SQ system that won't take up a lot of room?

i'm in need of some help on a system setup that will sound good but not take up alot of room. i listen to r&b, country, pop, rock, and some rap. i was told by a friend who has a system as well that i'd be happy with one 12 inch or two 10 inch subwoofers. here's what he said i'd be happy with....

12inch alpine type r wired in 2ohms to get 500watts
sealed box
alpine mrd-m500. 500 watts @ 2ohms
infinity kappa perfects 3-way 6.5 speakers and 6x9
8ga kit
pioneer deh-p80mp (same cd player my friend has)

i dont want it loud but i want it to sound good. is my friend giving me good advice, or would anyone recomend something better for the type of music i listen to? or would i be happier with some 10 inch subwoofers? i also dont want to spend too much money because i have a crappy job til college starts. i found this forum by searching around the net so it looked like alot of people help on this forum. i just need some good sound besides stock. if anyone can help a girl out, i'd be happy. thnx

also i might be getting a nissas xteria in a few months. if i get that stuff to put in my eclipse, will it still sound good in the xteria?

Disagree with boulderguy's "general rules" on the difference between 12" and 10" subwoofers.  There's no reason to believe that because a cone is a bit smaller that the sound will be more "tight" or accurate.  But I mostly agree with what he generally says....

I agree that an amplifier is needed for the main speakers (don't power anything with the deck).  But all in all, your friend seems to be giving you some sound advice.  And I would recommend a 12" for your SQ system.  A 12" in a 1 cu. ft. box takes up very little room.  However, keep this in mind:  the sub will get very little action with your music preferences.  Your choice of ...and installation of... amplified front components will either make or break your system.

And BTW...it always sounds good in your next car.  You've got experience by then!

I'll rephrase that - The 12" may have a bit more output, the 10" may sound a bit tighter, assuming all other things are equal & the subs are comparable.  Unless you're particular, you probably won't notice a difference at this stage.  Better yet, listen to several different ones & pick the sound you like.

Trying to give the most generalized info that will help with your decisions.  Is it possible to get a 3 or 4 channel amp & use half for the sub & the other half for your front speakers?  Then you could run the rears on the head unit outputs and have much better front SQ, which is where most the music is anyway.  It would definitely be money well spent. 

And don't feel like you have to have the same CD player your friend has - find the one you like.  Unless you're into equipment the way we are, the biggest factor will probably be ease of use.  (someone's gonna tear me up over that statement!)

ok, so what i got out of everything is the 12 inch will be more loud than the 10. it'll have more bass. would 500 watts be to much for what i'm looking for? the friend told me that i could always adjust the settings on the amp and cd player if the bass is too loud, and i'd be happier with a 12 than a 10. and yes i forgot to mention that the bigger the box, the better sound, so i planned on letting him get me the box. what i meant by less room was i didnt want a huge box filled with more than 1 subwoofer. so i only wanted 1. he said 2 will have better sound, and i could get 2 subwoofers that could equal 500watts give or take some. but i want more space, so 1 will do.

so as of now, i plan on picking the alpine type r 12 inch with the alpine 500 watt amp (or something with the same watts but different brand, and cheaper).  the correct size box.  some good 3-way speakers up front and rears. i asked him about running the rears off the cd player and he said it's fine, and a 2nd amp for the fronts would put out better sound than the cd player, but didn't think it'd matter for what i'm looking for. it'd be a waste to add another amp and all the accessories for the 2nd amp when i just want a better sound than stock (which is about anything) but i'll end up going with a 2nd amp to just use for the front speakers to have nice sound. i'll be letting him install it all.

so, what i'm asking is, to make sure he knows what he's talking about, and i spend my money on good sound, not crap. is everything I picked out will sound good in a eclipse. thnx

All right, I think I got it.  Sounds like your friend knows a bit about car stereo, but it also sounds like he's building you a system that he'd like, not necessarily what you'd like.  That's the problem you'll run into having someone else pick your system for you - everyone has a different idea of what sounds good and "right."  Can you describe what "something that sounds good" means to you?  Stunning detail, powerful bass notes, crisp highs, accurate vocals, drum solos, or just something that sounds good at volume?

The original plan would create a system that's very bass-intensive IMO.  Adding a second amp with about 35-50wpc up front for the mains will balance that out well if you're using a single sub, 10" or 12" with about 250w to it.  That system will be balanced - is that what you're looking for? 

