5901 manual remote start

I just finished my installation of the viper 5901 alarm/remote starter.  It is installed into a manual 1987 Toyota MR2.  The alarm portion works just fine and does everything I want it to.  After that was all tested I tried to set up the remote start and ran into some issues.

First off I took the tachometer input from the IG pin of the test connector (this is where the service manual from toyota recommends getting a tach signal).  I started the car, press and held the valet button within five seconds and got the correct chirps/flashes of the led to confirm that the tach signal is learnt.  I then followed the instructions for remote start in a manual.  Press the brake and set the hand brake.  Release the brake.  Press any button on the remote (I chose unlock).  The car flashed the parking lights and the remote said "remote start on".  I removed the key from the ignition and the car stayed running as it was supposed to.  A second later the starter began to crank.  I pressed the brake and the car shut down.  I tried again and this time I didnt even get the key out of the ignition before it started to crank.  The remote once again said remote start on and then displayed the countdown timer for the remote start.

From what I can tell the remote start is acttivating instead of setting up to activate.  Has anyone experienced this before?  This is the first remote start I have installed.  I was very carefull in making sure I had the correcte wiring but I am human so I could have made a mistake.  Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks in advance.

Cheers,
Berg

check to see if you have one of the ignition wires on the start wire.

Will do!  I'm going to recheck each and every wire on the remote start harness.  I will be leaving town for a few days and wont be able to get to it for a while, but I will keep you updated.  Thanks for the reply.  I appreciate any help I can get!

Cheers,
Berg

I got the info straight out of the owners guide that came in the alarm box.

I haven't checked but I'm thinking that it is unlikely that I have connected an ignition wire to the starter.  The only reason I say this is because the wire to the starter relay was severed during installation.  One wire from the alarm is connected to the key side and another to the starter side.  When the alarm is armed it has no continuity between the two (starter kill).  I have confirmed that the car will not start while armed.  However, when the alarm is disarmed the car starts fine.  If I had an ignition wire connected in place of the starter wire I would likely not have any control over the starter at all (when starting with the key).  I still will check it out though.

As mentioned before the remote comes up with "remote start armed" and the run time is then displayed.  I was under the impression that it gave a different message when setting up for remote start, like "remote start ready" or something.  Joebubba can you confirm?

I also have the turbo timer/remote start button connected.   I haven't had a chance to get to the wiring again but I did try to set up the remote start using the button (same procedure but press the button in the car instead of the remote).  This time nothing happened initially, then the alarm chirped and the parking lights flashed seven times indicating a problem with remote start manual mode.  The remote also gave me the error tone and displayed "remote start error".

This is driving me nuts!  One thing I might try is returning the alarm to factory settings.  I have a bitwriter so I can do the "zap" to do this.  If anybody has any words of wisdom or advice or can even point out a simple (or complicated) mistake I may of made I would be more than happy to hear it.  Thanks.

Cheers,
Berg

When I set the alarm up with the bitwriter I set it to "no turbo timer".  And activating the turbo timer would just hold twelve volts on the ignition and accessory wires wouldn't it (unless of course I have made an error in wiring - still possible)?

When next I have a chance I will check over all my wiring in the remote start harness.  I will check everything suggested here.  I will also set the alarm back to defaults with the zap.  I will also reconnect the starter wire as it was pre-install and connect the starter wire from the alarm to a twelve volt light.  That way I can fiddle with it without fear of it cranking the starter while the car is running.

I will keep you guys posted and please keep the ideas comming.

Cheers,
Berg

Ok, things have gone from bad to worse.  The story so far:

I first took apart the car again to gain access to the alarm.  I connected the bitwriter and performed the "ZAP".  I then relinked the remote and taught the alarm the tach signal again.  I then followed the proceedure of brake, handbrake, release brake, press button, remove key, exit, close door, and arm.  SUCCESS!! The car shut down, the doors locked and the shift lever was displayed on the remote.  I then held my breath and pressed remote start.  The car started fine!

Next thing I wanted to do was to try and put it into pit stop mode because I knew I would be using that.  It failed.  I then tried to do the remote start setup again and it failed.  I tried a few more times and finally I was met with success again.  This time however, the car did not start.  When I pressed the button the alarm went off.  The remote gave me a "trunk open" indication.  I disarmed the alarm.  The trunk was not open, but I have the backup battery alarm trigger wired into the trunk instant trigger, diode isolated of course.

The battery had died.  Not a big problem, I figured it was because I had been starting the car and then turning it off fairly quickly so the battery didnt have a chance to charge.  I put a jump start box on the battery and started the car manually.  The battery is located in the trunk so I got out of the car and went and closed the trunk.  The plan was to let the battery charge up again by letting the car run before trying to do anything else.

