Stuck on SQ subs
Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Audio
Forum Discription: Car Stereos, Amplifiers, Crossovers, Processors, Speakers, Subwoofers, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=1966
Printed Date: June 15, 2024 at 4:28 PM
Topic: Stuck on SQ subs
Posted By: jwhazel
Subject: Stuck on SQ subs
Date Posted: July 15, 2002 at 6:25 PM
So I'm working on upgrading my system (slowly trading up my Excelon stuff for Alpine) and I've gotten to the subs. I've searched high and low and havn't been able to find any real definitave info on quality SQ subs. I'm going to fiberglass (sealed) them into my trunk and I'm thinking two 10"s will due just fine (currently have two kenwood 10"s in crappy ported box). I definately don't want to "bump" or "slam", just to complement my low end. Price is not an obstacle.
At first I was thinking Alpine Type R's, but then I heard they were strictly spl's, so thats a no go. Then I was all gung-ho about Infinity Kappa's. Then i heard that these things want at least about 500W rms and anything less will make it sound like crap. Now I can feed them 500w pretty easy and possibly more, its just that I'm not that sure that I want to. Again, I don't really want to "slam", just complement. Then I did some searching on this forum and found someone posted about Boston Acoustics making a nice sub because it will take like 2w to 500w and still sound good. Is this true? Any other opinions on Boston Acoustic subs versus Kappas? I was also looking at Polk Momos.
Well, suffice to say my head is spinning. The only true test of a speaker is with my ears, but I just don't have the luxory of living in a place that has any of these subs, or any real sq's for that matter, on display. So I would be very gracious and value any type of input that anyone would like to chime in. I listen to a lot of hardcore metal like Dillinger escape plan, Hatebreed, Embodyment, etc... but I also enjoy a lot of classical and jazz like Dennis Deyoung and John Coletrane. So basically I'm looking for nice tight, detailed bass that would cover my variety in music. Again, I would appreciate any input that anyone would have on my situation.
Replies:
Posted By: dgreaves
Date Posted: July 15, 2002 at 6:36 PM
if i may suggest tryin jl audio i have heard a lot of different subs but i jus love the jls
Posted By: mobiletoys2002
Date Posted: July 15, 2002 at 9:51 PM
Did you look into maybe a stillwater designs(kicker) maybe some kicker comps in a sealed box will give you what you want,or some jl audios are good as well,rockford makes a good speaker,all of the speakers i mentioned will give yo uboth loud and clean bass it is more about the box desigh than anything else. A good thing for you to do is go to a shop listen to diferent types of boxes like say ported against sealed and see what you like better then pick a sub that is designed to work well in that box. Like u said your ears will always be the judge noone can really tell you what you ewill like it all up to you .Maybe you can try Crutchfield although a little overpriced, at least there if you dont like the way the sub sounds in your car you can send it back they pay for the return shipping. This will not only let you hear the sub of your choice but it will be in your car and that makes a big difference ,when you go to a shop and hear a sub you cant expect it to sound the same in your car it always will sound different.
Posted By: jwhazel
Date Posted: July 15, 2002 at 9:53 PM
Hmmm, I've heard some JL's and to me they just kind of sound too low and boomy. I had listened to some of the W6's in a JL box and it wasn't quite what I was looking for. Which JL do you prefer the most? I always thought Kickers were more of a competetion spl type sub. I've actually heard all three of those at a local shop. I didn't really care for them, but maybe thats just because they were run off of a crappy amp or something.
You do make a very good point about it depending on what type of enclosure they are in. I've experimented with porting. Its okay, but for what I want I think sealed will work best.
Posted By: mwhcai
Date Posted: July 15, 2002 at 11:01 PM
JL Audio makes many different enclosures. Which type did you hear with the W6's? Maybe the crossover was set too high. I bought a Prowedge, which is a 12W3 in a sealed enclosure. The sound quality is very good. If jwhazel isn't looking for loud bass, the W0's may work just fine. Jwhazel, have you listened to any JL Audio subwoofers? These are very common speakers in the competition audio. I am not an installer, but from searching through hundreds of high end installs on the web I have found the JL Audio subwoofers to be one of the most commonly used subwoofers.
Posted By: -=Jason=-
Date Posted: July 15, 2002 at 11:55 PM
heres another vote for JL audio. I run a 10W1 in my pickup and love it. I've also had the W0 series subs and loved them too.
