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prevent speakers from blowing

Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Audio
Forum Discription: Car Stereos, Amplifiers, Crossovers, Processors, Speakers, Subwoofers, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=25509
Printed Date: May 21, 2024 at 2:09 AM


Topic: prevent speakers from blowing

Posted By: satchmoe27
Subject: prevent speakers from blowing
Date Posted: January 29, 2004 at 5:19 PM

I wanted to know if their would be any way that I can keep my sub (sony L121P5) from blowing. I have a 400s Rockford amp and just my one sub hooked up to it. The amp is rated at a rms of 400 at 4 ohms. However my speaker is only rated at 350 rms. So is their a way that I can put a fuse on the sub? If so how do I go about finding the rating. Or maybe a circuit breaker that resets automatically. Please let me know if their are any of methods to save me from buying another sub.

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screamon deamon



Replies:

Posted By: pureRF
Date Posted: January 29, 2004 at 5:23 PM
U should be fine, the amp is probably rated at 14.4 volts.

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dream it, build it, fiberglass it




Posted By: cavyman
Date Posted: January 29, 2004 at 5:55 PM
You should not be having a problem with the sub blowing.  The sub is rated to handle 350w RMS and 700w peak.  The amp you have running to the sub is rated to push out 400w x 1 RMS  It should have a peak rating at about 800, but I dont think that you would ever hit the peak wattage of the amp.  Like I said the sub handles up to 700 watts, it should not be blowing.  I would say contact the manufacturer or the person that sold the sub to you.

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1 plus 1 equals 2




Posted By: customsuburb
Date Posted: January 29, 2004 at 7:07 PM
You will be fine. Just back down over do the gain so you wont blow it( I would leave any bass boost features on the amp or cd player off also). In fact you might be getting cleaner sound with a higher wattage amp because it dosnt have to work as hard to drive you sub if you have the gain set properly!posted_image




Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: January 30, 2004 at 10:47 AM

The best advice for "keeping a speaker from blowing" is

1.  do not overpower it (I agree with the other posters that in your setup you are probably fine)

2. make sure it is installed in the proper size and type enclosure.





Posted By: Simplemitch
Date Posted: January 30, 2004 at 11:44 AM

1. You will be fine. Just back down over do the gain so you wont blow it( I would leave any bass boost features on the amp or cd player off also). In fact you might be getting cleaner sound with a higher wattage amp because it dosnt have to work as hard to drive you sub if you have the gain set properly!posted_image

2.The best advice for "keeping a speaker from blowing" is  do not overpower it (I agree with the other posters that in your setup you are probably fine)

#1 is correct. 2 is WAY off (except about the box, thats excellent advice). An oversized amp is DEFINATELY safer for a sub. The lower the gain is, the lower the THD, and consequentially, the less thermal damage to the voice coil. And again as #1 stated, leave all EQ enhancements OFF, they just reintroduce the distortion. Just be sure your gain has been properly set.



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Mitchell Whitney, Installer/technician
Mainstreet A/V




Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: January 30, 2004 at 11:57 AM

Over-powering any speaker is dangerous.  THD has nothing to do with thermal damage, unless it is very gross (like 20%.)  Please read my long post about loudspeaker power ratings.

https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=25066&KW=loudspeaker

I guess it's time for my tirade about the myth of under-power... OH, and here's a link for you from another professinal:  https://www.bcae1.com/2ltlpwr.htm





Posted By: jeffchilcott
Date Posted: January 30, 2004 at 3:33 PM
adjust the gain down for sure    you can over power a sub greatly as long as its clean power

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2009 0-1000 Trunk WR 154.0DB 2009 1001+ Trunk WR
2007 USACI World Champion
2007 World Record
2006 USACI Finals 2nd Place




Posted By: Simplemitch
Date Posted: January 30, 2004 at 6:39 PM

On Dyohns comment, i must disagree...  First of all THD does affect thermal capacity as the peaks of a distorted signal (negative arc AND positive arc) are a flat line pulse of DC, which is like effectively hooking the coil to a battery. Heat is created plain and simple, much like the coil (filament) in a light bulb. As for it being "grossly" distorted, take a look at the average schmoes self installed set-up; Head unit bass=maxed, amp gain=maxed, amp EQ/bass boost=maxed..... i would call that grossly distorted, indeed. And secondly, an "overpowering" amplifier isnt ACTUALLY supplying too much wattage if the gain is set properly. E.G., a 350 watt sub on a 400 W amp thats around half gain is not getting 400 W. It's getting 350 (give or take), just at a substantially lessened THD.  Generally speaking, though, your long post is quite accurate and will definately help educate the masses.



