask. WHY am I even asking? Well, because I'm finally ordering my subs this weekend and I originally had my heart set on the ones with 20-250 Hz f/r, but for $15 more I can get ones with only 20-80 Hz f/r. And of course "more expensive is better" (LOL!). I would just hate to only have subs go up to 80 Hz and put everything else on my 6x9's.

Thanks for your opinion. Now you can stop laughing. :)

Not a silly question. Even more important that the manufacturer's specified frequency response is this: How are the drivers going to perform in the volume you are willing to provide them?

The T/S parameters will tell you how a given driver will perform, as well as the type of enclosure you need to provide them for them to perform their best. If you put a driver that wants a big vented enclosure (likely the 20-250Hz model - but that's a guess), in a small sealed home, you'll be sadly disappointed. In a very near-field venue such as a car, any true subwoofer at all will easily fill the cabin with 125Hz - about as high as I would ever take ANY "subwoofer"... I'm more of the school that 60 to 80 Hz and down is all you should ever relegate to sub duty, especially with a shallow crossover slope such as is provided on most deck or amplifiers today.

More is not better. Seriously. Buy the drivers you:
1. can afford.
2. are willing to live with.

If you don't mind terribly, provide the forum with the drivers you are considering, the enclosure volume you can allot to them, and you've already provided a desired result - handy... [:P] Maybe there's some more available input from the guys...

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

i think an upper response of 80Hz is a little limited but i usually dont set subs much higher than that anyway because around 80 - 100 Hz is where a good mid should start to give detail to your sub frequency instruments ( bass guitar, drums, etc ). a good mid should work together with your sub and that is what will give the sound depth and detail. just the sub itself wont give you good detail in a car audio system especially if the sub is in the trunk, the sub is there to give you the impact that a mid cant provide and to set the tone of the lower frequency range so a frequency response of 80 Hz would probably be ok as long as you have decent mids up front.

WOW, thanks so much for those very detailed posts! VERY informative! I'm pretty car-audio savvy, but just wasn't sure on the sub choice.

To answer a few questions above, here ya go:

One of my problems is space limitations. So, as much as I hate to admit it, I was almost forced to use truck boxes. They would be mounted in my (small, over-crowded) trunk of my '99 Chevy Prizm. I can't fit a regular dual-12 box back there. So yes, apparently I'm going to be kind of bummed at the bass response. My next issue to worry about is finding a box (or two boxes) that these babies will fit into that will fit in my car, even if it means putting them in the back seat.

The subs I was considering were Pioneer Champion TS-W310D4 dvc 12's (those have the F/R of 20-250Hz) and the Pioneer Champion Pro TS-W3003D4 (with their F/R of 20-80Hz). Although the Pro's have a wee bit more power handling (600 wpc RMS, 2000 wpc max) over the regular Champion's (400 wpc RMS, 1400 wpc max), I've made up my mind: I am NOT getting the Pro's. Why? Well, I called Sonic Electronix and talked to a tech and he actually thought the 20-80Hz was a typo! He checked Pioneer's website and confirmed yes, that was the correct F/R. He quickly advised me against any sub with a F/R only going up to 80Hz if I wanted to hear any bass drums or bass guitar. Not only that, once he saw how much I've spent there over the last few years, he knocked $5 off each, making them $120 for the pair instead of $130.

So I'm ordering the ones with the frequency response of 20-250Hz because of expert opinion AND some of your replies. Oh, and because I can always adjust my crossovers to whatever max frequency I desire.

These two DVC 12's are going to be run in parellel/bridged mono powered by an Infinity Kappa One 1,600 watt (max) mono amp. I think I'll be happy with the bass. Not looking to rattle anyone's windows down the street, just want the bass to sound good without turning stuff way up.

Thanks again for your replies! Pictures coming soon of the finished products, but here are what I'll be bumping with:







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And by the way I just built a system for a friend using 18" subs crossed at 600Hz in a 2-way stereo system. Speakers are speakers and ALL of them will reproduce nearly the full range of human hearing: it's just that different designs are optimized for best performance over certain bands. But you can seriously do almost anything you want with them if you know how. :)

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600Hz, what did you have to do to get the 18.s to blend with the mids up that high? or did the box design even allow much response up that high. i used to have a similar setup, one set of 2-way components up front and a single 18 crossed over at around 100Hz and my low tuned box created a natural roll off around 100 hz that blended well with my door speakers. ah... i miss that setup...

That's the first time in my 56 years on the planet I've heard THAT statement. Sure, subs will "play" pretty much any frequency (I suppose) but you certainly won't hear them very well. I've never heard of 18's that even go up much above 100-150Hz or so, but I'm sure they make them. Never studied 18's so I don't know. Just sounds like anything above maybe 200Hz in an 18 would be waste of a sub.

Well, I've already ordered and paid for my 12's, and stuck with the original plan of the ones that do 20-250Hz, then I'll just adjust my crossovers to keep the frequency down where I want it. My Clarion 6x9's go down to 25Hz, but I'm going to set my low-pass crossover switch on top of my equalizer to 90Hz and maybe tweak the Kappa ON's DBO variable high-pass filter to what the owner's manual suggests.

Thanks for all the help, folks! I'll let everyone know how it all sounds (or I should say... FEELS!).

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Here's the system:

18" pro audio Warfdale subwoofer in 4 cuft ported enclosure, passive crossover @600Hz to horn, and @11KHz to super tweet. Sounds fantastic. Measures flat to 26Hz.


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