Printer Friendly Forum Posts - remote start viper 554r

I had the Viper 554R system installed years an years ago in my Ford F150 pick up and its worked great and then all of a sudden part of it stopped. Its a 5.4l auto.
Remote start worked on my truck going to work and then coming home it only cranked the three sequential tries and did not start.

I have checked the 555f pats bypass and it has not moved from its location.
Ford Anti-Theft light still flashes on dash as usual an goes out on start
Checked all wiring and fuses and everything is tight and connected
Checked for the tach read and its okay by starting car and pushing Valet switch within 5 seconds and it reads solid on light.
Swapped out the relays one by one thinking one may had gone bad and no difference.

What I have found is if I place key in ignition without turning it and try to remote start it will not so its not a key read issue I dont believe.

I CAN put key in ignition and turn key forward into run position but not far enough to engage starter and then try and remote start and it fires right up. This is with remote start key fob attached to key ring
It makes me believe it may be a power issue probably as when key is forward everything is being powered?
I can not do the engage remote start and then pull keys from ignition as I could before ad truck stayed running as its huts right off now. I also checked to see if the N safety feature was messing up and it will only start in P as mentioned above with key installed in Run position.

I cant take it back to place that installed it as they have gone out of business a few years ago after buyout by new people.

Alarm part works great still but the remote just turns over the engine its three tries and never actually starts.

Any ideas of what else it may be? Not sure what else to check on this now but have all the install schematics and the like to look at if needed. Only people I have around near that can look at it are Best Buy and the tore of my sons Mustang install a bit so leery about going there. I know it was probably just inexperience doing these but the people that installed in mine did a impressive job with everything wire loomed, tied and secured.

Sorry guys its a 2000 Model year Ford F150 with 5.4l auto.

If it won't try to remote start with a working key in or near the ignition switch it's probably because the truck is seeing two transponder chips at the same time ( key chip and the 555F ).

If it won't do a PitStop and it cranks but won't do a remote start it really sounds like a R/S Ignition output problem. Especially if it remote starts OK with the ignition circuits being made by a key set to ON.

Did you pull the Vipers fuses and test them with a DMM?

Next verify that there is +12V on all the R/S input wires right at the R/S connector.

Then verify that the R/S ignition relay outputs are there and sequencing properly.

Never saw or used a Viper 554R but it sounds like one of the old ones with an external relay pack for the ignition wires so you might also have to verify the brains ignition relay control outputs, too.

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Soldering is fun!

The truck will start with the key in the ignition turned to the "Run" position but not as to the start position to engage starter and I then push the remote start keys on the remote. In fact it fires right up. I can push the remote keys again as I would for pitstop mode but the minute I turn the key to the off position to remove it shuts right off.
It wont start if the key is in the ignition in the off mode though. It just does the three cycles of starter turning over engine off and on and then beeps on remote and off.

I have replaced all the fuses with new ones as well as swapped relays one by one. Its has multiples hooked up in a bank of them. It was one of the first things I checked to see if maybe they were faulty.

I`ll check and see if I have voltage at every connection that should have for RS and their outputs. Its just weird it will start with key in ignition in the run position but if in off position it wont using the remote buttons. Something is not getting voltage or kicking a relay from the small amount I know about them.

Its just worked one am and then pm on the way home just turns the motor over but no start via RS

My best guess is that the Viper R/S is not supplying +12V output on the Ignition1 wire that goes to this wire in the trucks ignition switch harness :

Ignition Dark Blue/Light Green (+) @ ignition switch, black 15 pin plug

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Soldering is fun!

Thanks for the help and will check it out in am. Trucks in drive and its a bit dark under the dash. I checked and it wont start with key in accessory position either when hitting RS button and only turns over. Only in start position so its definitely looking like a voltage trigger thing somewhere.

Thanks again

Checked out the system and it has 0 volts going to the Dark Blue/Light Green wire from the RS. This has a Large Pink and a larger yellow wire wound together coming from 2 separate relays to a connector on the Dark Blue/Light green truck wire in ignition harness.

A small yellow line from the RS box 5 pin connector runs to the relay along with the pink line but IS NOT the same one joined to the line at the harness wire. It also has constant 12v power at this relay.

The larger yellow wire on the harness wire comes from another relay that doesn't have constant power at all. It has leads running from the starter wire Red with blue tracer. Its been cut with ones set of lines spliced in and running to relay and then back to the other side of the line again. Its the relay that send power to starter I presume.

