Printer Friendly Forum Posts - chevy cobalt neutral safety

Hi everyone,

I've done a very thorough search here as well as tried looking for answers on my local car forum.

I am recently installed a Viper 5900 alarm / remote start system in my 06' Chevy Cobalt SS and everything works well. The only issue I have is the potential for disaster if I accidently leave my car in gear prior to a remote start. Instead of installing a neutral safety switch, I would prefer to install a relay in line with the remote start output from the alarm and only have it complete the circuit if the car is left in neutral. To make this possible, I believe that I will need to tap a wire that shows +12V when the car is in neutral and 0V when any gear is engaged. An alternative method would be the opposite; a ground signal shown when the car is in neutral and a +12V when any gear is engaged. I would simply tap this wire and run it to the neutral safety wire, opposed to using a relay in pine with the remote starter output.

I would like to know if anyone has experience with something of this nature on this vehicle and/or has any ideas that may work to achieve my goal. I even went as far as looking into installing reed sensors (magnetic sensors used with alarm systems in homes - commonly found on windows and doors). I was going to
attempt to rig these up on my shifter cables, but the length of travel path is not far enough to break the signal from being in line with one another. I appreciate any help guys.

Josh

Sorry for the minor typos. I'm submitting these posts from my phone. You know how that goes. Also, I was referring to reed switches, not sensors.

Here is my total vehicle info just in case anything additional info is needed for ideas here.
2006 Chevrolet Cobalt SS Supercharged - 5 speed manual

Some members of my car forum don't believe that these such wires I am looking for exist, but no one is certain. I have my multimeter handy if anyone has an idea. I've been pronging around here and there with some potentially logical wires with no luck as of yet.

Thanks in advance

does your vehicle let you start when in gear? if yes, you do not have NSS.

I do not do these as a living but the only one I came across w/ NSS are subarus.

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Houston,TX
"The two most common elements in the universe are H+ and stupidity" (Ellison).

Nissans have them, too. I doubt your Cobalt has one - DEI makes an aftermarket module for this application.

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Kevin Pierson

With the starting in gear, yes, I am able to fire it up in any gear. As for this module you mentioned, would this suit my needs or are you referring to the XK06 GM Bypass Module that ties into the ignition?

I'm not referring ot the XK06 - DEI makes a special module to add a NSS. I don't know the part number off the top of my head, but I'm sure someone here does.

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Kevin Pierson

689M? from DEI and the original idea some years ago was either Hall effect switches or simply a pair of micro-switches fixed to go to ground when the shifter is in neutral.

Yeah, the 689M appears to be the module that prevents your car from starting while
in gear. As long as this unit is compatible with all vehicles, including mine of course, I will definitely purchase this.

Ok, upon further review of the 689m, I'm not liking it. I like the fact that it is fool proof to remote start your car in gear, but the shutdown sequence is not something I would get into the habit of doing. Have a look for yourself:
1) All doors must be closed
2) Key start the engine
3) Fully apply the parking brake
4) Put the transmission in neutral and release the clutch pedal
5) Engage remote start. The parking lights will flash or illuminate depending on the model of remote start
6) Remove key from ignition cylinder
7) Exit vehicle without pressing the brake pedal
8) Shut all doors to vehicle. The engine will shut off automatically

Here's my idea. I'd like to use a neutral safety switch in the same concept that the included toggle switch works, with some minor differences. My big fear is that I may accidently leave the car in gear one day and also forgot to toggle the switch back. This could mean disaster. Are there are switches out there, like momentary swtiches, that can be used as a neutral safety switch, but disengage once I shut down the vehicle? Kind of like an auto reset upon vehicle shutdown where I would have to engage it again before exiting the vehicle in order for the neutral safety wire to be grounded and complete the remote start circuit.

Let me know your thoughts.

I was thinking about what you posted, some thoughts....it can't be done because the essence is for the unit to be aware of gear shift position, i.e. in neutral. Yes there are latching relays, i.e. no current draw which could make and break your R/S grounded safety wire, but somehow it has to know gearshift position.

If you actully think about how you drive your car, the 689m is only adding ONE step:

5) Engage remote start. The parking lights will flash or illuminate depending on the model of remote start

Everything else would occur everytime you drive the car anyway.

Honestly, to me, this one step does sounds like a hassle, but for the safetly it adds it is worth it.

The toggle switch idea is guarenteed to get something damaged or someone hurt or killed.

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Kevin Pierson

KPierson wrote:

If you actully think about how you drive your car, the 689m is only adding ONE step:

5) Engage remote start. The parking lights will flash or illuminate depending on the model of remote start

Everything else would occur everytime you drive the car anyway.

Honestly, to me, this one step does sounds like a hassle, but for the safetly it adds it is worth it.

The toggle switch idea is guarenteed to get something damaged or someone hurt or killed.

really? Ok. The way I read it sounded like I would have to turn off the car and go through this entire sequence prior to getting out. That's not too bad at all then. The fact that the car will run for a minute or so, like a turbo timer, after I exit is a bit bothersome, but I would just be getting greedy at that point. I agree with you that any other method is try is going to be risky. Maybe I'll give this module a try.

Thanks for the feedback guys.

