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amp total power

Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Audio
Forum Discription: Car Stereos, Amplifiers, Crossovers, Processors, Speakers, Subwoofers, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=39719
Printed Date: June 16, 2024 at 1:59 AM


Topic: amp total power

Posted By: curt234
Subject: amp total power
Date Posted: September 25, 2004 at 10:15 AM

How do they rate the power from an amp? To mean it seems misleading?




Replies:

Posted By: kgerry
Date Posted: September 25, 2004 at 10:57 AM

in what respect?  they usually give an RMS value is is fairly honest, and then the maximum power at 90% THD which is useless...

i saw a (well known brand) amp come through here the other day that boasted 1000 watts on the heat sink, yet was fused with a 30 amp fuse, so i looked up the specs in the service manual...it was 300 watts RMS.... maybe i'm just old ( i am ) but i remember when amplifier companies gave you honest ratings based on a reasonable THD level, like less than 1%.....



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Kevin Gerry
Certified Electronics Technician
MECP First Class Installer

Owner/Installer
Classic Car Audio
since 1979




Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: September 25, 2004 at 11:05 AM

Well, actually it IS INTENDED to be misleading, especially in lower-end and mass-market consumer products.  As soon as marketing people figured out that people will buy audio products based on the listed power output, much of the truth in ratings went out the window.  Especially in car audio (but also in home gear and in computer audio) there is a false perception that "more watts = better."  So many manufacturers 'inflate' their ratings.  It is sad.

Not that I think manufacturers lie; undoubtedly the gear will do what they say.  But not necessarily in ways that are listenable.  I have tested car amps listed as "1000 watts" that do, indeed, produce peak output of 1000 watts.  But this is achieved at 20% THD and with severe 50% clipping.  This amp's max output before clipping was a whopping 64 watts!  So did the manufacturer lie?  No, the amp could produce 1000 watts without blowing the internal fuses.  Was the rating misleading?  Yes, very.

Look for ratings at 12 Volts, and less than 1% (0.1% is better) THD into 4 ohms (or higher) and they MIGHT be accurate and reflect what you can expect to get out of the amp.  Ignore "peak" or "music power" ratings.



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Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: September 25, 2004 at 2:05 PM
I wish we could take a flamethrower to these companies that outright produce misleading information like this. This is one of my big issues about the industry.

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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: aggie altima
Date Posted: September 25, 2004 at 3:54 PM
So what exactly is dynamic power? Most companies seemed to use dynamic power as the peak power of the amplifier. MTX has ratings for "RMS Power 12.5 VDC" at 2 and 4 ohms, and "Dynamic Power 14.4 VDC" at 2 and 4 ohms. Some online retailers state MTX's "Dynamic Power" as RMS.

EX. MTX Thunder1501D has a dynamic power 14.4 VDC at 2 ohms of 1500 Watts x 1. So is this its peak or RMS watts at 14.4 VDC?

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Jon
Don't like rockford subs? Then don't look at my car =)




Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: September 25, 2004 at 5:08 PM

In general, "Dynamic" is a code word for "peak."  AKA "Peak Music Power" or "Dynamic Headroom."  All made-up words for peak instantaneous (<10ms) output..

RMS refers to voltage and current, by the way.  Power is power.  The so-called RMS ratings are the number of watts the amplifier can sustain based on maximum RMS voltage and current capability.  But it is the best indication of true amplifier output... assuming the distortion rating is also suitably low.  I know of at least one poor-quality manufacturer (think fake German-sounding name) who rate their amps as "RMS Watts" but do not list distortion numbers.  When the amp was tested, it produced the rated power but at 15% distortion!  Recipe for burned voice coils....



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Posted By: aggie altima
Date Posted: September 26, 2004 at 9:42 PM
Thanks for clearing that up DYohn. I wasn't sure if MTX was using the term dynamic as other companies were, and it's confusing since they don't list RMS watts at 12.5 AND 14.4 volts like I'm used to seeing.