Posted By: Static Revenger
Date Posted: July 16, 2002 at 12:24 AM
Yet another vote for JL Audio here.  I have used 3 10W6's in a sealed enclosure when I competed somewhat years ago & then just 1 10W6 in a ported enclosure,when I didn't need 3 anymore in my standard cab S-10 showtruck I used to have,haven't really messed with the W3's any,the 10W0's are really nice,easy on the wallet,don't need tons of power to push them very well,I actually just took out my old 10W6 that I've had in service since 95' and put 3 10W0-12's in it's place in the trunk of my current car,slamming them very nicely is a moderately powered Us Acoustics amp ...only 280 watts going to them and the gain isn't hardly turned up,I guess the 4volt line out from the sub out of my Clarion deck doesn't hurt either.  Other than the JL's you might check out some MB Quarts and see what you think of them.  ------------- 
Posted By: Velocity Motors
Date Posted: July 16, 2002 at 12:56 AM
I ran Alpine DD Drives for a couple of years in my SQ vehicle and they were good for the money at the time. I am now going to be running Boston Acoustics 12.5 LF woofers in the vehicle. These subs are capacble of handling small amounts of power ( 50 watts RMS ) but perform best with lots of power ( peak power 1200 watts ). They are very well prices ( $ 250.00 US ) and they are very strong and sound very tight in a sealed enclosure or a bandpass enclosure. I have not heard the Kappa's before, but I have heard Rockford's, Alpine's, Boston Acoustics, Sony , Focal and many others, but I really was impressed with the type of bass the BA's had for the money. Optimum crossover for these are under 80 - 120 Hz's up to 500 Hz's.
-------------
Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA
Posted By: -=Jason=-
Date Posted: July 16, 2002 at 12:11 PM
you may also want to look at the Infinity Perfects or Eclipse.
Posted By: GlassWolf
Date Posted: July 16, 2002 at 3:34 PM
the perfect10 subs are quite niec. I almost bought a pair of the DVC 12" versions. the tens I can find for about $150 each.
JL is good too, so is eclipse titanium, MMATS, and DD as other options.
the Infinities are great for soundQ though.. I think if you power them appropriately, perhaps with something like the JL 500/1, you'd be quite happy.
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-GlassWolf
Pioneer Stage-4, Orion, DynAudio, Fi
Posted By: Dan M C
Date Posted: July 16, 2002 at 7:35 PM
How about A/D/S/ rs.2 series for sq,made in USA too !!! they don't need too much juice,in fact they are happy with 50~300/watts per coil,my Nakamichi amp makes the 10" rs.2 sound superb in an sealed enclosure,BTW it doesn't need a big box at all,hope it helps. ------------- Dan M C
Posted By: jwhazel
Date Posted: July 16, 2002 at 9:50 PM
Hey, thanks for all of the input. It is a real big help. I've listened to some jl's (w3 and w6) in their red lined slot ported box. I was not particularly impressed at the quality. Now if I was building a spl car (which I would like to do some day) I may consider a couple of w7's.
But I'm still sort or torn between the kappas and the BA's. They both sound like they are pretty good SQ subs. Thats all that I really want is pure SQ. Anyone ever hear the mb quartz subs? I know that there components are supposed to be superior but I've never heard much rave about their subs.
Dan MC: Your post about A/D/S intrigues me. The thing that caught my eye was that you are using a Nakamichi amp so I'm guessing your pretty SQ oriented? How do the rs.2's stack up against other subs you've heard? I've heard of A/D/S amps before and was always under the impression that they were kind of low-par (like Jenson quality I guess). The reason I ask is because I am searching and can't find very much info regarding these subs. Thanks for the input.
Posted By: GlassWolf
Date Posted: July 17, 2002 at 8:28 AM
good idea. W7s are the way to go, and those are for a sealed box not a ported one (best for soundQ)
I used to be a boston dealer. I put 4 of their 8" subs across the back of a mercedes convertible. looked pretty as hell. sounded like crap. never was too fond of their subs.. may have worked better if I had more say in the design of the box but sadly the owner of teh company I worked for owned that car so he called the shots that time. heh
anyway I've been happy with Infinity.. but best advice is this: listen to both and see what you like the best. then power them well enough to let em move air like they're designed to do. under-powering any sub is a waste of work and effort on the whole. you'll be glad you gave them ample power in the end, even if ya don't play it loudly.
MB Quart's ballpark is components, not really subs. just like Alpine is good at electronics, but their speakers aren't the greatest.
a/d/s used to be very high end. then they got bought up by Directed, as did Orion, and a few other companies, and their reputation dropped like a rock. no more of the small company great service, and QA and design dropped as well for the most part. as much as I adore older a/d/s stuff, it's like Orion.. the best stuff is the older stuff. same with PPI.
a/d/s was always known mainly for their signal processors more than anything else.
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-GlassWolf
Pioneer Stage-4, Orion, DynAudio, Fi
Posted By: unclejamie2002
Date Posted: July 17, 2002 at 3:18 PM
I have to agree with glasswolf, the infinity perfect is a very musical sub(I cant say enough about mine). However, despite what some say, the perfect functions beautifly with even the most conservative wattage (500 watts rms is overkill if you ask me) check some of the reviews on this sub from some people who arent trying to sell it: https://www.carreview.com/pscCar,Audio/Subwoofers/Infinity,Kappa,Perfect,12.1/PRD_3784_1808crx.aspx let me also recomend one the cleanest amps for the $ to compliment the perfect. It's called the JBL BP1200.1 Don't get me wrong I am not a fan of JBL since I am stricly in it for the sound quality, but the JBL powervalve series amps are truly amazing in clarity and power. you can pick one up at www.ikesound.com for under $300. You can read reviews from people who baught this amp: https://www.carreview.com/PRD_30997_1806crx.aspx There are 27 reviews of this amp posted here and all of them gave it a five out of five rating so check it out. ------------- james
Posted By: jwhazel
Date Posted: July 17, 2002 at 5:13 PM
Sweet. I'm pretty much hooked on the perfects now since I can snag them for $140 a piece and the reviews seem to be pretty good. Thanks for the info about A/D/S and MB quartz. Glasswolf really knows his stuff.
