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I am bringing in some EVOALL units because i am tired of all the BS involved with some Idatalink software. I recently started a new Nissan account and i'm tired of the long install on Altima/Maxima. The Fortin looks 10 times easier since you don't go to the BCM at all. Has anybody done one using Fortin?

Also, i notice the 80bit Toyota stuff doesn't show the security light connection like it does with Idatalink. I did a Rav4 yesterday and had to pull the radio just for this connection. Will the light be an issue with Fortin?

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Mike M2
Tech Manager
CS Dealer Services

i have used the fortin as my primary piece for all nissan/infiniti vehicles. easy install, and no bcm connections or ipdm relay under the hood(most models)
just a tip the 2011+ nissans have non removable bcms. they use some special rounded screw. its a tamper proof screw (one way) and you can buy the tool from amazon, or it's impossible to remove without it. will PM you the part number.

i dont think the security light is an issue, since each manufacture has their own software/coding for bypassing

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Ted
2nd Year Tier 1 Medical School
Still installing as a hobby...pays for groceries
Compustar Expert

I have done a Rogue, Armada, and a 09 Murano. I haven't done a Maxima/Altima yet. I must say, I really liked using the new software on the Fortin EVO. I used the EVO-CAN on all three of these Cars. The Firmware works perfect. The install time was cut down to an hour on a Rogue and Murano. Used to take me a little over 2 hrs. Armada was quick also, but I have never done one with an Idatalink before, so I can't compare it.
What I really like about the Murano was the takeover. This car has a keyslot and you carry an intellakey with you but once you get in the car, you can't just push the "push to start" button. You are supposed to slide the intellakey into a slot on the dash where it stays the whole time you are driving. Once its in the slot you can push the "push to start" and the car will start up. Well, with the new fortin firmware, while the Murano is running by the remote starter, you just hit unlock and get into the car and drive away. No need to put the key in the slot. I've used Idatalink on this car and when you open the door, it shuts down. Then you put the key in the slot and restart it. Kinda sucks, but that was the way it was before Fortin came out with their new firmware.
On the Murano install, you needed to access a wire on the push to start button. On the Murano, its mounted to the left of the radio. So I had to take that panel off to get to the wire. So that took a few minutes extra. But better then having to get to the BCM. Also, if you really want to stay away from the BCM, then you need to find new locations for ignition and 12 volt power. On the Murano, I found it pretty quickly at the fusebox with my meter. But before, the manuals laid out every wire for us, it was just that they all were at the BCM.
Also, from what I read. Since its starting the car using the "push to start" button. On the Altima, the AC will work with remote start.

Fortin electronics has the best bypass for any cars, I am a Master Installer with this bypass.

Oh, As for the RAV 4 with a 80bit key. My wife has one, and I am using a KEY-OVERRIDE-ALL. The car is 2 years old now, and it works perfect. No need for the security wire for any of the Toyota 80-Bit. I have always used Fortin for Toyota Regular key. So, when 80 Bit came out I continued to use them. One day, I'm looking at Idatalinks products and manuals, and see the security light interrupted. I remember thinking how hard some of those might be to get to. I was glad I was using Fortin for a Toyota bypass. The only thing is that Fortin doesn't have anything like the TL1, TL2, TL3, TL4 Firmware. Try to do a push to start toyota with out the TL firmware using a keyoverride-all and see how many wires you need to run... I still use Idatalink for Toyota Push to Start.

tedmond wrote:

just a tip the 2011+ nissans have non removable bcms. they use some special rounded screw. its a tamper proof screw (one way) and you can buy the tool from amazon, or it's impossible to remove without it. will PM you the part number.

I ran across this with the 2010 I did. the screws were the one way style screws... but I was able to remove them by carefully getting some pliers on the back side of the screw and CAREFULLY backing it out. it was a royal PITA but it worked. PUtting them back in was easy. You have to be very careful not to damage the threads or else you will be buying new bolts for it.

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Kenny
Owner / Technician
KKD Garage LLC
Albany, NY 12205

Tedmond, thanks for the link but i don't think i'll be needing it now. I have been unplugging the 3 needed plugs from the BCM and pulling them thru the cluster hole to wire up, but now i won't have to worry about it.