Started pouring so had to stop for now.I was able to check all constant 12v lines and they all red power when they were supposed to.

I don't have any install guide or documentation on the Viper 554R so I might be wrong in my assumptions.

I'm guessing the Vipers relay with the thick Yellow wire is a Starter Kill relay. It uses the vehicles Ignition as a
control signal. It also is the R/S's Starter Output path to the vehicle side of the cut Starter wire.

The other relay is the Ignition relay. The fact that it does not output +12V during a remote start or PitStop is the
problem. You have verified power at the relay and replaced the relay. That would leave the Vipers (-) Ignition relay
control signal as the probable culprit. I'm guessing the the small gauge Pink wire in the 5 Pin connector is the
control signal for the Ignition relay. If this wires goes from the Viper to either Pin 85 or 86 of that ignition relay, use
a DMM to verify that it goes to (-) during a remote start ( to turn on the relay & output +12V to the F150's Dark Blue/
Light Green ignition wire ).

DMM set up for the above test : DMM set to +20V DC. Red test lead to +12V constant. Black test lead to thin Pink
wire. DMM should go the +12V during a remote start.

The next test would be to apply a ground to this thin Pink wire during a remote start to energize the Ignition relay and
output the +12V to the vehicles Ignition1 wire. If that makes it start up normally then the Viper 554R has a bad output
and might need to be replaced.

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Soldering is fun!

Great detective work, BUT be VERY careful of what you say has constant power. "constant" 12v comes from 3 places on these old buggers.

Two large red wires supply the power that ends up feeding the ignition wires during a remote start.
One small red wire from the alarm module supplies the constant 12v needed to activate the relays. This wire is in the ribbon cable that connects the RS relays to the alarm/rs module.

Ah Catback, family origins British you BUGGER?
Or watching too much BBC?
Definitely ignition supply from the RS so check all fuses and feeds follow what Kreg and Catback said.
Catback, empty your in box please, I needed to talk.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

kreg357 wrote:

I don't have any install guide or documentation on the Viper 554R so I might be wrong in my assumptions.

I'm guessing the Vipers relay with the thick Yellow wire is a Starter Kill relay. It uses the vehicles Ignition as a
control signal. It also is the R/S's Starter Output path to the vehicle side of the cut Starter wire.

The other relay is the Ignition relay. The fact that it does not output +12V during a remote start or PitStop is the
problem. You have verified power at the relay and replaced the relay. That would leave the Vipers (-) Ignition relay
control signal as the probable culprit. I'm guessing the the small gauge Pink wire in the 5 Pin connector is the
control signal for the Ignition relay. If this wires goes from the Viper to either Pin 85 or 86 of that ignition relay, use
a DMM to verify that it goes to (-) during a remote start ( to turn on the relay & output +12V to the F150's Dark Blue/
Light Green ignition wire ).

DMM set up for the above test : DMM set to +20V DC. Red test lead to +12V constant. Black test lead to thin Pink
wire. DMM should go the +12V during a remote start.

The next test would be to apply a ground to this thin Pink wire during a remote start to energize the Ignition relay and
output the +12V to the vehicles Ignition1 wire. If that makes it start up normally then the Viper 554R has a bad output
and might need to be replaced.

Thanks and I will check that next. Rain let up a bit and neighbor had me tracking down a short issue in his trailer and then it started pouring again. I will check this when it lets up and post what I find.

catback wrote:

Great detective work, BUT be VERY careful of what you say has constant power. "constant" 12v comes from 3 places on these old buggers.

Two large red wires supply the power that ends up feeding the ignition wires during a remote start.
One small red wire from the alarm module supplies the constant 12v needed to activate the relays. This wire is in the ribbon cable that connects the RS relays to the alarm/rs module.

I meant constant power as it has red leads jumped over to a few relays in a row that shows power under normal or RS operation cycles.
I pulled the 5 pin ribbon cable out of the RS box and checked it on a DMM earlier and it showed 12v on all pins but the yellow line. So its feeding 12v in 4 out of 5 to RS box but didnt check to see when in RS cycle or not.

Thanks guys and when weather breaks I will check out some more.

When I put the voltmeter as stated:
DMM set up for the above test : DMM set to +20V DC. Red test lead to +12V constant. Black test lead to thin Pink
wire. DMM should go the +12V during a remote start.