Now if you opt for 500w into a single sub you've got the same problem - bass heavy system.  Fine if that's your thing but it doesn't sound like it.  I'd stick with a single sub w/about 200-250w or so to it.  And I'd pick a good 10" over the 12" - probably not much difference in their sound, but the 10" will fit into a smaller box which is in line w/ your goals.  This "bigger box = better sound" is a load of crap, don't buy it.  Most 10" subs need a sealed box with about .7-1.0 cu feet of space.  Going bigger will probably sound worse.

what you really need to do is swing by the shop you're getting all this at & have them rig up a system similiar to what you're thinking in their listening room.  This is especially important with the front speakers.  Hear the difference between 250 and 500w of sub power, deck powered speakers vs amp powered speakers, sealed sub box vs ported sub box.  While you're at it, listen to good speakers without a sub vs with a sub - you may find that your listening habits don't need a sub.  If so, take the extra money & buy a better front amp & speakers - the gains will be huge.

If you do go with a sub, I'd recommend something already mounted in a matched box, preferably sealed (my ears like that, you'rs may not).  Either way, it'll take some potential for problems out of the equation.  Good luck.

thnx for the responses. first i'll get a cd player, with some good front speakers and rear speakers, run the front speakers off a amp, and the rear off the cd player, and if i'm satisfied with the sound, i'll leave it at that. once i get the important things put in (what i listed) i'll go ahead and run another rca wires to the cd player incase i want to add another amp for the sub(s), instead of messing with the dash to take the cd player out a 2nd time. and if i want a little bass afterwards, i'll look into a single 10 inch or a single 12 inch. or maybe two 10 inch, with the right amp. then i should be satisfied.

would one 12 inch or one (or two) 10' inch make the car rattle? (a guess that is) thats one thing i dont like about loud music is the car sounds like it's gonna fall apart. i like to have mine sound good, and no rattles.

and about what you said boulderguy, i want it to sound good, like clean bass but not a whole lot, with "sort of" loud highs and mids, but nothing to hurt your ears. thnx again for the replies.

Just put some weather stripping behind the license plate to stop it from rattling. Cheap inexpensive way to stop that problem. As for the rest of the car,...that could be a problem depending on how old it is and if it already has a few squeeks and rattles just from every-day life out on the road.

I don't think your volume levels will cause any rattling issues, just be sure everything's attached to the car.  Panels etc have a way of working themselves loose over time.  I think you've got a good plan there about leaving the sub as an option for later. 

Like Stevdart said before, your choice of speakers & amp and the install quality will make or break this system, so be sure to listen to a lot of speakers before you buy.  Good speakers tend to sound "full" at volume, poor speakers sound "loud."

ok. since you said 500watts may be to "bassy" then would 1 12 inch alpine type e (250watts rms) be a better choice, or the alpine type s (300 watts rms)? i want bass but i also want it to sound good, so would either of those be better than the 500watt type r? i think i might go with a 12 than a 10 just because the 12 will be more bassy.

so, which would you recomend? type e or type s for a sound quality sound system?

and what  would be agood amp to power a type e (250wrms) or a type s (300wrms) both 4ohm DVC.

thnx

The type - S will produce better quality most likely, but frankly I doubt if you'll notice any real difference between the 2.  Of far more importance is the quality of the box it's in - a cheap sub in the right box will sound better than a great sub in the wrong box.  Focus on that.  If it were me I'd get the S sub and put the money saved (over the type R) into better front speakers, that'll have the most impact on your enjoyment of this IMO. 

Seems you're putting a lot of emphasis on the subs in this system, but yet youre looking for a sound quality setup.  Subs are important, but remember that they only represent the bottom 10% of the music you're listening to - not much.  It's only going to compliment your front speakers, that's all.

Amps - two choices here.  Either go with a sub amp, class D most likely, with about 250-300w @ 4 ohm.  If you want to boost output, wire the sub with both VC's for 2ohm & you'll get a lot more bass.  Then add a front amp, 2x50wpc or so.

Or, get a 4-channel amp (like the Alpine F345) that you can run in 3 channel mode to do all the work.  JL audio has some good choices in their E series amps.  It's going to boil down to what configuration of amp(s) will give you what you need at the right price.

A good system is one that has tonal balance and is properly matched together. If you are considering a sub system of any type, for most people who want lots of bass, this most often results in a tonal imbalance to the rest of the system. To make it a better match, consider an amp rated at about 50w x 4 to power the front / rear soeakers.

i'm back again needing some help. can someone tell me or show me a link to some good 3-way 6.5inch door speakers and 6x9inch speakers, with a good amp to power those 4 speakers? i want a good brand that will sound good, and I was looking at the Infinity Kappa speakers but those are too expensive for me. are there any better or as good as those, but less expensive? I want at least 100wattsrms or more (depending on what you think will fit the system I've been explaining in my previous posts) plus the amp to power them. if  anyone can help, i'd apreciate it.

as for the rest of the stuff, I got it picked out, but i got 1 question about the sub/amp combo.