Next Q, apparently there's no software programming needed on the EVOALL?

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Mike M2
Tech Manager
CS Dealer Services

The EVO-ALL comes preloaded with firmware and they do updates ( not as often as iDatalink ). For the Nissan simplified installed,
the module must be Hardware Version 3 or 4 and flashed with Firmware Version 4.00 or higher. Fortin does have a special USB
FlashLink cable available for you to do the firmware flash updates,costs about $50.

Here is a link : https://ifar.ca/en/products/evo/evo-all/firmware.html

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Soldering is fun!

you should have no issues of getting a version 4 hardware. I've been stocking V4 modules for 2 months now, so i'm positive the v4 units are well distributed into the states by now.

Your distributor should have the flashlink loader/newest modules on hand.

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Ted
2nd Year Tier 1 Medical School
Still installing as a hobby...pays for groceries
Compustar Expert

Ok, yesrterday i had a Idatalink unit that just wouldn't work in a 2009 Quest so i installed an EVOALL. I realized it doesn't have the correct data plug to match Pursuit so i ended up hardwiring it. Will the EVOALL work DBI with AVOX products?

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Mike M2
Tech Manager
CS Dealer Services

unfortunately the fortin doesn't support DBI on DEI products. Not sure about avox units, as i have never tried.

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Ted
2nd Year Tier 1 Medical School
Still installing as a hobby...pays for groceries
Compustar Expert

Mike M2 wrote:

Ok, yesrterday i had a Idatalink unit that just wouldn't work in a 2009 Quest so i installed an EVOALL. I realized it doesn't have the correct data plug to match Pursuit so i ended up hardwiring it. Will the EVOALL work DBI with AVOX products?

There's dbi/d2d firmware available for it, but you can only reflash it with this firmware using the Fortin Flashlink Updater and their latest windows software.

not sure where you're getting your info from. i just grabbed a new v4 evo-can/all, and connected it to my flash-link with the new loader. it supports no DBI at all.

it supports idatalink rs232 communication, and fortin data-link only.

also, from their website:

Does data-link work with DEI's D2D or DBI?
Our protocol differs from the similar protocols offered by other manufacturers. We feel that our protocol is superior in reliability to these other protocols. Timing is essential when communicating in a vehicles high-speed bus so our data-link protocol has to communicate at much higher speed in order to offer exceptional reliability both with present and future vehicle networks. Because our data-link protocol is not the same as the RS-232 offered by some remote-starter brands, it is not compatible with either the D2D or DBI protocols.

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Ted
2nd Year Tier 1 Medical School
Still installing as a hobby...pays for groceries
Compustar Expert

tedmond wrote:

not sure where you're getting your info from. i just grabbed a new v4 evo-can/all, and connected it to my flash-link with the new loader. it supports no DBI at all.

it supports idatalink rs232 communication, and fortin data-link only.

Choose the "d2d" option (instead of the default "fortin") and the available d2d firmware will be selectable after the unit is connected. If you don't have this option you'll need to update your Flashlink software, or Flashlink Updater, or both.

The ads/idata protocol differs than the Fortin protocol. so the modules don't support idatalink's rs232 protocol.

tedmond wrote:

also, from their website:

Does data-link work with DEI's D2D or DBI?
Our protocol differs from the similar protocols offered by other manufacturers. We feel that our protocol is superior in reliability to these other protocols. Timing is essential when communicating in a vehicles high-speed bus so our data-link protocol has to communicate at much higher speed in order to offer exceptional reliability both with present and future vehicle networks. Because our data-link protocol is not the same as the RS-232 offered by some remote-starter brands, it is not compatible with either the D2D or DBI protocols.

This was written a while ago. But thanks for the reminder. We've been keeping quiet about d2d support for some time and I'll update the FAQ after a formal announcement is made.

I am laughing so hard at someone correcting you Darren on your own product.

FYI I used one of your EVO-CAN's today for the first time on a 2011 Altima.

I don't hate it. I will offer an official opinion at the place that matters once I get a few out in the field.

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Shaughn Murley
Install Manager, Dealer Services
Visions Electronics
Red Deer, Alberta

Now i need help. I istalled an EVOALL in a new Altima today and all worked well except one issue. I need it to turn off when the door is opened. I thought it would ba as easy as connecting the door trigger to the RS negative shunt, but apparently when you press unlock on the factory remote the EVOALL keeps the car running for entry. The Idatalink unit is simple in the fact it has a wire you ground to perform this action. I can't find anything in the instructions about this...