It DOES NOT go to 12V at all. I tried a direct power source with constant 12v for the lead.

Next test I did:
The next test would be to apply a ground to this thin Pink wire during a remote start to energize the Ignition relay and
output the +12V to the vehicles Ignition1 wire. If that makes it start up normally then the Viper 554R has a bad output
and might need to be replaced.

It makes the relay trigger the second the negative lead is put onto the small pink wire from the ribbon cable. The truck does turn over but still wont fire.

That pink needs to be grounded throughout the cycle.
Is there a pink/white on that loom?
I've a feeling the low neg. trigger output for ignition might shot.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

The truck actually has 7 relays wired in but the ribbon cables goes to the main bank of 4

First relay in that bank has Pink from 5 wire ribbon to 85 this then is jumped to relay 2 on 85 also
First Relay in that bank has Yellow from 5 wire ribbon to 87
Red wires jumped across the whole bank to each relays 86 in the relay bank wiring
I have 2 fused large red lines coming in and each one splits across two of the relays on 87
First Relay also has pink with white stripe on 30 going to the Grey with yellow strip on the ignition harness

I have one large pink wire on relay 1 on 30

BUT I also have one large pink w/white stripe going to another relay bank of just two also coming from ignition bundle. Its also on 30 but goes to the Light blue with pink stripe wire in ignition harness. This relay also has a bright pink wire that comes back through wiring to first relay and is tied into the pink jumper wire of relay 1 and 2 on pins 85.

Correction..
Relay 2 has the pink with white wire not relay 1 one as written above.
Relay 1 is only large pink on 30

The bank of 4 relays is the remote start relay pack: 2 Ignition, 1 Accessory, and 1 Starter relay.

Of the other relays, one is the starter kill/anti-grind. The others could be parking light and dome supervision but no way to know for sure without testing.

Since you have the relay pack in hand the tests to do would be:

1. With ribbon cable disconnected from alarm module, check voltage on both red power feeds to the relay pack.
2. Check voltage on the large pink (2) wires going from the relay pack to the ignition. Do this by cycling the key on and then off. With the key on these wires should show 12v IF connected and show no volts with the key off.
3. With ribbon cable connected, initiate a remote start. You should feel the relays click on.
4. Manually activate the ignition relays and check voltage on the pink wires and check against the vehicle's ignition powering up.

There's only one thin pink wire. And good luck with terminal numbers without pulling the relays out of the socket.

The ribbon cable is made up of Red, Yellow, Pink, Orange, and Purple.

Sorry CB, no experience with this unit actually I don't need to pull the relays, I just look at the wire end, I'm sure Kreg feels the same.
Look at the underside, with certain OEM exceptions. all aftermarket 5 pin and 4 pin (Bosch/Tycho cube type have the same pin configuration:-
standard__cube_relay_configuration.png

85 and 86 are either sides of the coil ISO (and ALL motor manufacturers) mandates 85 as NEG and 86 POS.
87 is normally open, NO, 87a normally closed NC and 30 common.
That means that in the "off" case, no voltage across the coil 87 is disconnected and 87a is connected to 30.
When a voltage is applied to the coil 87 connects to 30 and 87a is disconnected.
For practical purposes a diode is connected across the coil known as a "quenching" diode because when the relay shuts down about 200 volts "spikes" across the coil and this can feed back to the source and burn it out which is what could have happened here. Normally used is the 1N4004, band side to 86.
Second diagram shows with diode:-
FFC_standard__cube_relay_configuration.png

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Indeed...this is OLD stuff, not what you young whippersnappers use today with built-in relays or even micro relays :D

The relay pack doesn't have any quenching diodes or diodes of any sort. Just a fuse (10A I think) that connects the red 12v constant, for the ignition relays, to the 12v side of the relay coils (all 4) and the red wire in the ribbon cable.

I have one of these oldies (554T) and I'm currently working on it myself, so I have the luxury of fresh hands on recollection.

CB I RETIRED 3 years ago next month.
Except there are no people qualified (or in fact about 5) in the UK to do this work, from what I see on the forum there's NO ONE between here and Israel qualified.
That's why I had to schlep 400 miles return to Manchester on Friday and next Thursday 200 to Birmingham to do a Supra.
Are you saying no diodes on the relays?
If so I bet the output driver transistor is blown.
Kreg, 3-0 up at half time, feeling better.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

You don't sound very retired, actually I think I'm more retired than you.