1 (one) 4 ohm Alpine SWS-1242D 12" subwoofer. 300watts RMS
1 Alpine MRP-M350 Class-D mono amp. (350wrms @ 2ohms) to power the type s
Pioneer DEH-P80MP or the DEH-P7700MP
cheap 8gawg amp kit from Wal*mart (Sosche is the name, I think)
16ga speaker wire

If I gave the sub 50 more watts than what it's rated for, will that harm anything, or do you think it can handle 50 more watts? from the last info. 300watts - 350watts will be plenty, and I asked my friend and he said 300watts is pretty good and i'd be happy with it.

and which cd player is the best route? or do you guys know something better?

any advice will help. thnx again!

another question, how would you run the speaker wire from the amp in the trunk to the door speakers without having wires hanging everywhere? how would that go inside the door to the speakers? and i read some come with crossovers (or maybe all..not sure. i'm new at this) what do those do, and how does that hook up?

thnx again

and can you give me advice on the other questions?

thnx

I concur with forbidden - 50 watts to your fronts and rears should be more than enough for what you want to do.

Head units - Alpine is still a good brand, maybe Clarion also. I was impressed with the Kenwood Excelon's from a few years back, but don't know much about how they are now.

As far as running wires from the trunk to the doors, you'll have to unscrew the plastic around the door frame to allow you room to work, then feed the wire under the carpet up toward the front. Kinda hard to explain, but it's not to hard once you've done it. Behind the rear seat is not sealed completely off from the cabin, so you should be able to find a crevice through which to feed the wire to the front of the vehicle.

Coaxial speakers (what it sounds like you want) - you could get Alpine Type S coaxials to match what you have in the trunk, if you're into the whole "branded" concept (all things being from the same company). Those shouldn't break the bank.

Hope that helped some.

Oh Micah, now I'm concerned.  I thought your friend was good with this stuff, but your questions make me think it's his first install (or he has speaker wires hanging all over his car).  I don't know what your budget situation is, but you should seriously consider having a pro install this stuff, it will make a world of difference in sound quality & how long it all lasts.

Your system choices look fine so far, but if it were me in your shoes I'd forgo the sub & sub amp altogether & go with a simpler system installed by a shop.  Cost should be even less, and it's easy to add a sub later on.  For head units, I like the Panasonics for the money - good quality & great value.

For speakers, there's no replacement for going & actually listening to them - actually no excuse not to.  There are HUGE differences between speakers, you really need to find the ones that "fit" your ears.

No prob on the sub/amp power difference.  Just turn it down before you hear distortion, that's what cooks speakers, not too much power, usually.

What car is this going into?

It's going in a 2004 Eclipse.

i'll check into the alpine type s speakers like Para. mentioned. i'll have my friend match an amp up for me when I get the speakers picked out. so the sub/amp combo. is more likely what i'll get. i just need to find a good cd player with speakers and amp. i'll let him figure that out for me, since he seems to have good taste.

he's got a 2001 (i think) Blazer with two JL Audio (not sure what type) 12's with a JL audio amp. Infinity Kappa's ran off the cd player, but he's gonna add a 2nd amp to those, but never has yet. (Thats how I heard of the Kappa's since he said they're good speakers) and he has a Pioneer cd player. I believe it's the DEH-P9600MP. he doesn't have wires hanging all over the place. he actually did a good job on his install. he did all of his stuff so I trust him on picking out my stuff and installing it. he's gonna show me how to hook everything up cause I wanna learn. so i was asking for myself about the wires, so sorry for the confusement. he showed me a couple Pioneer cd players on ebay that were good. the P80MP, P7600MP, P7700MP. he's a big fan of the pioneer cd players if you haven't nocticed. haha. he told me alot of brands to stay away from. Legacy, Pyramid, audiobahn, and some others i can't think of. and anything that wal*mart sells. haha. and ebay will be my cheapest route to get all my "bigger" equipment. (Sub, amps, speakers, cd player, etc.)

I like how his sounds, but sometimes it gets "too" loud for my liking. i'm basing his sound from the sound I want inside my head. but trying to explain it on this forum, which I hope I did a decent job doing. but so far it looks like i got everything picked out besides the important things, which i'll check into/ask about the alpine type s speakers with matching 4-channel amp. i'll update you guys on what happens. thnx for all the help, i appreciate it.