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Mike M2
Tech Manager
CS Dealer Services

hey mike,

i've done a few nissan pts, and they never needed to be shutdown, then restarted. just unlock, get in and drive.

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Ted
2nd Year Tier 1 Medical School
Still installing as a hobby...pays for groceries
Compustar Expert

tedmond wrote:

hey mike,

i've done a few nissan pts, and they never needed to be shutdown, then restarted. just unlock, get in and drive.

Correct. Unlocking the door is the very thing that initiates the takeover procedure. Test the system by reaching in through the driver's window, unlocking the door manually, then trying to drive away. If you do this, the car should shut down. Unlocking the doors with the factory remote or the aftermarket remote will open up a 45 second "window" for the customer to step on the brake and drive away.

Yea that's great and all, but not what the dealer wants. The factory RS shuts down and so must this. There's got to be a simple way to do this...

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Mike M2
Tech Manager
CS Dealer Services

Does it shut down if you ground the hood pin?

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Kenny
Owner / Technician
KKD Garage LLC
Albany, NY 12205

You mention that and it's one thing i didn't try but thought about after i left.

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Mike M2
Tech Manager
CS Dealer Services

just hook your hood pin wire to the driver door pin switch wire so that when opening door remote start thinks hood opened and it shuts down. but i dont know what dealer you are dealing with telling you the factory remote start shuts off when door opens so yours must, the factory doesnt offer remote start

jim hunter wrote:

just hook your hood pin wire to the driver door pin switch wire so that when opening door remote start thinks hood opened and it shuts down. but i dont know what dealer you are dealing with telling you the factory remote start shuts off when door opens so yours must, the factory doesnt offer remote start

Hood pin to driver door alone won't work. The 45 second window will already be initiated by the customer pressing unlock on the remote or pressing the button on the door handle. Try sending a pulse after shutdown or rearm pulse to the push button along to the hood pin thing.

I don't think Jim understands how the EVOALL works.

I shot an email to Fortin about it so i'm waiting for a response.

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Mike M2
Tech Manager
CS Dealer Services

no mike your right i used ads modules and have not had the opportunity to try an evo, so even if remote start is no longer sending a ground when running signal ( since the hood pin would shut entire remote start module down the evo would keep car powered? anyway why does it have to shut off when door opens, if fortin has take over as ads does just open the door get in and hit the brake and drive away, i dont understand why the car has to shut off upon door opening anyway

One simple answer here Jim, because that's what the customer wants. Ain't my car and i could care less, but in the dealer service business you gotta give what they want or they'll use one of the 5 other companies beating on the aftermarket door. NO loyalty here.

With an EVOALL you can completely remove the RS unit and the car will stay running once it sees unlock pressed and the key in the car.

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Mike M2
Tech Manager
CS Dealer Services

not sure if you knew, but there are 2 take over methods you can wire. similar to the idatalink pieces.

if you connected the RS unlock directly to the car, and not to the evo-all the 45second window will not exist. you unlock open the door and the car will shut down immediately. if you went through the evo-all for data controlled locks, that's where you get a 45s window.

next time you do one of these, connect everything as you would to the evo EXCEPT unlock. connect this directly to the bcm.

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Ted
2nd Year Tier 1 Medical School
Still installing as a hobby...pays for groceries
Compustar Expert

easy mike just checking because in a message posted a few ago you stated::
Yea that's great and all, but not what the dealer wants. The factory RS shuts down and so must this. There's got to be a simple way to do this...
and i didnt understand as the factory doesnt offer a remote start. and i understand service as i am a dealer service/installer, i only do retail thru referrals from my dealers, my primary source of business is car dealers

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Mike M2
Tech Manager
CS Dealer Services

tedmond wrote:

not sure if you knew, but there are 2 take over methods you can wire. similar to the idatalink pieces.

if you connected the RS unlock directly to the car, and not to the evo-all the 45second window will not exist. you unlock open the door and the car will shut down immediately. if you went through the evo-all for data controlled locks, that's where you get a 45s window.

next time you do one of these, connect everything as you would to the evo EXCEPT unlock. connect this directly to the bcm.

