Deciding proper capacitor with Amp

Alright, im in the middle of my system. (although it's goin to be a while before it's finished due to the fact that I;m deployed) regaurdless, I've been buying equipment to finish my system and i was wondering what farad would be good for my amps. I always have a bad habit of over dueing my projects, which i guess really isn't a bad thing. Just what I do. Anyways, I currently have 2 0/1 AWG power wires running back for my amps, and i was goin to have each one have its own seperate capcitor. Here's my question. I've seen them all the way from 1 to 50 farad. What would be the required or recommened number. I know it depends on my amp output, but if someone could possibly give me like a base line, that would be great. Oh and also, when i get the caps. I know you have to do something with them to charge them. But if someone could please tell me what that was that would be great as well.

Thanks.

Dave

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front leaning rest postion MOVE

There is no proper cRapacitor. Buy an alternator. A cap is a band-aid on a bullet wound.

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

ok, well i already have a highout put alt, and a yellow top optima. i just want to get everything needed while i have the time

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front leaning rest postion MOVE

If your dead set on getting a second storage cell to stabilize during massive power draws go with a kinetic power cell, even the smallest one is rated to provide as much power as 100-1 farad caps.

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you shouldnt need a cap..... save your money

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Kevin Gerry
Certified Electronics Technician
MECP First Class Installer

Owner/Installer
Classic Car Audio
since 1979

Get a Kinetik or any other power cell...caps wouldn't do squat

noakes75 wrote:

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ok, well i already have a highout put alt, and a yellow top optima. i just want to get everything needed while i have the time

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General rule of thumb for us is 1.5 farad for every 1,000 watts. Most industry "standards" will state 1 farad, 1000 watts.

Second is to think about how many amps your alternator is and how much it needs to be. Look at all your amps and add up all the fuses together + 35 (average vehicle draw) + 15 (average factory HU) this is the minimum your alternator should be in order to keep it hitting hard continuously.

If you are a bit on the shy side (30 amps or less) a cap will work fine. It doesn't hold as much energy as your average vehicle battery, but it dissapates the stored energy faster with little to no fluctuation in voltage and without deep cycling.

If you are 30 amps shy, for example, @ 14.4 volts, expect a 1 farad cap to hit full power for about 2 seconds. It doesn't sound like a long hit, but humor us and hum for a full two seconds... How often have you heard a bass hit that long and that hard. For most songs running at about 120-150 bpm (average HipHop, Rap, R&B song), the cap should be recharged by the next hit.

As for charging, the cap charges as the system plays and then discharges when it senses a slight drop in voltage. Caps are good if you have short bursts of high energy sound, but they do not maintain sustained energy draw for any longer than a second or so when the amp is running 1000 watts through 1 farad cap.

Caps do have their place in systems. 1 Farad is the equivilent of giving your average car (at 14.4 volts) a 70 amp boost for 1-2 seconds. Enough for a heavy hit on your subs primarily. The application will determine whether or not you need them.

We hope this clears up and gives you a bit of guidance. If you follow the math we offered, that will tell you whether or not you need caps or another alternator upgrade more.

If you have any other questions, please don't hesistate to ask.

Good Luck!

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Never send your ducks to eagle school.
The difference between ordinary and extraordinary is that little extra.
The 3Ls of life: Learn from the Past, Live for the Present, Look to the Future.

bellsracer wrote:

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We hope this clears up and gives you a bit of guidance. If you follow the math we offered,

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I've been wondering about this, so just humor me...

Are you a group of people or are you one individual doing a Gollum kinda thing?

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Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.

There is a group of us. The primary team consists of 3 girls and 3 guys followed by our support team and secondaries (outsourcing). Snow, Kit, Kei, D, Tek, and myself (Bry) make the primary team. Most of us can do it all but each of us specialize in a particular area.

