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multimeters

Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Audio
Forum Discription: Car Stereos, Amplifiers, Crossovers, Processors, Speakers, Subwoofers, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=32195
Printed Date: June 15, 2024 at 3:59 PM


Topic: multimeters

Posted By: xTimx
Subject: multimeters
Date Posted: May 15, 2004 at 1:27 PM

ok two Q's here. how do you use one and what type of one should i buy!?

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xTimx



Replies:

Posted By: kgerry
Date Posted: May 15, 2004 at 1:36 PM
depends on what you are using it for..... what are you planning to test?????

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Kevin Gerry
Certified Electronics Technician
MECP First Class Installer

Owner/Installer
Classic Car Audio
since 1979




Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: May 15, 2004 at 1:41 PM

I use a Fluke model 70 or 77 for basic ohms and voltage tests and a model 85 for more sophisticated tests.  I am reluctant to try and describe a "how to", but you could start with a web-based tutorial like this one: https://www.multimeterwarehouse.com/usingamultimeter.htm

The best suggestion I could probably give is for you to seek out a basic electricity or introduction to electronics course at a local community college or high school.



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Posted By: xTimx
Date Posted: May 15, 2004 at 8:27 PM
well i was wondering how to set up the amplifiers gain setting with a multimeter. but since i dont know the volts for each ohm and such. i was referring to the tutorial off of JL's website to do the gain setting. does that only work with the JL amps? or can they work with all amps?
also when doing this..do i use AC or DC for determining the output of volts!?
my system is:
1= 301x RF amp 4 channel running front and rear speakers at 4 ohms
1= 400S RF amp 2 channel running subs at 6ohms

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xTimx




Posted By: casedeez
Date Posted: May 15, 2004 at 10:50 PM

Unless you know what your doing, its a pain in the arse. If however you want to play with it by all means go ahead. When your using the meter on the amp you'll want to use the AC setting. If you want to get a whole lot of information you could check out my latest post. Theres about 4 pages of information on there. Personally the only thing I woudl suggest about using a multimeter and setting your gains is if you have two amps just use the meter to make sure both amps are set at the same level. Other than that its really not worth your time. (my opinion) Plus you'd have to get a test cd and if you buy one theyre generally aroiund the 25 dollar range. Anyway IO hope this helps and if your honest about doing it check out my post so everyone doesnt have to repeat everything they just typed to me!!!

Cheers





Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: May 16, 2004 at 9:10 AM
casedeez, I know the process seemed to escape you, but saying somethng like "it's really not worth your time" is just wrong.  Using a meter is one of the ways a professional sets up equipment.  But yes, to do it correctly assumes the installer knows how to use a meter properly and understands electrical theory.  It is NOT a simple step-by-step cookbook answer suitable for a beginner, but in most cases it is the BEST answer.

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Posted By: casedeez
Date Posted: May 16, 2004 at 1:49 PM

I realize your a professional and using a multimeter for yourself is not a problem what so ever. However for this post I believe it is suitable to say "its really not worth your time:" Reason, as you stated it is not a simple step by step process. Its not something a "beginner" should mess with. I am trying to be helpful and contribute to this forum on topics I think I know at least somewhat or have dealt with. It appears xTimx is in the same relative spot as me when it comes to using a multimeter for setting  gains. Since that is the case does it not seem appropriate to say MY opinion. On the other hand when I spoke to another professinal he stated simply that setting gains with a multimeter and being accurate is nearly impossible due to the fact that at different freqeuncies the amplifier will send different voltages and in turn your have different impedance levels. In other words you can set gains according to the meter at one specific frequency, however at different frequencies the amp will produce different, unmatched voltages. As a side note id like to think of myself as more of an amateur rather than a beginner. I dont play with stereos as a proffesional but it is more of a hobby. I have been playing with stereos since I was about 15. Im 22 now. 7 years may not be a lifetime, and I may not have went to school for it, but it certainly doesnt mean I am a beginner. (a novice, or one who is just beginning)

By no means am I trying to be sarcastic, degrading, or rude. I am simply stating my opinion and my thoughts in regards to the preceding post.

DYohn, I dont want to be looked at as a fool who shouldnt be playing with this stuff, rather a person trying to obtain knowledge. If you feel as though the process escaped me, tell me where I went wrong.





Posted By: xTimx
Date Posted: May 16, 2004 at 2:10 PM
well your both right on your terms. and casedeez, your opinion should go for everyone else on the site too! anyways. back to my Q's

on the JL audio tutorial there is a flash movie that tells you how to set up your gains on your amp using a multimeter, preferrably using a digital one, in which i DO have one. there is also a chart for getting the amp volts at diff ohms, i think i already have my 4 channel amp for volts and that is 17.3 v's for the fronts and rears but i cant quit seem to get my sub amp. keep in mind its wired in 6ohms. and it is also bridged.

