Two 8" subs vs one 10" or 12"
Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Audio
Forum Discription: Car Stereos, Amplifiers, Crossovers, Processors, Speakers, Subwoofers, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=1433
Printed Date: June 09, 2024 at 6:37 PM
Topic: Two 8" subs vs one 10" or 12"
Posted By: awd_sr
Subject: Two 8" subs vs one 10" or 12"
Date Posted: June 22, 2002 at 11:51 AM
will I be able to get the same bass I have now with a 10" sub by using two 8" subs? or even one really good 8" sub? I just want a nice bottom end inside the vehicle, I'm not worried about rattling the neighborhood, and I want to conserve space in the back of my cargo area in a Cherokee. I have a 10" Kicker, errrrr, I mean Pyle with a Kicker dustcap on it, I got screwed big time. I have a MTX Thunder Amp bridged to one channel pushing it, I'll post the model # later. If 8's will do, what are a good brand that requires low volume, but will deliver the goods? Thanks again
Replies:
Posted By: awd_sr
Date Posted: June 22, 2002 at 11:53 AM
when I say volume, I mean cubic feet of enclosure, not sound volume and can anyone recommend a good 10" or 12" sub that requires low volume while delivering a punch? THanks again
Posted By: subsonic
Date Posted: June 23, 2002 at 7:12 PM
Hey, you should check out www.crutchfield.com. They have a component subwoofer section with subs from 6.5" to 15 inch and they have a wide variety. Hope this is helpful. And if you buy an order of $250 of more and you mention me then you get $25 off and I do too. So if you buy something(s) that equall to $250 or more then put this on your order form in the "special messages" box: (my id #) RA752 21201154 ok thanks and I hope you find a woofer to fit your needs. ------------- subsonic
Posted By: subsonic
Date Posted: June 23, 2002 at 7:17 PM
and they give enclosure volumes w/ the woofer so you don't have to calculate it on your own.
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subsonic
Posted By: GlassWolf
Date Posted: June 24, 2002 at 11:18 AM
for small space and good impact, look at the Stillwater Kicker Solobarics. Their original design was for just that application. low volume enclosures (sealed) and hard-hitting subs.
To get a rough idea for comparing sub sizes, using basic geometry, figure (pi*r(squared) the surface area of each sub, then multiply by the number desired. so figure total surface area for subs used. this, combined with total driver excursion, will give ya a pretty good idea for how much air the subs will move. Also remember, power used to drive them factors in as does enclosure design. Subs have static statistics for things like Fs. VAS, elec Q and mech Q, and so forth which determine the type of enclosure for which they are designed. Some are made for a sealed box, some for ported or bandpass. Make sure you build the right box for your sub!
Also remember, the smaller the sub(s) the tighter, and "faster" your bass will be (more responsive). The larger the sub, the more deep resonance you'll get.
small subs, 10" and smaller, give a lot of snappy punchy bass. large subs, 12"+ yield that ground-shaking, deep rumble sort of bass you can feel in your shoes. Each has it's place. The type of enclusure will play a factor in response too, as will sub positioning. subs close to you, facing you, like behind the seats of a pickup truck, are very snappy. facing the subs toward the back of a hatch and letting the waves reflect off of the tailgate then come forward produce more resonance, by giving the signal more time to mature a full bass-wave (a 12" sub requires about 8 *feet* to mature a full wave. that's a lot of distance, thus facing a 12" backward helps. Otherwise, the guy a car or two ahead of you hears really nice bass! heh)
good luck. I hope some of my gained wisdom helps.