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Mitchell Whitney, Installer/technician
Mainstreet A/V




Posted By: geepherder
Date Posted: January 30, 2004 at 10:06 PM

Simplemitch, an amp's gain controls are used to match a headunit's outputs to an amp's inputs.  Simply stating that an amp set at half gain will not produce full power is incorrect (too broad a statement).  That all depends on how strong a signal that amp is recieving.  Yes, it's sometimes possible to turn down the gain to produce less power, but say you have an Eclipse head unit with an 8v preout- setting the gain halfway will most likely send the amp into clipping at or before half volume on the deck regardless of the amp.  Or you have an oldschool deck maybe 5-6 years old with a laughable 1volt preout (just pulling a number out of the air), and you set the amp to half gain, you won't get anywhere close to that 350 watts.



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My ex once told me I have a perfect face for radio.




Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: January 30, 2004 at 11:25 PM

Mr. Whitney, you are confusing THD (total harmonic distortion, a function of an amplifier's component quality) with clipping (over-driving an amplifier beyond it's safe operating limits.) 

It is possible for an amplifier driven into clipping to damage a speaker because it will, in effect, deliver DC voltages to the voice coils.  DC causes a voice coil to stop moving, and since movement is how the coil is cooled, can lead to overheating.  Clipping may or may not damage the speaker depending on the amount of current the amplifier's output stage is capable of delivering.  If the amplifier, even one operating in 100% clipping, cannot deliver more current than the DC rating of the voice coil, then the speaker will just sit there and get warm.  But it won't harm the speaker.  A low powered amplifier can never harm a high-power speaker.

THD will never damage a speaker by itself - unless there is so much distortion in the signal that it is actually causing or masking the fact that the amplifier is clipping.  High THD will simply sound bad.  A poorly built, cheap amplifier with high THD numbers will sound like crap whether it is clipping or not, but it will not damage the speaker unless it is delivering too much power to the voice coil.  

An amp that is capable of delivering more current than the voice coil can handle will overheat the voice coil (or overdrive the speaker, causing it to "bottom out" and stopping voice coil movement) whether it is clean (low THD as well as other types of distortion) or not.  Delivering 20 watts of clipped, noisy signal to a speaker rated for 100 watts RMS is highly unlikely to do anything other than sound bad.  Delivering 200 watts of clean power to the same speaker will eventually destroy it.  That is why, in my main business of designing non-auto sound reinforcement systems, we always allow a 2X to 3X safety factor when matching loudspeakrs to amplifiers.  The speaker must have an RMS rating 2X to 3X the RMS output capability fo the amplifier.

The most dangerous condition for a loudspeaker is being connected to too high powered an amplifier.  The second most dangerous thing is to be connected to a perfectly matched amplifier that is being overdriven and is clipping.  The third most dangerous thing is something sharp being poked through the cone.

The myth of underpower came about largely, I believe, from people buying amplifiers and large subwoofers that are propetly matched, but then not setting them up correctly because they are not satisfied with the sound.  Usually they want more bump than the amp and speaker can safely give, so they overdrive it (usually by mis-use of gain controls) and drive the amp into clipping.  Then when it dies, they are told they "underpowered" the speaker and the myth is born, and it grows and grows...

Geepherder is 100% correct.  Using amplifier "gains" (input level controls) as some sort of power limiter rather than as they were intended is, frankly, uninformed and not effective.





Posted By: Simplemitch
Date Posted: January 31, 2004 at 12:09 AM

you are correct, i was, indeed, saying THD, when i meant clipped distortion. my error. And i will also concede that an Extremely overpowering amp is a potential hazard, but the original posts "400 w amp to 350 w speaker" scenario is , in my opinion, a safe amount of excess. As for the use of the gains, yes i'm aware that they are intended to compensate for differnt H.U. output voltages (some of the older Kenwood amps had the voltages silkscreened right around the pot.), but once the appropriate level is determined i feel a little  "cutting back" can buy you some safety room. i wasnt trying to imply that it was just a "watt limiter" of some sort.  P.S. i love "dangerous condition" #3, but you should add a fourth "The average do-it-youself" consumer! The most dangerous condition of all....  



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Mitchell Whitney, Installer/technician
Mainstreet A/V





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