I've had this 554T for over 10 years (countless number of remote starts and pit-stop takeovers) and she still works great. The only thing showing it's age is the two-way remote. It works but the display has some issues.

Fine agreed now go and answer that 2010 Hyundai Elantra thread, I'm having doubts about his ability to make 6 connections.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

howie ll wrote:

Fine agreed now go and answer that 2010 Hyundai Elantra thread, I'm having doubts about his ability to make 6 connections.

Can't, I'm retired posted_image

I'm also but on a high 'cause of today's football, top of the Premiership (for about 2 days).

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Since you have the relay pack in hand the tests to do would be:

1. With ribbon cable disconnected from alarm module, check voltage on both red power feeds to the relay pack.
2. Check voltage on the large pink (2) wires going from the relay pack to the ignition. Do this by cycling the key on and then off. With the key on these wires should show 12v IF connected and show no volts with the key off.
3. With ribbon cable connected, initiate a remote start. You should feel the relays click on.
4. Manually activate the ignition relays and check voltage on the pink wires and check against the vehicle's ignition powering up.

1-yes have 12v to each
2-Ignition on 12v and ignition off 0
Got to three and click..click...All this checking stuff has actually run down the battery with hood and doors open.
I have the battery on a charger now and will check the rest as soon as I have battery power again.

Side note: I have had this truck since new around 12/99. I only have 86,000 on it and it still honestly looks new inside and out as I only use it for towing the toys once in awhile. Remote start was installed in 2003 and has been flawless until that one day. I used it to remote start going to work and when I went to leave it just cranked engine over its 3 cycles but never started. Like mentioned if I put key in the ignition and put in Run position it will RS with engine firing but this is the only way it will now. All other ways the engine just cranks and turns over for 3 cycles without firing up and then RS shuts down.

I really appreciate all the help guys on this. Just hope its not a bad box and will have to remove it all to install a new system. I also have a ARE cover in the back with GB detector back there wired in watching the contents in alarm activation.

87 and 86 on the relays should show 12V+ constant.
85 should show NEG (-) on the pink and pink white thin wires until R/S is activated, then the thin purple should show NEG to activate start.
Thin Orange should show NEG when running.
The starter cut relay will have a 12V+ on 86 when ignition key is turned and a 12V+ constant at 87.

Yes on first
Yes on second
Yes on third
Yes on 4th.

The small yellow wire from the ribbon cable is also on 87a not 87 and I`m sorry I mistyped that.

3. With ribbon cable connected, initiate a remote start. You should feel the relays click on.
4. Manually activate the ignition relays and check voltage on the pink wires and check against the vehicle's ignition powering up.

3: All the relays click on RS start EXCEPT for the single one by itself and the one with the small yellow wire from ribbon cable. I swapped another new relay and still no click on that one with RS or not.

4-Not sure exactly how you mean to do this? The pink wires are reading the 12v with key turned but not when key is off as tested before. How should I manually engage them?

The one with the small yellow is an important one, it's primary ignition.

To test manually, with an incandescent test light or test jumper. Connect one end of the tester to ground and apply the other end to the small pink wire at the relay. The relay should click on, if it does then the issue is with the alarm module or the wiring (small pink) between the module and the relay pack.

Well this isn't good then. Took a solid jumper wire and attached to ground. Touched the other end to the small pink wire and solenoid clicked. Something else in engine compartment also clicked but not sure from where.

I`ll see if the wiring got nicked, chaffed or etc but its all been nicely placed in loom so will have to strip that all off to check.

I really appreciate the help.

That "other click" when you applied ground to the small Pink wire was something turning on because you just energized the relay and applied power to the trucks main Ignition wire.

Hey C.B., does the Viper 554R have any extra (-) Ignition outputs? I'm guessing that GWR is used for the bypass module if the 554R doesn't have a DBI D2D port... but maybe doing a diode split on GWR could compensate for a bad (-) 200mA Ignition output. posted_image

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Soldering is fun!

Kreg been thinking that all day but too busy watching us hammer another team 4-0 about 6 times, watching Gross Point Blank yet again and helping some poor guy in Iraq with his Hyundai.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Just looked at the first post, blimey, a working 555f?

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Used a few 555F's in the day. Never liked them much, but was getting them for under $10. No D2D, so the GWR is used for the 555F.

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Soldering is fun!

howie ll wrote:

Just looked at the first post, blimey, a working 555f?