The next thing I knew the starter was grinding again.  The alarm had activated it.  Immediately I jumped in and stomped on the brakes... no change.  So now I had to pull the trunk release, run to the fron of the trunk, pull the hoodpins out, take the cover off the top of the battery, find a wrench and disconnect the negative battery terminal.  All the while the poor starter is chewing itself apart.  Finally I got it off and the car shut down.

I decided to try and reconnect the battery a few minutes later.  It didnt have enough power to start the car, but it did try.  Now the alarm comes with a sticker that warns that the remote start may activate when the battery is reconnected, but I thought that was more of just a precaution than anything else.

I pulled the fuse that powers the starter relay and reconnected the battery and put on a charger.  For some reason the parking lights and the dome light were both held on, no matter what the state the car or the alarm was in.  I made what I now realize was a mistake and "ZAPPED" the alarm again thinking that something had gone wrong.  I then decided to try and start the car with the key again.  I turned the key one click (accessory position) and the car powered up and the starter cranked the engine.  I turned the key back to off and pulled it out and the car remained running.  I pulled the other two fuses in the remote start harness (that power the ignition and ignition 2) and the car shut down.

This is where I am now.  The alarm holds the parking lights and the dome light on all the time.  If I turn the key to the Accessory postition the starter cranks until I turn the key back to the Off positon.  I cannot move the key to the ignition on position to re-pair it with the remote because the starter will be cranking and the engine will start without shutting down the starter.

Going over the wiring diagram the accessory and the starter both get their power from the same 12 volt source (cant remember off the top of my head, but I think that it is the red with black stripe wire).  So new as I can figure something had gone wrong in the alarm/starter itself and power is somehow getting from the accessory output to the starter output (orange and violet wires if memory serves).  Also all of the outputs seem to be stuck in an on state (parking lights and dome light).

If I unplug the remote start harness from the alarm then everything behaves except starting because the starter wire was cut for the alarm install (starter kill).  So I am confident that my wiring is correct and that there is something wrong in the alarm.

Can I manually reset the alarm? 
Does it sound like I need a new one?
Can anyone help me?

I'd hate to have to purchase another one (I don't know if I can get this one exchanged if it is screwed because I did the install myself).  Thanks in advance!

Cheers,
Berg

Oh, I should also point out that I have put the remote start switch in the off position and took the hand brake off and opened the hood.  None of these safety features preven the alarm from trying to start the car.

Cheers,
Berg

Yeah.  Thanks.  Done that already. 

Here's another interesting fact.  Using a multimeter I checked the pins on the remote start connections on the unit itself.  There is a dead short between the auxiliary output and the wire to the starter relay.  You know, like in the unit itself.  As in it has nothing to do with my wiring.  There are other pins that have shorts between them as well, but I left my notes in the garage.

I may be an amateur when it comes to the remote start install, but I am no amateur when it comes electronics or wiring.  I studied for two years to become a cetified electronics technician and have worked in the field for the past six years.

Thank you so much for offending me!  That really helps with my frustration!  Is this how you treat all who are less experienced than you?  Instead of helping or encouraging you insult them?  That's a pretty poor attitude sir.

Cheers,
Berg

Hey, no worries.  I know how you feel (I'm having a bad time with this vehicle).  And in your defense I did fail to mention that I rechecked every single connection.  Thanks.

I will try disconnecting all the plugs and testing for shorts and opens as you say after work tonight.

I have the starter connections done as you say.  As I'm sure you know the BLACK/ white wire runs from the ignition switch to the clutch switch, then to the starter relay.  I cut the wire after the clutch switch such that remote start will not require the starter be depressed to crank, but starting with the key does.  Here's a quick and poorly done scribble of how that is wired in:

https://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s117/Berg9987/Starter.jpg

(Point of interest - that cruise control connection isn't there on my car.  Instead there is a separate switch at the top of the pedal's travel.  My car is an 87 and this diagram is for an 88.)

I believe that the alarm/remote starter was working.  I did have the initial trouble, but that was something that had gone wrong when I did the set up with the bitwriter.  Whether it was a setting I did in error or something else that went wrong I cant tell you because I don't know.  After "zapping" the remote start worked fine the one time.  I tried again and that is when the alrm allerted me that the trunk was open, but as I said the backup battery unit is wired into the same trigger.  After that it held the dome light on so it always thought the door was open and would not set itself up for remote start or pitstop mode (when I pressed the lock/arm button it just turned off the car and gave me a remote start error).  I tried zapping again and the only change was that I lost the remote pairing.

I fear that trying to remotely start the car with a weak battery may have caused some damage.  I jump started the car and about a minute later the remote start kept the starter cranking at all times.  This is why I was wondering if there was a way to manually force a reset of the brain.  But now I'm just repeating things I've already said.