Alright, I've got another question that I'll ask in here so I don't have to start a new thread.

With the remote start operation, will it engage the start sequence 3 times total, even with a successful start on the first try? The reason I ask is because I hear it go through the sequence of clicking even though the car is already on. I am able to hear this when sitting in the drivers seat. Is this a sign that I have a bad tachometer wire that is not telling the system that the vehicle is running? I have the jumper for the viper alarm set to the 2nd setting for the tachometer. The one that allows is to read a lower voltage wire showing voltage when the car is running. I can't recall the name at this time.

No, if the car is started the first time it won't go through and try to start the car again.

Does the car actually remote start and run right now?

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Kevin Pierson

Yes, the car remote starts first time, every time. I believe it is attempting to start, while already running, two more times.

Update: I just remote started the vehicle from a distance and monitored it's behavior as I approached. The car shuts off within about 15-20 seconds after remote start. I'm still leaning toward my issue being a bad tachometer reading to the alarm system. I tied the wire into one of my fuel injector harness wires that showed about .150 volts when the car is running and 0 when it's shut off. This is what the spec sheet for cobalt installation said to use. Any ideas here?

What you've described is symptomatic of tach programming not being learned, the injector port is where I would go, provided the colur wire you used is a "non-common" wire with respect to the others, i.e. one wire (12v+ at ignition) will be common colour at all the injectors, don't use this. Try reprogramming for tach.

howie ll wrote:

What you've described is symptomatic of tach programming not being learned, the injector port is where I would go, provided the colur wire you used is a "non-common" wire with respect to the others, i.e. one wire (12v+ at ignition) will be common colour at all the injectors, don't use this. Try reprogramming for tach.

LOL. You just beat me to the punch. I just sat down and said to myself, "You know what, I remember seeing in the manual that the system needs to learn the tach signal." Sure as doodie, I programmed the tach signal and instant success with the remote start not cutting off. I log into the forum next and see this post. lol

Thanks for the assistance.

On a side note, I wired up a pretty nifty switch in my center console area that bypasses the clutch. I removed the jumper off the clutch switch harness, that I was using to bypass the clutch temporarily, and tapped into both wires that run to this momentary clutch switch. I then ran these wires to a lighted toggle switch located in a discrete, factory looking location. Now, all I have to do is toggle the switch in the up position, place the car in neutral, and go on with the rest of my day. This will leave the car in a remote start ready stage. I used a lighted switch so I don't accidentally leave it in the on position. I figure I will see the light and cut it off; only turning it on when I plan on remote starting. Have a look at some of the pics and vid below. Feel free to comment.

posted_image

Well, I guess that last video I uploaded is having some issues. Let's use a more reliable source for upload:

https://www..com/watch?v=-2RRvHX1lGY

Well at least I know what the Cobalt is now, I recognise those heater/AC controls, we call it a Vauxhall Astra!

howie ll wrote:

Well at least I know what the Cobalt is now, I recognise those heater/AC controls, we call it a Vauxhall Astra!

Yep. I am familiar with that. I've got a buddy of mine that always tells me where half the American car models come from. ex: GTO - Holden Monaro.

Oh, btw, as the remote start and everything along with it works now, I noticed a clicking sound about every 3 seconds or so until I placed the key in the ignition and tapped the brake. I imagine this is normal, but I wanted to confirm this. Nothing else happens other than a 'click, click' every couple of seconds inside the car around the area of the viper system.

Thanks in advance.

audiobreeze wrote:

Well, I guess that last video I uploaded is having some issues. Let's use a more reliable source for upload:

https://www..com/watch?v=-2RRvHX1lGY

I also just noticed that I evidently can't post directly links on this forum.

Here is the video of the operation of the switch, in case anyone is dying to see it. lol
https://tinyurl.com/nqnjxm

audiobreeze wrote:

Oh, btw, as the remote start and everything along with it works now, I noticed a clicking sound about every 3 seconds or so until I placed the key in the ignition and tapped the brake. I imagine this is normal, but I wanted to confirm this. Nothing else happens other than a 'click, click' every couple of seconds inside the car around the area of the viper system.

Thanks in advance.

Any input with this one?

Sounds like the parking light flash relay to me.

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Kevin Pierson

KPierson wrote:

Sounds like the parking light flash relay to me.

That would make sense. I noticed for the first time today that the parking lights flash (every couple of seconds) after I remote start. This never happened with my older remote start alarm system on my 97' ranger which made me curious. Everything appears to make sense now.

It's so much fun getting back into all this stuff. I'm an electronic guru and it feels great to get back into the swing of things. Thanks for all the help. Next project will be powering the momentary button that circulates the AC upon remote start.

does your G35 have it? what other nissans have it?

KPierson wrote:

Nissans have them, too. I doubt your Cobalt has one - DEI makes an aftermarket module for this application.

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Houston,TX
"The two most common elements in the universe are H+ and stupidity" (Ellison).

Yes, my G35 has one, as well as the 350Z and the 300Z. Past that I don't know for sure what all cars have them. I know on the G and Z it is used to prevent "no load" revving. I would guess that most newer Nissans (and at least most of the higher end older cars) have them.

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Kevin Pierson