***EDIT****

after looking on ebay, i found alpine SPS-690A 6x9 3-way speakers, 50wrms. and Alpine SPR-17LS 6.5" component speakers, 70wrms. Would 50 in the rear, and 70 in the front sound crappy? or would it be ok? Should I run all 4 speakers off an amp, or just the front door speakers since those are more important?

on ebay it said 250wrms but on the box in the picture it shows "250w peak - 50w rms".  Are they 50watts (rear) / 70watts (front) combined together or that many watts a piece? just curious.

Yeah, speakers don't have "watts," it's just a recommendation as to how much power they're built to handle.  Virtually any aftermarket speaker like you're looking for will be fine with 50wpc, so don't worry about that.

Ebay's great if you know what you're looking for, bad news if you don't.  Right now your only basis for comparison is this guy's system which sounds seriously bass-heavy to me.  Go to Best Buy or Circuit City and waste their time for an hour listening to different gear & configurations.  It's really tough to make good decisions until you know what sounds like what.  Try to build your system there on their soundboards.

I think you're better off with a front 2-channel amp and powering the rears on the deck.  Pioneer decks are fine, I don't think there's anything special about them over anything else.  As long as they sound comparable, I pay attention to how easy it is to use b/c I don't want to think about it while driving.  Volume knob instead of buttons, lg display, etc.

thanx for more replies, i appreciate it. i also have another question to ask about the door speakers and the amp for those. i'm gonna use the cd player for the rear speakers, which will be the alpine type r 6x9 and the doors will be the 6.5" type r's as well. i found an amp (on my own...if i'm correct lol) that will match up the wattage to the door speakers. the door speakers are 70watts rms and they're 4ohms and this amp is an Alpine MRP-F240 and the specs. on it are.

and lastly, i dont think anyone answered this previous question, if i gave the sub 50 more watts than what it's rated for (300wrms - 4ohm) and the amp will be 350wrms @ 2ohms, which I can only power the sub in a 2 or 8 ohm load. (from what my friend said) Will it be safe to give it 50 more watts?

tnx again guys!

All that will work, but for what you want to do I think 40wx2 to the fronts is plenty - balance, remember?

what type of amp spec. should i look for if i'm gonna power the 2 6.5" alpine type s speakers, along with the alpine type s 6x9? both speakers are 4ohms, and 50wrms. so i'll be need 100wrms amp for all 4 speakers, right? i wanted to stick with alpine amp for those, but if there's something cheaper and as good as that, can you show me?

also, do i need the amp with the specs of...

2 x 100 watts at 4ohm  ??

if i'm wrong, can someone point me in the right direction?

thnx

if cost is an issue alpine produce are cheep at www.ikesound.com

i just got around to getting back online. i did what you guys told me, i went to Circuit City a few weeks ago to look at cd players and door/rear speakers. honestly all of them sounded the same. (must be my ears then) they mostly had sony's and pioneer's but i'm still going to go with the alpine type s. she let me listen to the 10" L5 which didn't impress me. they also had 2 12" Infinity's and a bunch of Audiobahns, and the new kicker comps. so after listening to the speakers I left because she was being a b*tch and wouldn't let me hear most of the equipment. (which is what i thought they were there for but owell)

then my friend told me about another unknown car shop that near here. we stopped and they had ALOT of Kicker Comps, JL Auido, Memphis, and the SOLO X 18, and the 12" alpine type r's which he didn't have them hooked up in the display room, only the alpine type S 10" which I thought sounded like crap. (but i know it'll be different in a car than the sound room, plus he said the walls on the display room made them sound more like crap) and then he kept asking me why I liked Alpine, and why would I want Alpine when I can get the new Kicker CompVR's. I tried to tell him my taste and that I was pointed to the alpine's because they would fit my taste. but he wouldn't play the type r's, he kept telling me he could install those new kicker compVR's and i'd be more happier (by this time my friend had already left so i couldn't use his help) and he kept telling me the alpine are more expensive and i'd be satisfied with kicker, etc. etc. so i just told him I'd come back later. He was really obsessed with those Kicker's, which my friend told me they're good, but they're too "loud". Kicker is made for "trying to bust your ear drums instead of sounding good" is what he told me. Haha. so basically it was pretty pointless.

i'm still gonna go with the equipment posted earlier in this thread. I know i'd be happy with all alpine set up cept for the pioneer cd player. i just thought i'd share my experience.

micahsmith 00 wrote:

---

Kicker is made for "trying to bust your ear drums instead of sounding good" is what he told me.

---

That is funny - I can see the designer's at Kicker huddled up & saying, "Let's design all our stuff to hurt people."

I don't know why you're married to Alpine stuff either, but I'm sure you've got your reasons.  Good luck, let us know how it comes out.