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Jon
Don't like rockford subs? Then don't look at my car =)




Posted By: jeffchilcott
Date Posted: September 27, 2004 at 6:00 PM
if the company doesnt list a THD, or a rms rating for any such catagory i tend to stay away

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2009 0-1000 Trunk WR 154.0DB 2009 1001+ Trunk WR
2007 USACI World Champion
2007 World Record
2006 USACI Finals 2nd Place




Posted By: Ravendarat
Date Posted: September 27, 2004 at 7:07 PM
For the record that MTX amp was listing the real RMS power that it could produce. Check the Birthcertificates for the exact ratings.

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double-secret reverse-osmosis speaker-cone-induced high-level interference distortion, Its a killer




Posted By: aggie altima
Date Posted: September 28, 2004 at 4:22 AM
Okay, I'm confused again (and a little sleepy). Ravendarat, are you saying that the 1501D is supposed to push 1500 watts RMS at 2ohms with 14.4 VDC? and if that is the case, are they using "dynamic" as RMS?

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Jon
Don't like rockford subs? Then don't look at my car =)




Posted By: Paradigm
Date Posted: September 28, 2004 at 9:47 AM

Back when I first started in car audio as a hobby (in the early 90's), I was very turned off about MTX's amps. The sales guy at HH Gregg had told me at the time about their "dynamic" power rating/headroom and how they were so much better than the competition because of this fact. I immediately said "I think I'll look a round a little more, thanks" and haven't really given MTX a very serious thought since. Not saying that MTX isn't any good, it's just if that's what they were training their sales people to say, then they can count on me NOT being their customer.

I have to laugh at all the claims that I see in regards to wattage whenever I get the urge to look for something new. "760 total watts x 4!" when really it is more like 30 watts x 4 @ 4 ohms.



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VEHICLE: 2002 GMC Sonoma ZR2
Alpine CDA-7940
AudioControl EQT x2
JL Audio 1000/1
JL Audio 10W6 (originals) x3
Kicker ZR120
Kicker ZR460
Polk GXR-6 x4
Polk GXR-4 x2




Posted By: Ravendarat
Date Posted: September 28, 2004 at 9:54 AM
Yes what I am saying is that amp produces that much power RMS at 2 ohms at 14.4 volts. Reason why I said look at the birth Cirtificates is that that lists the true power for that specific amp. For the record I have never delt with a better company then MTX in regardess to their rep and their Training seminars, I have sold kicker, jvc, pioneer, Rockford,kenwood,sony,infinity, jbl, ultimate (shudders), and Quart (breifly) and none of them were even close to the level of support that MTX gives. I also would take their gear over any of the other stuff I have listed, wouldnt even think twice about it.

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double-secret reverse-osmosis speaker-cone-induced high-level interference distortion, Its a killer




Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: September 28, 2004 at 9:57 AM
Agreed, MTX makes fine gear.  But their listed "Dynamic" power is still a peak rating.  They also list RMS output seperately.

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Posted By: racer427
Date Posted: September 28, 2004 at 10:45 AM

I am a true MTX fan, they do give you the true RMS ratings at 12.5 volts before they give you the dynamic power ratings at 14.4volts. A buddy of mine runs a Licenesed MTX repair facility and has tested many MTX amps over the years, even the very early models. They have all performed as stated by MTX. MTX is one of the reputable companies out there as far as ratings are concerned.

  I myself am looking to purchase an MTX 1501D mono amp to power my MTX 8104's. It is rated at 1000 watts RMS at 2omhs 12.5v and 1500 peak at 14.4. The amp will actually put out almost  1700 at 14.4v as tested by my friend and some of MTX's birth sheets will show this as well. MTX all the way.



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Alpine CDA-9833 HU
Diamond Audio M661 Components
MTX Thunder T6.6 Components:rear fill:
Cadence Q400 4 Channel Mains + rears
Thunder 801D Subs
MTX 1004 10's
Dual 4g wire to rear
4g grounds




Posted By: padawan
Date Posted: September 28, 2004 at 10:49 AM
I agree, MTX is a top notch company, love thier amps...Their subs are....well, ok.





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