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-GlassWolf
Pioneer Stage-4, Orion, DynAudio, Fi
Posted By: awd_sr
Date Posted: June 24, 2002 at 11:24 AM
thank you both for your insight. I'm a regular crutchfield customer, thats where I get all my alarms from and alot of my stereo goods. I think I do want punchier bass, but then again I like it dep as well...decisions, decisions... I'll look through the catalog tonite to see what I'll go with Also, my Amp puts out more power into 2ohms, so I'm gonna go with a 2ohm woofer Thanks again guys
Posted By: GlassWolf
Date Posted: June 25, 2002 at 12:08 AM
well.. for deep, tightly controlled, quick responsive bass, go with a sealed box, make it "roomy" (1.5cu ft per sub for 10", 2 cu ft per sub for 12") and use polyfill too. design the box well. angle the side opposing the sub(s) to avoid wave cencellation which KILLS a sub's sound. Harmonics are a nightmare.
Anyway, also consider an Isobaric design which uses more power, but hits hard as balls for the effort it costs in design. (design is critical for isobaric/bandpass)
In this case, go with two 2-ohm subs, or 4 4-ohm subs.. etc.. just use Ohms Law, and calculate your lowest stable load for the amp, and then get speakers that will yield this load. example: an Orion 225HCCA can handle a stable half-ohm stereo load. most amps go down to 2 ohms stable.
find out what yours does. get subs to match that.
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-GlassWolf
Pioneer Stage-4, Orion, DynAudio, Fi
Posted By: awd_sr
Date Posted: June 25, 2002 at 4:17 PM
thanks GlassWolf I need to check my Amp specs again. I know its stable at 2 ohms into 2 channels, but I'm not sure about bridged. One sub is gonna do it for me, that will give me that good balance between cargo room and low end on my tunes. If I told you the type of sub I wanted, and sent you a design for the box, would you be able to "critique" it for me? Thanks again for the insight, and take it eZ Tony
Posted By: GlassWolf
Date Posted: June 25, 2002 at 5:35 PM
yeah I could always take a glance at it, sure.
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-GlassWolf
Pioneer Stage-4, Orion, DynAudio, Fi
Posted By: NyxBass
Date Posted: June 25, 2002 at 6:31 PM
Post your ideas here, there are quite a few talented and educated people here that can help! GlassWolf is right on with his advice, except for one thing (imho) which is the isobaric loading. check this out for more info on that: https://www.jlaudio.com/tutorials/isobarik/index.html I have to say that I've heard a few 8" JL's that just killed in really small enclosures. I'm still trying to decide what I'll use in my own truck, but If I opt out of the bed blow through, It'll be two eight's behind the seat. Good luck with whatever you do! ------------- /NyxBass
Posted By: awd_sr
Date Posted: June 25, 2002 at 8:37 PM
as thrifty as I am....i got this 12" box from my neighbor. He used to have a JL in there, not sure what model. I'm thinking of puttting a nice 12" sub in there. I'm gonna figure out the volume of the box based on the dimensions and then post em here, maybe you kind folks can help me make a better decision on a sub??? Right now I'm using an MTX Thunder 280 bridged into 4 ohms which gives me 160Watts RMS at 12.5 Volts. This seems to be enough power for my liking, so what sub will best suit this setup (box and amp) Here are pics of the box: https://images.cardomain.com/installs/216000-216999/216903_19_full.jpg https://images.cardomain.com/installs/216000-216999/216903_20_full.jpg and if u want to check out my whole car, heres the link https://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/view_page.pl?page_id=216903&page=3 thanks again for the help!
Posted By: awd_sr
Date Posted: June 25, 2002 at 8:46 PM
btw, GlassWolf, I checked out your site, cool stuff my man! I heard a guy at work talk about someone putting their PC inside of a keg...
Posted By: GlassWolf
Date Posted: June 26, 2002 at 6:19 PM
if that box you're using is sealed, you should be okay as sealed enclosure size is fairly by the book per sub diameter.
If the enclosure is ported, you really need to calculate the proper port diameter(s) and length(s) for the sub to work in a proper manner in that enclosure.
and thanks
PS, based on the whacky angles used in that box, it may be easiest, for calculating volume, to look at the box from the side, and draw an imaginary line from one corner to the opposing corner, changing the geometric shape you're measuring from a single quadrohedron into 2 triangles. Then measure the angles, and side-lengths, and using basic geometry, calculate the volume from Pythagorean therum.