Primary Team:
Snow: Art (body graphics)
Kit: Digital Art (for modified electronics)
Kei: Finances & Psychology ("reads" our customers to maximize effect)
D: Leader, Owner, Engineering
Tek: Technologist.
Myself: Resources and Tracking.

Secondary Team is our business side of the shop. They ask that they are not mentioned in here.

I'm usually on here between jobs and once and a while, some or all of the team will be with me.

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Never send your ducks to eagle school.
The difference between ordinary and extraordinary is that little extra.
The 3Ls of life: Learn from the Past, Live for the Present, Look to the Future.

alright, sorry it took me so long to get back. but as i already said, im in Iraq and the internet sometimes goes down for days here.

alright, you said that i need to take all the fuses from my amps and add them, then put it against the alternater to see how it adds up. i understand that part. but with the amps im useing (MA Audio products), i dont know if they over protecting they're product or what, but it has 3 30s in each one. I'm useing two. And for the four channel it's useing 2 20s. so you can see where this is going in a hurry. 3X30X2= 180.   2X20 =40.  plus the power the engine needs to run. 35+15. add them all up and I'm getting 270. My alternater is rated for 160 amps. unless I'm doing this all wrong i have a differance of 110 amps. So, now my question is again. how would i offset this to make there to be less drain on my electrical system in the car, and keep the amps to their maximum effeciatncy.

also, would caps be more useful then the Kinetik power cell? like aznboi suggested? i've built systems before (not the im a pro or anything. so im not saying that) but ive never had to deal with this before and sorta new to the caps and extra power cells so be easy on me.

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front leaning rest postion MOVE

alright, i understand that a cap is only effective if your charging system is up to par. so now it appears that i need another upgrade on my alternater like you said. do you know of anywhere that i could find a bigger one? i've looked around (online primarly due to my current situation) and came up with only the 160.

i know this may sound ludacris, but work with me. can you/is it practical to get a second alternater thus running two at once? like i said, im kinda new to having to keep the charging system up to par. in the past either my system didn't require this kind of power, or i just didn't worry about it. but now, i'd like to do it the proper way. also, i'm leaning towards these kinetik cells, and i had another question. once i get the charging system to where it needs to be, how many of these cells would you recommend. I wanted to get a minimum of two just due to the way im running the wires.

I'm planning on hiding them in the side compartment of the extended cab on a 03 s-10. so I'm not to worried about the looks. i was planning on building a platform for them, then encloseing them in. And finally puttin the box clean up to the wall, thus removing the sign of these cells, nothing against them. its just that i dont like to keep them out in the open for everyone to see.not the most attractive thing in my opionion.

oh one more thing. i found these cells for a little over $100.00 a peice shipped to my home. is that a good price, or should i keep looking?

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front leaning rest postion MOVE

*Butthead/on*   Caps SUCK   *Butthead/off*

*Beavis/on*     hehe yeah ...  they suck   *Beavis/off*

LOL, just kiddin' ... but they aren't the first choice ... a cap should be the last thing to try.

As an earlier response mentioned, a cap is a band aid.

Upgrade the Alternator's charge wire, the Battery neg terminal-to-chassis wire, and ground the alternator to the chassis. Use 0/2 gauge cable, since you are using 0/2 to power the audio system.

If you are still having power delivery problems, get a better Alternator.

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Damn - I nearly forgot the most important thing...

noakes75 - THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE!! If it wasn't for you guys doing that, we wouldn't be able to do this.

                                                                               GET SOME!

 

Come Home Safe!

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Ok...to clear this up...I did not say that a cap would be better than a Kinetik power cell...I suggested the power cell over the cap

The name of the alternators if Iraggi alternators.    He does have an ebay store.     He can supply you with a REAL 300+ amp alternator if you would like one.    I am also having alot of good experience with High OUtput Alts right now as well.   Powermaster is a good company for alts as well, hope this all helps

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2009 0-1000 Trunk WR 154.0DB 2009 1001+ Trunk WR
2007 USACI World Champion
2007 World Record
2006 USACI Finals 2nd Place

After reading what your current draw has the potentional of being, definetly get a larger alterantor and upgrade your wiring as sugghested. I have installed 3 of the powermaster alts within the last 2 monthsm so far I am impressed with price and qulaity. I have not had any experience with iraggi alts, but I have heard many good things from fellow installers/enthusiasts. sorry for the typos...