Not sure i understand. I'm not using any locks from the EVOALL to control. The RS is an upgrade and uses pulses from the motor legs to start. There isn't anything connected to the lock wires on the EVOALL.

The tech support at Fortin hasn't been any help. First they told me to connect door pin to hood on RS and we already know that's not right. Next they told me to disconnect the purple white unlock and also not to use datalink as this will stop it from seeing an unlock pulse. I'm not doing either of these, and i'm pretty sure the purple white is an output not an input. Isn't the pulse seen thru can data from the OBD2 connector? It is on the Idatalink units.

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Mike M2
Tech Manager
CS Dealer Services

I have an idea, Just throwing it out there. I would imagine whether or not you hit unlock on the factory fob to get in the car, that if the hood was opened the car would shut down. The reason I would think it would have to shut down the car even after hitting unlock, is that its a safety feature. How it shuts down is what you would want to duplicate. I would imagine that the Fortin Module would read the hood opening from the CAN network. Then it would output a Hood open signal to the remote starter at the same time turning itself(EVO) off. So when the hood is read from the CAN, both the fortin and remote starter turn down.
What I would try is a drivers door pin diode isolated to the hood pin wire on the car. The reason you would want it wired to the cars hood pin wire is so the Fortin Module can read it through the CAN network. If you wire it in between the Fortin Module and the Remote Starter, only the remote starter will see the hood opening and while that might turn off the remote starter, its the Fortin Module keeping the car running. You can't keep the Fortin module in the dark about the hood opening...So connecting to the factory hood pin wire I think is the key.

the PURPLE / white is an input for unlock on the evo-all, which gets converted into data signals and sent to the car using can.

so let me get this straight.
add on starter with evo-all. From my understanding, as long as the PURPLE / white does not see a unlock signal by w2w or data, the vehicle will shutdown instantly when the door is opened.

when you have any unlock signal (either it be hardwired or data) to the evo-all, a 45 second window will allow takeover.

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Ted
2nd Year Tier 1 Medical School
Still installing as a hobby...pays for groceries
Compustar Expert

if the car is a 2009 or higher it will open up the 45 second takeover window whether you use the aftermarket FOB, factory FOB, or intelikey to unlock the doors. If the doors are already unlocked and the customer opens the doors while its running on remote start without unlocking the doors first using the 3 methods above, the car will turn off. But Mike's customer doesn't want takeover. They are used to the old method that gave no takeover, so thats what they want. If the car is a 2008 or lower the customer would have to hit unlock on the after market remote for a takeover. unlocking with the factory FOB would turn off the car when the door opened. This is because they cannot pull the data of the CAN network on a 2008 and lower Nissan that allows for takeover using the factory FOB. I have a EVO-CAN here, I'm going to hook it up to the USB Flasher and see if there is anything in the Firmware options that might help. Give me a few minutes.

Well, I just took a look at programming options with the USB Flasher. I was hoping to see a option to check or uncheck "secure takeover" Nothing there for that, just the basics - Door, trunk, hood triggers-lock/unlock, etc.

Why not just send a -pulse after shutdown/rearm output from the remote start to the start/stop button?

flobee4 wrote:

I have an idea, Just throwing it out there. I would imagine whether or not you hit unlock on the factory fob to get in the car, that if the hood was opened the car would shut down. The reason I would think it would have to shut down the car even after hitting unlock, is that its a safety feature. How it shuts down is what you would want to duplicate. I would imagine that the Fortin Module would read the hood opening from the CAN network. Then it would output a Hood open signal to the remote starter at the same time turning itself(EVO) off. So when the hood is read from the CAN, both the fortin and remote starter turn down.
What I would try is a drivers door pin diode isolated to the hood pin wire on the car. The reason you would want it wired to the cars hood pin wire is so the Fortin Module can read it through the CAN network. If you wire it in between the Fortin Module and the Remote Starter, only the remote starter will see the hood opening and while that might turn off the remote starter, its the Fortin Module keeping the car running. You can't keep the Fortin module in the dark about the hood opening...So connecting to the factory hood pin wire I think is the key.