Oh that makes me feel better :) Actually they installed mine and my next door neighbors in his 2003 F150 the same week. Both of us have the 555F and they are still working...luckily. Mines just not working in other parts now.

I also have a PKALL NIB that some friend gave me in case I ever had issues. He had it for his Cobra but never used it. Guess if I have to replace system I could use it in new one. Also have 4 new relays if ever needed too now.

If this does appear to be a controller issue, any suggestions on a new system to install. Need one like I have now that can tie in to the GB detector in canopy and etc. I`ll just have to solder and HS the one line back together they cut to interface into ignition harness circuit.

Kreg, the 554 doesn't have a D2D port, it does have a third ignition (-) output H3/2 Blue/Black. It's on the same harness as the blue (GWR) status output.

Follow Kreg's suggestion ref the blue armed out put, branch off and place 2 diodes 1N4004 in each branch, band towards brain then cut thin pink an inch or so away from the relay and join branch you just made to it.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Sorry crossed in time forget my last post and follow Catback's last post, then no need for diodes.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

catback wrote:

Kreg, the 554 doesn't have a D2D port, it does have a third ignition (-) output H3/2 Blue/Black. It's on the same harness as the blue (GWR) status output.

Its not being used as its terminated and crimped with heat shrink tubing. I saw it earlier from the 6 wire harness with hood pin/cutoff and tach and brake. I just remember looking at them tracing them back.

So use it, make sure it goes to ground when you initiate the remote start if so go ahead and you should be good to go.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

I have to admit I`m not real used to this stuff and a little confused possibly.

Am I using this 3rd ignition wire blue/w black stripe to replace the small pink wire at relay or in addition to it? As long as its sending the ground when activating remote start as you said.

Yes. The assumption from your testing and symptoms is that the small Pink wire is not activating the Ignition Relay. If you cut the Pink wire and replace it with a similar output function wire, you should be able to get the Ignition relay output working properly again and remote start the vehicle. The (-) 3rd Ignition output is the same and as long as it is generated totally separate from the Pink wire circuit, all should be good.

So cut the thin Pink in an accessible area and splice in the H3/2 Blue/Black on the side that goes to the relay. At this point the thin Pink isn't doing anything and the Blue/Black is controlling the relay.

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Soldering is fun!

kreg357 wrote:

Yes. The assumption from your testing and symptoms is that the small Pink wire is not activating the Ignition Relay. If you cut the Pink wire and replace it with a similar output function wire, you should be able to get the Ignition relay output working properly again and remote start the vehicle. The (-) 3rd Ignition output is the same and as long as it is generated totally separate from the Pink wire circuit, all should be good.

So cut the thin Pink in an accessible area and splice in the H3/2 Blue/Black on the side that goes to the relay. At this point the thin Pink isn't doing anything and the Blue/Black is controlling the relay.

Thanks and will do in the mornings and see if that works. Thanks again for all the help.

Checked this morning and yes - output at the BLACK/ blue 3rd ignition wire.

Cut the small pink wire from 5 way ribbon a few inches from relay and tied the BLACK/ blue wire to the pink wire heading to relay.

Tried remote start and it turns over as usual but engine does not fire still.

Does the relay and/or ignition come on?

Relay clicks and then ignition kicks over but truck wont fire. I separated the relays so I can hold each one individually to verify they click. They slip fit into each other to create the 4 bank of 4 relays normally.

Check input red? And output violet/purple? from that relay.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

So are you saying the relay with the small yellow wire is working now and it's properly powering up the ignition...better than before when the relay wasn't clicking?

If the above is working and good, then try remote starting with the key in the ignition but left off. If it works that way then something is awry with your 555f setup.

That relay does not have a PURPLE / violet wire with the pink one. The purple wire is on another relay

This may help

Relay 1
87    Fused large red wire also connected to Relay 2-87
86    Red wire-connected in series to 1,2,3,4-86
30    Large Pink with white trace
85    Med size pink wire also connected to 85 on Relay 2

Relay 2
87    Connected to Relay 2 through fused red wire
86    Red wire-connected in series to 1,2,3,4-86
30    Solid pink large wire
87a   Yellow wire from 5 wire ribbon.
85    Small pink wire from 5 wire ribbon cable also connected to relay 1-85. This is also has tap to bright pink wire running to bank of two relays

