concept 600 w/roll, intellistart probs?

hi all, i have a 93 vauxhall nova gsi (uk model) i have recently re installed my alarm a concept 600 after a couple of years of it being in the loft as the car was being restored, with the help of manuals of the site the alarm went back in no problems, all the functions are working as they where before, but i have now added electric windows, and this is where my problem lies.... the electric windows are fed from an ignition live, and when the ignition is on, the switches give a permanent 12v supply to both 'up' and 'down' to stall the motor, then when the switch is pressed it supplies an earth to send it the window up and down... ive tried all the configurations in the clifford window manual and none work, with relays or without? i am getting a 12v supply from the clifford when i activate the alarm for roll up... i hope im missing something obvious as im stumped! if any more info is needed please ask me...

next problem... intellistart 4 wont work, all conections have been checked numerous times, all ok, i have the cliffnet pro lead and software, the pulse starter works, and the turn on ignition function turns the ignition on!! only thing i have noticed is when i go into monitor mode, when i press * to activate the intellistart, i get flash code 1, i believe that is poor tach signal, but i programmed the tach and got 2 chirps and flashes to confirm... any help would be greatly appriciated, its driving me mad!!! thanks in advance, sean, uk

Most window units will send twelve volts to the motor as ground at rest systems are more common, so you may need relays to invert the signal or maybe there is a comfort close feature on that car. Maybe you could try a tach inductor from dei. My good friend howard will chime in to confirm my suggestions!

thanks for reply, the car has no comfort close feature, its just a 'hold for up' 'hold for down' system. did try the relays as per the clifford manual, which i believe shows a 'rest at 12v' diagram, but to no avail....

also, what is the tach inductor you suggest?

its strange that im getting the flash code one, as according to cliffnet, i am getting a feedback from the coil/tach, you can see the numbers changing..

God I used to have fun with these!!!  Rewire the switches so that motor wires sit on ground (earth) at rest, otherwise you willl need to access an old Clifford smart windows document.  Effectively a relay changes that ignition feed to a ground when ignition isn't on.  Ignition feed to 86. and 87, window feed from 30 to switches, ground to 85 and 87a.

Ref the RS throw away the Wiz, it takes ages to master it and it's ful of glitches. It will also dump your tach settings.  If that car has a rev counter, go to the instrument panel feed or the coil, it's a green wire that you're looking for.  I only EVER use the Wiz to change Siren or Valet code settings or crank time.  It will  create havoc with all your other settings.  Was playing with my car the other week (remember I've been using this product for over 10 years- one company I did contract work for refused to honour any warantees if the customer used Wiz), lost both my remotes, I had to re-programme every button manually on each.

In other words, programme the tach manually. Except if set in auto mode, which I don't advise on a manual car except for testing purposes, it should still start and run for 15 secs.

hi all, thanks for your detailed replies. the car is a manual, sorry scirocco, how do i do a manual trans start, because you are right, it is flashing once and not starting (also giving flash code 1)

howie thanks for advice with switches, could i not just literally swap the live and earth feeds to the switches, and change the up down wires round to suit? thanks all again :)

I normally do exactly what you just said with the window switches.  It avoids having to use a relay.  I simply depin the switches and change the wires around.  You need to swap the motor wires 180 degreees too so pressing the switch up makes the window go up.   The relay should work just fine too if you already have it in and hooked up as howie described.  Make sure you program them too if you didn't already.  That could be causing a premature shutdown on rollup.  Manual trans safestart is a button combination that must be pressed while the car is running on the key.  after you hit it parking lights come on and remove the key the car will stay running.  Exit close the door and arm.  Car shuts off.  You are now ready to remote start with star button unless you open a door, alarm triggers, or you disarm.  this will cancel remote start.  Not sure about uk models but here in the US manual tran safestart was only programmed on master remote out of the box, channel 11 i think.  You need to program it on companion remotes and is only available through wizard, not on programming grid. 

thanks again for reply scirocco, the windows are now sorted, swapped live and earth round, and also swapped motor connections to suit, only problem was that i lost the illumination on the switches, which i ripped apart and swapped the led round, so now is a ok!

going back to the intellistart, i have not got the master remote, just got lost over the years and cant seem to find it! (if any one has a master fob for sale along with a tilt and motion sensor to suit a concept 600, and a 3 pin comms link cable, let me know!)  back on subject, i have kind of got the intellistart working, but its with the black green earthed, i am not going to leave it like this as i want to do it safely, i just wanted to prove it worked... so im still stuck really untill i get a master remote? by the way, i have the hand brake cable connected to the earth side of the hand brake when pulled up, is this correct? thanks, sean

Well done with the switches Sean, I was waiting to see how you would handle the ilumination "issue". N.B. For you future refs, only Mercedes, some Lancias AND early (pre 99) Polo used that form of switch wiring.

Ref Scirocco, you're right, you can only programme manual safety start set-up on the remote via the Wiz, the programming grid doesn't do it. I just checked my old dealer manual.

Sean, handbrakes all go to ground (earth) when pulled up, that's correct and the manual safety start wire (blue/green) from the I/Start goes there. Disconnect the GREEN/ black from ground, take ALL your Intellistart red and black wires to the battery.

Engine running, handbrake up, side button twice, button three, (9.00 o'clock)  should hear three faint clicks,remove key, engine still running, fire up alarm, engine should shut down.

Yes I've got genuine early G4 remotes but the laterG4/early G5 style "Radar"  remotes, blue LED and Clifford logo as shift changer will work even better, also the later blue LED is interchangeable.

I've got files on the Con 600(not on the DEI trade website any more) and I/Start if you pm me with your email address.