One thing I did do after I posted last night was manually put 12 volts on the pink wire (Ignition 1) and managed to re-pair the remote with the alarm.  Unfortunately it hasn't really done me much good.

Thank you for the help.

Cheers,
Berg

Ok, I have followed your suggestion.  I checked every pin on the remote start plug for continuity.  There were only two readings, short or open.

With nothing plugged into the brain:
There were two shorts.  One between pins 4 and 5 (starter input and output) and one between pins 7 and 8 (Ignition 2/flex relay output and flex relay input 87a).  The short between pins 7 and 8 is expected as pin 7 is 30 on the flex relay and pin 8 is pin 87a.  I am not using pin 8 and it is not connected in the car to anything and has been removed from the harness all together.  However as I don't have a known good unit to compare against I cant say if pins 4 and 5 should be shorted.  I would think no for two reasons.  One, this is the starter kill, so it doesnt seem logical to me that simply removing power from the alarm would defeat the starter kill.  And two, assuming this uses a standard style relay (and I could be completely wrong on that), having the relay active when the alarm is armed would put a larger drain on the battery, albeit not much but a steady 100mA over several days, especially in colder climates isn't a good thing.

I then plugged the main harness back in and repeated the test (power to the alarm):
Pin 1 was shorted to pin 6 (Ignition 1 output to ignition 1 input - Ignition 1 would be on at all times)
Pin 2 was shorted to pin 7 (Ignition 2 input to ignition 2 - Ignition 2 would be on at all times)
Pin 3, 4, 5, and 9 were all shorted together (Accessory output, starter in and out, and power input for accessory - accessory and starter would always be on)

After this test I was fairly sure that something has gone wrong in the brain.  I dont think it was any of my wiring, it was all done and checked before anything was plugged into the brain.  Also the remote start had been acting funny since day one (see first post in this thread).  That was all tested before I reassembled the car so I don't think any pinched wires can be blamed.  So I could be in that 0.01% or I may have made a mistake like shorting a wire when plugging things in or something (though my pride keeps saying its the 0.01% lol).

I decided that as I need my car to get around the best course of action is to remove the alarm and reassemble.  To test the pins I had unbolted the alarm from the car and just had the one harness plugged in.  So I grabbed the alarm and unplugged the harness.  In doing so I noticed that the underside of the alarm was warm.  Not hot, but a definately a little warmer than the temperature in the garage.  Of course this is to be expected, electronics that are shorted tend to increase in temperature.

I have left all the wiring in the car.  I put a jumper between pins 4 and 5 on the remote start harness to re-enable my starter.  I will get a replacement, recheck the connections (again!) and connect the new brain.  I have contacted the seller about this but doubt that they can do anything (I am not an authorized dei installer, nor can I prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the unit came to me faulty).  I'm so confident in this that I have already ordered and paid for another one.  If the original seller can repace the brain I have a second car which I am building that I can do an intall in, so I don't see it as being a wasted purchase.

I will post again when I have the new brain to let you know what hapens.

If anyone has heard of this before and can tell me for sure that I have made an error somewhere please let me know before I fry another unit.

I need a beer.

Thanks for all the help.

Cheers,
Berg

Good to know.  That makes more sense than my assumption.  So 85 is connected to the grounded when armed output and this is why when the anti-grind feature is activated the grounded when armed remains grounded until the driver takes over right?  (The second half of that sentence was lifted straight from the manual).  This thing is a very well thought out little unit, and you obviously know pretty much everything there is to know about it.  I appreciate you sharing your knowledge with me.

I'm still waiting for the new alarm to clear customs.  I'm expecting it to be here sometime next week.  Then its a final check on the wiring (again), and I'll try again.  I'll post up the results here.

On a positive note, you imply that the remotes aren't the most reliable, and I'll have four just in case!

Cheers,
Berg

My new alarm has arrived.  I am hoping to find some time this weekend to put it in. I will be going through all the connections again.  I'll let you know what happens.

Cheers,
Berg

anyone knows how to set up the clock on the viper 5901? authorized dealer installed the system in my car  yesterday (1/13/2010) take it home but the clock time is wrong and I can't set up.

- step by step settings please -

your help is deeply appreciated

Okay, thats a little different than the thread topic, but here goes.

Clock time is set up on the remote as such (taken from pagea 23 to 27 of my user's manual):

Access menu items
1.  Press and hold the f button for 8 seconds, the remote will beep once, MAIN MENU is displayed.  (If Car 2 is on, ignore the Car Select text and beep after 3 seconds).
2.  Release the f button to display the Main Menu item list, SETUP REMOTE is displayed.
3. The Main Menu has been accessed and configuring can begin.  Use the following process to view the Main Menu features, options and settings in the text field.  The following actions are commonly used throughout the configuration opteration.
- Press the AUX or REMOTE START buttons to change the feature or option that is displayed in the text field.
- Press the f button to choose the feature in the text field and view its options.  Press it when the desired feature or option is in the text field to set it as the new setting.