Relay3
87    Connects to second large Red Fused wire
86    Red wire-connected in series to 1,2,3,4-86
30    Large orange wire
85    Small orange wire from 5 wire ribbon cable

Relay4
87   Connected to Relay 3 fused wire
86   Small red wire from 5 wire ribbon then Red wire-connected in series to 1,2,3,-86 also
30   Large Purple wire
85   Small purple wire from 5 wire ribbon cable

Other relays in 2 bank one
Relay5
86 Large red wire - jumps and connects to 87 also
87 comes in from 86 and then out to one side of fuse and then to
relay 6-87
85 Bright pink wire that also jumps back to relay two 85
30 Large Pink wire with white tracer

Relay 6
87 Large red wire from other side of fused connection from 87 on relay5
86 Red wire from 87 connected to this
85 Orange wire that also runs to Relay 3 orange 85
30 Large orange wire

Single Relay 7
All of these wires run back to ignition harness wiring
87a Black wire- connects to one side of ignition RED / blue tracer. Installer cut this wire in half to do so
86   Med Yellow wire- connects to blue/green trace. Its connected also to large pink wire from relay 2-30
85   Orange wire- goes up in dash along with another small red wire to ??
30   Green wire-Goes to other side of RED / blue tracer ignition wire and is also joined with large purple wire going to relay 4-30

Hope this helps you and me a bit more...

catback wrote:

So are you saying the relay with the small yellow wire is working now and it's properly powering up the ignition...better than before when the relay wasn't clicking?

If the above is working and good, then try remote starting with the key in the ignition but left off. If it works that way then something is awry with your 555f setup.

No go with key in or key out..cranks over but no fire. Yes relay kicks over with new wire run to small pink on relay with yellow.

I just posted how all the wires are run to what relay.

RELAY 4 for gods sake.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Didn't mean to upset to get BOLD letters. Trying things from two separate people at same time and jumping from switching/splicing relay wiring on one from pink to black then talking about checking purple wire possibly in same relay when there isn't got confusing.

My apologies..

The point is you should be testing ALL of them a relay clicking simply means the coil is working, what if you have a blown fuse on the supply side or the internal switching is burnt out?
Frankly listening for it to click won't tell you anything.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

howie ll wrote:

RELAY 4 for gods sake.

Relay4
All reds 12v all the time
Small purple (+) 12v idle
Large Purple (-) 12v idle

Remote start activated
All reds 12v
Small purple drops to 0
Large Purple drops to 0

Have checked all the fuses as mentioned before on both sides of circuit for power and replaced all the fuses to verify also.
Replaced all the relays in groups of 4 to make sure one wasn't faulty.
Have checked all the other wire combos as all people here have instructed to do so and posted the results as I could

Like I mentioned this stuff is all brand new to me as far as RS/Alarms and doing the best I can on the limited knowledge I have of them to test them. I know it can get frustrating for those that do it all the time trying to help a newbie troubleshoot but thank you all regardless.

Voltage readings at idle with no remote start activated or key in ignition-- + reading pos voltage state   - reading neg voltage state

Relay 1
87   +12v   Fused large red wire also connected to Relay 2-87
86   +12v Red wire-connected in series to 1,2,3,4-86
30   -12v   Large Pink with white trace
85   -12v   Med size pink wire also connected to 85 on Relay 2

Relay 2
87   +12v   Connected to Relay 2 through fused red wire
86   +12v   Red wire-connected in series to 1,2,3,4-86
30   -12v   Solid pink large wire
87a -12v   Yellow wire from 5 wire ribbon.
85   +12v   Small pink wire from 5 wire ribbon cable also connected to relay 1-85. This is also has tap to bright pink wire running to bank of two relays

Relay3
87 +12v    Connects to second large Red Fused wire
86 +12V    Red wire-connected in series to 1,2,3,4-86
30 -12v    Large orange wire
85 +12v    Small orange wire from 5 wire ribbon cable

Relay4
87 +12v    Connected to Relay 3 fused wire
86 +12v    Small red wire from 5 wire ribbon then Red wire-connected in series to 1,2,3,-86 also
30 -12v    Large Purple wire
85 +12v    Small purple wire from 5 wire ribbon cable

Other relays in 2 bank one
Relay5
86 +12v   Large red wire - jumps and connects to 87 also
87 +12v   comes in from 86 and then out to one side of fuse and then to relay 6-87
85 +12v   Bright pink wire that also jumps back to relay two 85
30 0v     Large Pink wire with white tracer