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I suggest this:  those amplifiers have fuse ratings that are far above the serviceablity of the amps.  With a 160 amp alternator, your car has approx. 125 amps available for the sound system (at desert cruising speed, of course ;).  Now, you look at how you have this system set up...are the amps being loaded at lowest ohm load?  If they're capable of 1 ohm, for instance, and you have them loaded at 2 ohms, the fuse rating should be cut approx. in half.  So instead of the generous 90 amps protection one amp has, it should need only 45 amps of fusing.

Same with the four channel amp...if you have 4 ohm loads attached to it instead of the 2 ohm limit, the fuse rating should be cut in half.

An alternator upgrade can come after the system is installed and set up.  You should see if that is a necessary thing to do when that time comes, and in the meantime get your system up and running.  What's the worst thing that can happen? 

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Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.

noakes75 wrote:

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alright, sorry it took me so long to get back. but as i already said, im in Iraq and the internet sometimes goes down for days here.

alright, you said that i need to take all the fuses from my amps and add them, then put it against the alternater to see how it adds up. i understand that part. but with the amps im useing (MA Audio products), i dont know if they over protecting they're product or what, but it has 3 30s in each one. I'm useing two. And for the four channel it's useing 2 20s. so you can see where this is going in a hurry. 3X30X2= 180.   2X20 =40.  plus the power the engine needs to run. 35+15. add them all up and I'm getting 270. My alternater is rated for 160 amps. unless I'm doing this all wrong i have a differance of 110 amps. So, now my question is again. how would i offset this to make there to be less drain on my electrical system in the car, and keep the amps to their maximum effeciatncy.

also, would caps be more useful then the Kinetik power cell? like aznboi suggested? i've built systems before (not the im a pro or anything. so im not saying that) but ive never had to deal with this before and sorta new to the caps and extra power cells so be easy on me.

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Wow that is a LOT of draw >.< Getting betteries on there will be more of a bandaid. A kenetic 1400 for example combined with your 160 alt will give you about 8 seconds of power before deep cycle kicks in and hurts the battery. Dual alternator or 300 amp alternator is the way to go. In this case, caps will hurt your system more than help it. If you can get to 250 amps on the alternator, you can get by with a 2.5 Farad cap.

Good Luck!

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Never send your ducks to eagle school.
The difference between ordinary and extraordinary is that little extra.
The 3Ls of life: Learn from the Past, Live for the Present, Look to the Future.

alright, first of all, i would like to thank you all for your help. although im not 100% done with this problem yet. you've all been a big help. i sure didnt expect this kind of help. thank you
moving on. alright, i emailed the people you recommended for me to get the alternators from. but now moving on. after i get the 300amp alternator. what am i goin to do for my batteries? i read on a few of the alt. websites that you have to have the required battery power inorder for the alternater to do it's job (makes sense) so, what has to be done about that?
also, as stevdart suggested about the power draw from my amps with the ohms and everything. the two im useing for my subs are rated at 1 ohm. which they will be run at. and the 4 channel is rated at 2. but i will be running it at 4. so if i break it down right. ill be useing 20 less then previously stated. thats still a hell of alot of drawl.
and i could wait on the alternater upgrade, your right. but seeing as i have no where to spend my money currently (once again due to deployment) i want to sink it into my truck. but thanks for the ideas.
oh, and extremj. dont worry about the typos. as you all can see my spelling sucks, but atleast i can still get my point across :)

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front leaning rest postion MOVE

OH and im planning on doing the big 3 too thanks

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front leaning rest postion MOVE