Apparently the EVOALL does not shut down after an open hood(at least that's what they are telling me). Here's what Fortin told me to do.

Connections on relay::

86 --> (+) ignition on the vehicle; you can use the same ignition that the diode is installed on but make the connection on the other side. Basically, not on the same side as the evo.
85 --> (-) Ground when running of remote start
87 --> to push button (-)
30 --> (-) door pin, and diode isolated with remote start hood pin.

This pulses the button but i bet timing will be critcal. I'm thinking more like door pin to RS hoodpin, then using Ground after shutdown to the start button...

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Mike M2
Tech Manager
CS Dealer Services

tedmond wrote:

the PURPLE / white is an input for unlock on the evo-all, which gets converted into data signals and sent to the car using can.

so let me get this straight.
add on starter with evo-all. From my understanding, as long as the PURPLE / white does not see a unlock signal by w2w or data, the vehicle will shutdown instantly when the door is opened.

when you have any unlock signal (either it be hardwired or data) to the evo-all, a 45 second window will allow takeover.

It's getting the door data thru the Canhi/lo wires on the OBD2 connector...

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Mike M2
Tech Manager
CS Dealer Services

Did you have to make a physical unlock connection to the Evo? If not then I believe what was stated above will work. If you connect the locks directly from the r/s to the vehicle the Evo will not get the unlock signal and therefore the 45 second window will never be activated.

The only way that won't work is if it is the newer (09+) where the take-over timer can be controlled by the factory unlock from the remote or the button on the door. But I would give that a shot first before you messed around with the relays.

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Kenny
Owner / Technician
KKD Garage LLC
Albany, NY 12205

the remote start he has doesnt have any lock/unlock outputs. It's a stand alone ADD ON starter, activated by pressing lock on the factory fob.

anyways i wanted to mimic the issue you had. after my exam I drove home and borrowed my neighbors 08 altima pts fully loaded with factory alarm/hoodpin (to test). Most models dont have the hood pin

compustar cm6200 wired as stand alone + evo-all (trying to mimic your setup, using door lock to activate start)

what I noticed (compared to 09 as i've not done any previous to 09) if you unlock with the key it wont shutdown.I connected my DMM to check door triggers(functional under rs), hood pin (non-functional during RS) which defeats the purpose of a hood pin right.

I then joined the hood pin status PINK/BLACK from evo to the cm6200, diode isolated with the door trigger GREEN out from the evo to the cm6200 hood pin GRAY/BLACK shutdown.

changed Option Group 4-03 aux1 output to setting 4 (neg shutdown)
the cm6200 aux1 VIOLET was connected to the PTS WHITE/ BLACK button control from the evo diode isolated.

this allowed the conditions of start, but as the door opens instant shutdown (of unit and car) The only downside was if a door was left open or had dome light supervision on from unlock(prior to rs), it wouldn't remote start. This can be addressed by telling customer "as a safety precaution, Door must be closed and locked in order for rs to work"

In my opinion, i don't think you need to run a hood pin (if there is a factory pin) since it wouldn't start with the hood open, and if the door was opened to reach for the hood release, the starter would have shut down already. it would be recommended if no factory hood pin exists.

After I was done tinkering with it for a little while, I ripped it out and gave my neighbour a 6pack and said thanks. I did 3 of his other cars, so he trusted me to "experiment" for my better understanding.

hope this helps you. I can get this vehicle at anytime Mike, if you want me to do some testing of various methods, shoot me a pm. I'll see what i can help with.

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Ted
2nd Year Tier 1 Medical School
Still installing as a hobby...pays for groceries
Compustar Expert

wow tedmond talk about going above and beyond to help a fellow 12volter kudos to you man that was awesome of you to do for him
but hell why not just leave the starter in for your buddy and tell him just to pay for parts lol

He has 3 other vehicles that I loaded up with 2way compustars already. This fourth car is his loaner company car,no point in having a start put in as car was due for return late spring(was aware prior to experimenting), which is why i just took it all out after.

It's funny, Almost everyone on my block has a remote start that I installed, so if i'm ever in need of a Guinea pig vehicle i simply ask. Good thing I'm on good terms with everyone.

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Ted
2nd Year Tier 1 Medical School
Still installing as a hobby...pays for groceries
Compustar Expert

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