If your sub is designed for a ported enclosure, using the Thiele-Small tables, and your sub's stats, you can easily calculate port lengths for that box once you have it's volume as well. Doing this, assuming the sub is made for a ported box, and the box is now sealed, you can add one, or two (even 4) 4"ID ports cut to measure.
that part is very easy. I just used to use plastic plumbing pipe. very sturdy, and easy dremeled to round the edges to avoid port-whistling.
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-GlassWolf
Pioneer Stage-4, Orion, DynAudio, Fi
Posted By: GlassWolf
Date Posted: June 26, 2002 at 6:21 PM
hahaha cardomain
man I just went through all 225 Grand Cherokees there the other night LOL!
there are a lot of sweet Jeeps there. I thought about posting pics of mine from my site there once I get the air induction installed (it's being built right now to order) and tint the front windows.
Also playing with the idea of flush-mounting the amps under the rear seats for show.
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-GlassWolf
Pioneer Stage-4, Orion, DynAudio, Fi
Posted By: awd_sr
Date Posted: June 26, 2002 at 7:40 PM
i just "threw" my sub amp under the back seat of my Cherokee, should I "throw" a fan under there too so it wont get too hot?
Posted By: pervitizm
Date Posted: June 28, 2002 at 12:26 AM
Hey Subsonic, I just wanted to let you know that I used your ID number today to purchase something off of crutchfield. I hope that this is okay with you. pervy ------------- live & die 4 tha luv of BASS!!!!
Posted By: GlassWolf
Date Posted: June 28, 2002 at 3:10 AM
The Cherokee/Grand Cherokee has a TON of space under those back seats. Heat issues really depend on the amp. if it's not flush-mounted in a board of some type you should be okay.
I was actually just considering flush-mounting my 3401 parametirc EQ, PPI PCX-440, and Orion 2150SX under that rear bench myself, and probably doing the flush-board in fleckstone to match the gray interior. Figured that'd look nice.. maybe with a clear plexi window over the parametric.
just something to kill some time I guess LOL
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-GlassWolf
Pioneer Stage-4, Orion, DynAudio, Fi
Posted By: awd_sr
Date Posted: June 28, 2002 at 5:52 AM
yeah, that would be tight. I was thinking of doing something similar, but using gray vinyl to cover the board. The plexiglass is the cherry on top! Then, through a neon light under there...well, how often are u gonna lift that seat??? Let me know how that goes. Tony
Posted By: pervitizm
Date Posted: June 28, 2002 at 8:05 PM
subsonic, thanks alot! i was able to save 25 dollars off of my order at crutchfield. you are da man! pervy ------------- live & die 4 tha luv of BASS!!!!
Posted By: GlassWolf
Date Posted: June 29, 2002 at 12:47 AM
I'd lift it as often as I could to show it off!! hahaha
actually I like the idea under the rear bench to keep it hidden. Only comes out when I have friends here or at shows.
If I trick out the jeep any further, and ditch the bass tube I'll probably drop my Lestech alternator in it, re-run it all with 4ga. power, and do the fleckstone board under the seats for a 4-channel amp for mids/highs, the alpine 3401 parametric for a tuning EQ, and the trusty old Orion 2150SX for the subs, which will go back to my old, faithful Cerwin Vega 12" DVC LE12D subs. fantastic sensitivity with treated paper cones.. and they can hit really hard.
I just need to decide on a box type now.. thinking small and removable, so maybe a clam-shell isobarik box, in a vented push-pull configuration, again fleckstone coated.. and thinking a slot-vent this time instead of a tube port.
heh too much time to play I guess LOL
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-GlassWolf
Pioneer Stage-4, Orion, DynAudio, Fi
Posted By: awd_sr
Date Posted: June 29, 2002 at 5:25 AM
sounds pretty sweet! whatever u do, you gotta post pics at your page. Is fleckstone that greyish black, blackish gray paint/speckled?
