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Stereo Setup Wiring?

Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Audio
Forum Discription: Car Stereos, Amplifiers, Crossovers, Processors, Speakers, Subwoofers, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=21987
Printed Date: June 15, 2024 at 11:17 PM


Topic: Stereo Setup Wiring?

Posted By: macka
Subject: Stereo Setup Wiring?
Date Posted: November 26, 2003 at 11:47 AM

it appears my other post are gone....

so hear goes again.

1.  is it ok to run a wire from my distribution block to my capacitor.  i.e. - it will be treated as if it is another amp wired to the OUT portion of the dist. block.  I have 2 amps and a xover wired to the same block. 

2.  What would be the best way to set up my subs:

AMP- Autotek XS900.2

175 Watts X 2 Channels @ 4 Ohms
350 Watts X 2 Channels @ 2 Ohms
450 Watts X 2 Channels @ 1 Ohm
700 Watts X 1 Channel @ 4 Ohms Bridged
900 Watts X 1 @ 2 Ohms Bridged

SUBS - Kicker SoloBaric (two of them)

S10L5 2ohm DVC, max amp power (watts) 450



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Every Day I Do!!



Replies:

Posted By: bberman1
Date Posted: November 26, 2003 at 11:55 AM

1. It doesn’t matter if you wire the capacitor before the distro or after. But if you want the benefits of the capacitor on both of your amps then I would wire it before the distro. You will also want the capacitor to be wired within 18 inches of the amp(s) for optimal performance.

2. Since your subs are 2 ohm DVC you will get the most power if you wire each sub in parallel to its own channel 450 Watts X 2 Channels @ 1 Ohm





Posted By: EzekialPhoenix
Date Posted: November 26, 2003 at 12:03 PM

I don't mean to be a thread "invader", but this is something else I don't understand.  BBerman, you recommended to run his subs in parallel to its own channel for the 450 Watts x 2 Channels @ 1 Ohm.  I am assuming that each voice coil will be "showing" each channel of the amp a 1 ohm load, so it is safe and effective.  Overall, as long as you show each channel an impedence that the amp is stable at, it is a good strategy?



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I be tossin and flossin, my style is awesome. Causin' more family feuds than Richard Dawson.




Posted By: bberman1
Date Posted: November 26, 2003 at 12:09 PM
If your wire each subs voice coils in parallel to their own channel on the amp they will get identical signals since they share the same channel, so it is safe. But if you wire one voice coil of one sub to 1 channel and the other voice coil of the same sub to the other channel then each voice coil is on a different channel, and operating independent of one another which can cause damage.  




Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: November 26, 2003 at 12:24 PM
... and just to add something, yes EzekialPhoenix, you wire an impedence load that is safe for a given amplifier channel.  So if his amp is stable at 1 ohm per channel, loading it at 1 ohm per channel is the lowest you can go.  Remember that this is a LOW limit, by the way.  The amp will work just fine (indeed, it will run cooler) into 2 or 4 or 8 or 193 ohms as well, just with lower effective output power to the voice coil.




Posted By: EzekialPhoenix
Date Posted: November 26, 2003 at 12:42 PM
Well, I am asking these questions mainly to learn more about wiring subwoofers.  I recently bought two Kicker S12L7 dual 4 ohm subs and am frantically trying to find an amp to power them.  I wish I had known more when I bought them because those subs can run at 4 ohms or at 1 ohm.  It is very tough to find a mono class D amplifier that puts out a reasonable amount of power at 4 ohms, so that leaves me with running my subs at 1 ohm, which I am not crazy about for obvious reasons.  For efficiency purposes I do not want to run my subs off of a two-channel class AB amp, so I don't really know what else to do than find an amp that is 1 ohm stable, close my eyes and hope to the car audio gods that I bought a quality amp that really is 1 ohm stable. 

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I be tossin and flossin, my style is awesome. Causin' more family feuds than Richard Dawson.




Posted By: bberman1
Date Posted: November 26, 2003 at 12:48 PM
What is your budget?




Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: November 26, 2003 at 12:56 PM
A true 1-ohm stable mono class D amplifier?  There are several, including my favorite the Planet Audio Apocolypse APD.  Also good is the JBL BPX series (NOT the BP series.)