So step by step just for the clock (I did this right now with the remote in my hand):
1.  Press and hold the f button for about eight seconds until the remote beeps, the screen will say "MAIN" then "SETUP" then alternate the words "REMOTE" and "SETUP".
2.  Release the f button.
3.  Press and release the f button.  The screen will now alternate the words "KEYPAD" and "LOCK".
4.  Press and release the AUX button three time.  The screen will cycle through "EXIT", "REVIEW", and then "CLOCK SET".
5.  Press and release the f button.  The display will now say "HOUR".
6.  Press and release the f button.  The time will now be displayed and the hour number will be flashing.  Use the AUX button to increase the value for the hour and the REMOTE START button to decrease it.  If you are using the twelve hour clock increasing or decreasing the hour past 12 will change the AM/PM indicator.
7.  Set the hour to the current time.
8.  Press and release the f button.  The remote will return to the previous screen and display "HOUR".
9.  Press and release the AUX button once.  The display should now say "MIN".
10.  Press and release the f button.  The time will once again be displayed, but this time the minutes will be flashing.
11.  Pres the AUX or REMOTE START button to set the minutes just as you did to set the hours.
12.  Once the minutes are set, press and release the f button.  The screen wil once again display "MIN".
13.  Press the UNLOCK button to exit setup.

Cheers,
Berg

Alright, update time.

I received the new alarm last week and today I spent some time with the car trying to figure things out.  I checked every single wire for connection.  I then checked all of the wires that control systems in the car (dome light, rear defog, etc.).  The ones activated by a ground I tested using my multimeter and tieing it to ground.  This is where I found the mistake I had made.  I am embarrassed about it because I know better and I have been shaking my head since I figured it out.  Remember back in my first post I mentioned that it did work once, then went funny.  Well the reason it went funny was because the alarm had gone off (triggered by the backup battery circuit when the voltage dropped).  The horn honk output was set to honk the horn when the alarm was triggered.  Well the horn honk output of the alarm can only handle 200mA.  I failed to check what it actually drew the first time.  I checked it today and it required 4A!  I can't believe I didn't check that the first time.  I'm just glad I didn't plug the new one in without checking it.  Everything else checked out fine.  So I removed the horn honk wire and connected the alarm.  I think that I may have damaged the backup battery circuitry as well.  When the remote start tried to engage the backup battery circuit didn't like the drop in the battery voltage and set off the alarm.  So the engine cranked for a split second then stopped and the alarm went off.  Thinking that it may have been that the battery might be low I connected a jump starter and tried again.  Same problem.  I disconnected the trigger wire from the backup unit and it started fine.  I'm alright with how this is.  The battery is in the front trunk so the alarm would be going off anyway if someone tried to cut power, and the battery part of the backup still works.  If I do decide that I need this voltage sensing trigger I should have enough spare parts at work to build my own circuit.

Now it is working, it's not perfect but its close.  I still have to do some setup like sensor sensitivity.  I do have two more issues.

1.  When setting up the alarm to remote start (brake, handbrake, press button, remove key, get out, lock the door), the remote start sometimes tries to start the car while its still running.  I can tell whether or not it will work by the number of times the parking lights flash.  If they flash five times then stay on, I'm good.  If the flash a different number of times I have to press the brake before it tries to engage the starter and try again.  So long as I'm paying attention it seems fine.  It doesn't seem to matter whether I activate the ready state by alarm or by the momentary button I mounted in the car.  Also if I remote start the car and then shut it off by remote it sometimes turns off and then starts up again, without disengaging the starter.  Pressing disarm while this is happening stops the car, but it also takes the remote start out of ready mode.  Any insight as to why it's doing this?  Would this be a tach sensing problem?  This isn't the end of the work because usually if I start the car then I am intending to get in and drive away.  I have yet to test what it would do when runtime runs out in either smart start or timer mode. 

2.  The dome light supervision.  When I press the button set up the remote the alarm turns the dome light on as though I have removed the key.  If I get out of the car and close the door and then lock it, It still thinks that the door is open and gives me the "remote start error".  Two ways to deal with this:  Take the key out of the ignition and then wait for the light to go out before getting out of the car (not pratical, but works for now), or use two diodes and a length of wire to move where the dome light output is connected to isolate it from the door triggers (I would have done this today, but I simply ran out of time).

Thank you for your help.  It will be much easier with the colder temperatures now.

Cheers,
Berg