Thanks for the info on the JBL but I'm sort of thrown off because it looks like class D. I would sort of like to be running all A/B for the purpose of clarity. I guess I'm pretty anal about my audio. I was originally going for the new alpine v12 f450 but now I'm sort of leaning towards a Mcintosh or Denon if I can get a hold of one of them for less than a grand.
Posted By: Dan M C
Date Posted: July 17, 2002 at 5:59 PM
Dan here,as you can see a lot of ideas,i own a BMW and i do want sound quality over volume,in fact i'm runing my A/D/S/ at 8 ohms and it sounds supreme,yes i know not to many people use Nakamichi products but i have a 4 amp system ,my ADS sub getts only 100 clean watts of NAK juice ,Nak head unit .About Mb Quart i love them but when i went sub shopping i went to buy one and i was shocked when i read ...MADE IN CHINA and that's for their reference series sub,i have theyr reference speakers but they come from Germany and they are hand made,but China...come on,on top of that i heard them and i can tell you that my A/D/S/ is far more superior product.You can't go wrong with BA they would have been my other choice but sorry no JL or Alpine but that's just my personal opinion so please post when you choose and let us know what was your choice,glad to talk to you and just a note;JEFF from Velocity Motors has helped me a lot and i feel like i can't thank the guy enought,so good luck.My other components consist of PPI eq,SONY top line active crossover,Monster Cable for all the wiring,Stinger Dream series RCA's,1 Farrad cap by Road Rage,Phoenix Gold connectors,Crankin Power battery connects,Stinger Digital cap display,Scosche half DIN in dash capacitor level indicator,MB Quart reference speakers and the tweeters are powered by Rockford Fosgate amp and the rest of my mids (4" and 5.25") are powered by two NAKAMICHI amps along with one dedicated just for the A/D/S/ 10"rs.2 sub and fot battery i have a red top Optima,good luck  ------------- Dan M C
Posted By: Dan M C
Date Posted: July 18, 2002 at 5:17 PM
jwhazel ,so what is it you decided ? ------------- Dan M C
Posted By: GlassWolf
Date Posted: July 18, 2002 at 5:24 PM
he's gonna stick with his jensen 6x9's, his 4 1800-watt pyramid amps, and his 6 roadmaster subs.
the sparkomatic tape-deck works real good with the line-level converters too!
*grin*
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-GlassWolf
Pioneer Stage-4, Orion, DynAudio, Fi
Posted By: jwhazel
Date Posted: July 18, 2002 at 6:11 PM
shutup! those 4 pyramid amps *pound*. I think I'm gonna go with an optimus to power those 6x9's. USAC here i come!
Oh, anyway I have seven hours of school and six hours of work, so sometime next week, if I ever get time next week, I think this is what my plan is (its definatley subject to change though). I'm gonna go with the Alpine 7995 (no internal amp, nice d/a converter, nice and clean, overall nice head unit). I'm gonna run that back to an Alpine mrv-f450 (5 channels, decent THD, good overall bang for the buck). At first I was going to run a set of Type R components and Coaxials because of nice conservative power handling and frequency response. But the more I hear about them, the less I want them. So I think I'm going to go Kappa Perfect all around: 1 set components, 1 set coaxials, 1 pair 10.1 subs. I particularly like the fact that the 10.1's only want like .6 cu ft of space (including displacement) and they have a max excursion of something like .35". Sounds pretty tight to me. Once I get situated and everything, I'll probably go with a cap to the amp and perhaps some additional stuff. Right now I am working on upgrading the power distribution and grounding at my battery. The subs will probably be the last thing I purchase because I've got my resin all ready but I havn't found a nice place for fiberglass yet.
So far, I think thats what I'm going with, for a good everyday driver vehicle. If someone sees some sort of glaring problem or wants to make a suggestion, I'm all ears. I am looking at those 310rs.2's but I just can't seem to find a whole lot of info on them. Do you think that they would outperform the perfects in SQ in a sealed enclosure?
Posted By: DjRDifacs
Date Posted: July 18, 2002 at 6:41 PM
if you get the infinity perfects, just make sure the get the NEW ones that just came out like a month ago ....i use to have one which sounded really really nice. there was this store here in my area that sold 'em for 120 bucks! the problem with the old ones is that they would blow all the time ....mine blew on me twice, so i gotta refund. i called infinity before i returned the sub, and the say that the old ones used some type of glue for the voice coils that would just dicenigrate around heat. he said the new ones won't happen, but but i didn't wanna chance it ... the store had a 3 strikes policy, so i talked the guy into giving me a refund.... if you wanna call infinity, their number is 800-553-3332 russ
Posted By: GlassWolf
Date Posted: July 19, 2002 at 7:57 PM
system sounds good to me.
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-GlassWolf
Pioneer Stage-4, Orion, DynAudio, Fi
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