Posted By: EzekialPhoenix
Date Posted: November 26, 2003 at 1:15 PM
My budget for an amp is anywhere up to $450.00

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I be tossin and flossin, my style is awesome. Causin' more family feuds than Richard Dawson.




Posted By: bberman1
Date Posted: November 26, 2003 at 2:38 PM
I would suggest you take a look at the Audiobahn A18001D  ( it will give you a clean 1800 watts @ 1 ohm ) https://www.audiobahninc.com/products/AMPS/amplifiers.html# , I used 2 of these when I had my Audiobahn setup, and they are some serious amps. They will do a nice job of pushing your L7's you can get the A18001DT from Just Audiobahn (who supports the 12volt.com) https://www.justaudiobahn.com for $499.00 shipped




Posted By: EzekialPhoenix
Date Posted: November 26, 2003 at 3:13 PM
Thanks for the suggestion.

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I be tossin and flossin, my style is awesome. Causin' more family feuds than Richard Dawson.




Posted By: macka
Date Posted: November 26, 2003 at 3:15 PM

Ok, so back to my questions...

bberman1-

so this will not work well (I guess this is how someone told him to wire it):

posted_image

so...should I just put the cap on the distro and then run the sub amp off of that?  Better yet, with what I have what is the best way to wire it, in your opinion.

and by the way, thank you very much for taking the time to answer my questions, I really appreciate it.



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Every Day I Do!!




Posted By: bberman1
Date Posted: November 26, 2003 at 3:32 PM

EzekialPhenix your welcome.

Maka no your diagram will not work, you need to put the cap in line with the power. So either wire it in on the power line coming in to the distribution block (the way I would do it). Or you can wire it on the line between the disro and the amp. (This will only benefit the amp that is line with) Here is a general diagram of how to hook up a cap https://www.audiobahninc.com/tech/additional/cap_wiring.pdf

 





Posted By: macka
Date Posted: November 26, 2003 at 3:40 PM

ok, I think (given my cars setup and the fact that I am about half way done already with the wiring) I am going to just put the cap inline with the sub amps.  Now my next question is If I have a ground distro block that i have grounded the 2 amps and xover to, should I follow the instructions with my cap (and your diagram) and ground it to the car seperate (wouldn't this create a grounding loop); or should/can I ground the cap to the distro block with the other 3 devices. 

Thanks again.



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Every Day I Do!!




Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: November 26, 2003 at 3:46 PM

Bberman dude, me thinks his wiring diagram will work just fine, current flows in both directions, not in and then out a different line. The only change I would make is to wire the cap to the other side of the distribution block (the second or third input) unless it is a fused distribution block, then he may want to take advatage of a fuse to protect the cap and the equipment should there be a short between the cap and somewhere else. This method also allows a better degree of safety when working on your system, disconnect the fuse at the battery and disconnect the fuse at the distribution, no more current! I have used this setup many times with all types of caps, they work for me no different than the method you describe. Missed most of this thread as I am on the West coast (Vancouver Island, B.C.) so usually I can respond a little later at night as compared to a full e-mail box in the morning. Tell me what you think about how I wired in a cap in this method.



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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: November 26, 2003 at 3:50 PM

EzekialPhoenix I would also recommend the Planet Audio APD as well as the Orion 2500D and the Audiobarn, they are all really good big powerful amplifiers.



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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: bberman1
Date Posted: November 26, 2003 at 4:05 PM
Forbidden I understand that current flows both ways but for some reason my thinking is off. I always install the cap either before the distro or inline with the amp. I have never thought to install it on its own leg on the distro block, we learn something new every day




Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: November 26, 2003 at 4:14 PM
It got me the first time as well dude, glad to help.

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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: macka
Date Posted: November 26, 2003 at 4:19 PM

You guys rock!

So what about the grounding loop thing.  If I wire the cap to the car but the 2 amps and the xover go to a distro block, is that a problem?



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Every Day I Do!!




Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: November 26, 2003 at 4:23 PM

Yes it is a big one, on cold days your car won't start or go through green lights. It does not sound like a problem, a cap is not a sound device and (correct me if I'm wrong) should not have anything to do with a ground loop.