Posted By: GlassWolf
Date Posted: June 29, 2002 at 11:10 AM
yup that's the stuff. comes in single-can (automotive trunk paint they call it) or two-can/two-step versions.
very slick looking stuff when it's applied..
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-GlassWolf
Pioneer Stage-4, Orion, DynAudio, Fi
Posted By: awd_sr
Date Posted: June 29, 2002 at 5:45 PM
cool, where can I scoop this from?
Posted By: GlassWolf
Date Posted: June 29, 2002 at 9:06 PM
Any place like Wal-Mart or K-Mart should carry it in their spray-paint section. Home Depot is good too.
there's a picture of the fleckstone pattern here:
www.wickedcases.com/jeep/page3.html
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-GlassWolf
Pioneer Stage-4, Orion, DynAudio, Fi
Posted By: mobiletoys2002
Date Posted: June 29, 2002 at 9:10 PM
yeah that stuff is really cool i love the way it looks ive put it on amp racks its nice, some neon and fleckstone and you got something real nice. 
Posted By: awd_sr
Date Posted: June 30, 2002 at 10:17 AM
oh ok, thats the stuff. hey GlassWolf, you really do have tons of space under there, alot more than I do... I'll take a pic today and update my page.
Posted By: GlassWolf
Date Posted: June 30, 2002 at 2:21 PM
yeah grand cherokees do have hella space under that rear bench, if you don't mind forsaking your tire jack heh
Anyway, I need to fit that 2125SX under one side, which takes the whole side, then probably a Lightning audio bolt b300.4, alpine 3401 parametric EQ, and maybe the orion preamp all under the other side. it'll still be a tight fit unless I move a piece or two elsewhere
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-GlassWolf
Pioneer Stage-4, Orion, DynAudio, Fi
Posted By: awd_sr
Date Posted: July 01, 2002 at 12:03 PM
i put my MTX Thuder 280 amp and my Sony full din EQ under my rear seat on Sunday. I left the jack on the other side. It all fit nicely, but a flushmount board would REALLY look nice...;)
Posted By: GlassWolf
Date Posted: July 01, 2002 at 1:12 PM
sweetness :)
see my problem is this:
the Orion sub amp fits fine on the driver's side, but it takes the ENTIRE side haha
the 4-channel amp still needs to go in, so I'm thinking passenger side where the jack sits.
Then I'm thinking pull out the passenger front seat and mount the parametric to the floot there.
After all, once that puppy is tuned, it's set-and-forget. never need to see it again.
That only leaves me needing a place for the orion pre-amp which will fit right in nestled with the 4-channel amp on the passenger side.
I'll be using second-order passive crossovers for all speakers in the setup. 12dB/octave roll-off on front and rear doors @ 4 ohms, and the same but at 2 ohms for the subs (pair of 12" subs in an iso-vented box)
That way no need to find a home for another electronic xover. the Alpine 3339 will function as the "splitter" for the amps. sub-output to the sub amp, and 4-channel high-pass out to the 4-channel amp for the doors.
heck, doing that I may not even need the passive xovers as they add more phase shift anyway
we'll see
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-GlassWolf
Pioneer Stage-4, Orion, DynAudio, Fi
Posted By: awd_sr
Date Posted: July 01, 2002 at 8:13 PM
I mounted the tuner for my Clarion Auto PC to a carpeted board under my drivers side seat. The board is big enough that it cant be removed without taking out the seat. I never like drilling through the floor of my ride for some reason, but that would probably be the best way to do it. What do you have in that pocket in the cargo area? Maybe there's a way to mount something there?
Posted By: GlassWolf
Date Posted: July 02, 2002 at 2:05 PM
the parametric is too large. already looked. no actual pocket on mine, just an inverted L shaped indent.
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-GlassWolf
Pioneer Stage-4, Orion, DynAudio, Fi
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