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xTimx




Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: May 16, 2004 at 2:19 PM

casedeez, I stand by my comments 100%, and judging from the problems you had trying to use a multimeter I also stand by my evaluation that you are indeed a beginner in this area.  This is not a slam, it is an observation.  Please refer to my earlier post in this thread as it may help you in the future as well:

DYohn] wrote:

nbsp; I use a Fluke model 70 or 77 for basic ohms and voltage tests and a model 85 for more sophisticated tests.  I am reluctant to try and describe a "how to", but you could start with a web-based tutorial like this one: https://www.multimeterwarehouse.com/usingamultimeter.htm

The best suggestion I could probably give is for you to seek out a basic electricity or introduction to electronics course at a local community college or high school.


Please look at the tutorial I referenced.  ANYONE who thinks that learning how to do things the correct way is "not worth the time" is, in my opinion, just being lazy.



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Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: May 16, 2004 at 3:27 PM
Timx, to answer your question, Ohm's law says that voltage = the square root of power times resistance.  So, multiply the RMS wattage of your amplifer times the net resistance of your subs (6 ohms.)  Then take the square root of this number, and you end up with the voltage required to produce the RMS power.  For example, if your amplifier produces 300 watts RMS, then 300X6=1800.  Square root of 1800=42.42 volts.  To set up your amp, turn the gain all the way down, disconnect your speakers, set your head to it's maximum non-clipping output (usually around 75 to 80% volume), play a tone (for subs, 50 to 80 Hz,) connect your AC volt meter to the amp (using the same connections the speakers will use) and slowly increase the input gain until the voltage reads 42.42 (or 42) volts.  This will set your amp to produce max output when the head is sending it max input.

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Posted By: xTimx
Date Posted: May 16, 2004 at 5:12 PM
TY DYOHN your a life saver! :P but one prob...what if i dont have a test cd?! that plays seperate tones, what CD does this?

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xTimx




Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: May 16, 2004 at 6:04 PM

Somthing like this has what you need, and a few other fun goodies, too.

Cheers



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Posted By: casedeez
Date Posted: May 16, 2004 at 6:08 PM

I would have loved to learn the correct way to do this with a multimeter. However I went through and did what you described to my amp with the multimeter and a test tone and the voltage that was produced from my amp was not anywhere near what you were saying it should have been which I believe was 47.94 volts. I spent that entire day trying to figure out WHY it wasnt working for me. Perhaps I was doing something incorrectly, I dont know. I mentioned the reason why I think it is a waste of time which you havnt given a response to. You being a professional in this area should know the answer. The question or statement im referring to is that amps produce different voltages at different tones etc etc. Now perhaps there is more that goes into it, but from the standpoint I was at, and any other "beginner" is at, is the difficulty in doing this procedure without having somone who knows how to do it there with them. That is another reason I referred to it being a waste of time. I am also going to refute your comment about being lazy. I tried very hard to get this to work. I consulted people on this forum, local shops, kicker, and JL audio. Each person told me different ways to set the gains. After attempting many ways I decided to go with my standby and do it the way i have been doing it for several years. From a professional standpoint it may be wrong, but its what I know and it works. In all seriousness I would love to learn more about it however I cant afford to take college classes, which I am already taking a loans out for anyway. Although this forum is probably the most benificial thing I have found for mobile audio, some things I would just learn better seeing. Beginner in using a multimeter, yes, what I was refering to was car audio in general. I am going off the definition that beginner is someone who starts or BEGINS something. Amateur is someone who enjoys it as a hobby or pastime.

xTimx- If you cant find a place that sells test cd's you could get a program called NCH tone generator. You would need to have a cd burner though. I dont want you to think that I think you shouldnt try this. You can learn a great deal just playing with it, and if you listen to what some of the people on this forum say, people like DYohn Forbidden stevedrt and several others you are going to learn a lot.





Posted By: stevdart
Date Posted: May 16, 2004 at 9:01 PM
You can download this trial version sine wave generator and make a CD of test tones in a couple of hours.  I used it to make one, check the help menu for recording sine waves.  You can record the .wav files for as long as you want, so for testing make some files at least 5 to 10 minutes long.  You don't have to pay for the shareware, just make your CD while it's free.

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Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.




Posted By: xTimx
Date Posted: May 16, 2004 at 9:20 PM
SWEET! casedeez your also a life saver! haha. right on. i never knew such a thing existed! anything else that your guys arent telling me about?! lol


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xTimx




Posted By: stevdart
Date Posted: May 16, 2004 at 9:32 PM
You mean something like the automatic foolproof amp gain setting robot?  Not telling you about that one!

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Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.




Posted By: Teken
Date Posted: May 16, 2004 at 10:48 PM
stevdart wrote:

You mean something like the automatic foolproof amp gain setting robot?  Not telling you about that one!


LMFAO...posted_image

Regards

EVIL Teken . . .




Posted By: xTimx
Date Posted: May 17, 2004 at 3:05 AM
AW C"MON STEVDART, PLEASE! i'm sure EVERYONE would like to hear this one! including rob and dyohn! :P but that would be so cool to have...(snaps out of dreaming)

i have another Q. is there a tone that would be the same as another tone. for example if i'm needing to get 1khz, is there a hz for being the same as 1khz (1khz=380hz?)

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xTimx




Posted By: stevdart
Date Posted: May 17, 2004 at 7:21 AM
1 Khz = 1000 Hz

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Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.





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