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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: macka
Date Posted: November 27, 2003 at 12:05 AM

Cool thanks.  I only ask because someone said it would be an issue.SO, no green lights huh! Wow, do you think it will be able to stop at red lights though? posted_image



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Every Day I Do!!




Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: November 27, 2003 at 9:36 AM

IMO the cap will work fine as diagrammed and it should be grounded seperately and NOT go through a ground distru block.  Just make sure it is a good, solid, bare metal ground.  You will not set up an audible ground loop.





Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: November 27, 2003 at 1:41 PM
It makes no difference where the cap is grounded, in all installations that I have ever done with capacitors it has made no difference as to where it was grounded. Again have a look at www.lightningaudio.com and see the LL10db or LL4db cap distribution block. Do you think that a huge company like Rockford Corporation (the parent company of Lightning Audio) would make such a device knowing that it would create a ground loop situation? I think not. Am I 100% sure that it will not create a ground loop, yes until I have it happen to myself, and if and when it does I will pore over the entire install to find the cause of the problem and if it turns out to be the cap, then that's great, I know how to solve the problem.

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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: November 27, 2003 at 1:50 PM
No, I didn't say using a distru block would create a ground loop.  That's stupid, don't put words into my mouth.  But I am one of those people who thinks power supply enhancers like capacitors are largely useless, actually, and that if you do use one it should be seperately grounded.  I also think a sub amp should be seperately grounded from the rest of the system because of the noise it can create in the system, but that's another topic( somethign called SQ) and is beyond the scope here.




Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: November 27, 2003 at 2:12 PM
Wasn't trying to put words in your mouth, sorry if it was taken that way. Caps work great for dedicated purposes, I'm curios and maybe want to learn your resonings as to why you believe that the cap should be grounded separately as well as the sub amp. I've been installing for 16 + years and this is a first for me. Yes I've obviousely dealt with noise issues before and have solved them in different ways, but there is no one right way for all problems. Have I ever noticed a difference in SQ by grounding a sub amp separately from the other amp's, no not ever. Have I ever grounded amps separately, yes I have. Nothing is beyond the scope here of what people want to learn, ideas can have merit for the people who want to try them and use them. I for one like this site because it gives me information and ideas to try on my next install or to troubleshoot a past install. I may not agree with all things posted up and maybe it is an opinion or is a decision based on fact. Either way new things happen in this industry every day and I for one will not turn a blind eye to what another has to say, I am willing to learn and try, this makes for an even better degree of excellence for my valued customers.posted_image

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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: November 27, 2003 at 2:28 PM

Noise generated in the ground connection of a sub amp can affect the power stability of other amps.  So the degredation of SQ is found in the mids/highs.  I've seen dramatic differences in some setups by moving the sub amps ground to it's own location.

Caps can produce instantaneous current surges that exceed the capability of many distru blocks, thus my suggestion that they be grounded seperately.





Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: November 27, 2003 at 2:40 PM
Bang on with the scenario about current surge dude, that is why I use the Lightning Audio cap block, it has no fuses in it and was designed exclusively to work with a cap and up to 4 amnplifiers. I will pull in some of my past installs to check the scenario that you are showing above. I have never ever heard of noise generated by a connection as you are talking about. Noise generated by a bad connection, yes, but noise generated by a good connection, no. Thanks for the info and again sorry if I set you off.

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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: macka
Date Posted: November 29, 2003 at 1:04 AM

THANK YOU TO EVERYONE WHO HELPED!!!

Thanks to bberman1, forbidden and DYohn, you guys really helped me out a lot and I really appreciate it. 

Thanks to EsekialPhoenix for "trying" to steal my thread posted_image - BTW EP, I have 2 kicker S10L5 that I am pushing with an autotek xs900.2 and they bump (thanks to bberman1 telling me to hook them up using the 450watts X 2channels @ 1ohm)

So thanks again everyone, I managed to get everything installed (with your help).  Now I have to get the darn thing tuned correctly, starting with my xover then my mid/high amp and finally my sub amp

ANY SUGGESTIONS ON TUNING WOULD BE GREAT!!!!!!

(but if you don't feel like it, I understand, you guys have already helped me sooooo much)

Thanks again

macka



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Every Day I Do!!





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