Relay 6
87   +12v   Large red wire from other side of fused connection from 87 on relay5
86   +12v   Red wire from 87 connected to this
85   +12v   small orange wire that also runs to Relay 3 orange 85
30    0v    Large orange wire

Single Relay 7
All of these wires run back to ignition harness wiring
87a 0v     Black wire- connects to one side of ignition RED / blue tracer. Installer cut this wire in half to do so
86    -12v   Med Yellow wire- connects to blue/green trace. Its connected also to large pink wire from relay 2-30
85    0v    Orange wire- goes up in dash along with another small red wire to ??
30    -12v   Green wire-Goes to other side of RED / blue tracer ignition wire and is also joined with large purple wire going to relay 4-30

On relay 4 with ignition on, you should have 12V+ at 86 0v at 30 and open circuit at small purple.
With ignition on, start to be activated small purple should go to 0v and large to 12V+. With the ignition on, try grounding the thin purple if the relay clicks you've either got no supply at 87 or the relay has failed.
Check voltage at 87, should be either 12v+ constant or with ignition live.

-------------
Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

All I need to know is specifically what isn't working? Can you start the truck and then do a pit-stop/takeover at this time (since rewiring the thin pink)?

Because it may be easier for some.

Relay 1 = Second Ignition relay
Relay 2 = Primary Ignition relay
Relay 3 = Accessory Relay
Relay 4 = Starter Relay
Relay 5 = Additional (Third) Ignition relay
Relay 6 = Additional Accessory Relay
Relay 7 = Starter Kill/Anti-grind relay

Relays 1,2,3,5,6 should show 12v when the remote start first comes on.
Relay 1,2,5 should remain on when the vehicle cranks.
Relay 3 and 6 will drop out during cranking
Relay 4 will only show 12v (come on) during cranking.

The vehicle has two ignition wires and two accessory wires, not sure what the previous installer is using the additional/third ignition relay for. Putting your DMM on the relay's pin 30 and seeing if it goes to +12v when you turn the key on will determine if it's wired to an ignition wire - It doesn't have to be as I'm only seeing a max of two ignition wires for a 2000 F-150 w/ rear abs.

howie ll wrote:

On relay 4 with ignition on, you should have 12V+ at 86 0v at 30 and open circuit at small purple.
With ignition on, start to be activated small purple should go to 0v and large to 12V+. With the ignition on, try grounding the thin purple if the relay clicks you've either got no supply at 87 or the relay has failed.
Check voltage at 87, should be either 12v+ constant or with ignition live.

With ignition to on and small purple wire grounded, engine fires up and runs instantly
87 is 12v constant and or with ignition on

voltages with key to on
Large purple has 0v
Small purple has 12v

Start to activate
Large purple goes to 12v
Small purple voltage drops significantly but since key is in Run position it will fire remote start and start engine and voltage goes back up.

catback wrote:

All I need to know is specifically what isn't working? Can you start the truck and then do a pit-stop/takeover at this time (since rewiring the thin pink)?

Because it may be easier for some.

Relay 1 = Second Ignition relay
Relay 2 = Primary Ignition relay
Relay 3 = Accessory Relay
Relay 4 = Starter Relay
Relay 5 = Additional (Third) Ignition relay
Relay 6 = Additional Accessory Relay
Relay 7 = Starter Kill/Anti-grind relay

Relays 1,2,3,5,6 should show 12v when the remote start first comes on.
Relay 1,2,5 should remain on when the vehicle cranks.
Relay 3 and 6 will drop out during cranking
Relay 4 will only show 12v (come on) during cranking.

The vehicle has two ignition wires and two accessory wires, not sure what the previous installer is using the additional/third ignition relay for. Putting your DMM on the relay's pin 30 and seeing if it goes to +12v when you turn the key on will determine if it's wired to an ignition wire - It doesn't have to be as I'm only seeing a max of two ignition wires for a 2000 F-150 w/ rear abs.

With pink wire bypassed with new wire I can put key to run position, activate remote start and engine starts and runs. I can just turn key back and remove and engine keeps running until I hit brake or hit RS buttons on remote now.

mike leiter wrote:

catback wrote:

All I need to know is specifically what isn't working? Can you start the truck and then do a pit-stop/takeover at this time (since rewiring the thin pink)?

Because it may be easier for some.

Relay 1 = Second Ignition relay
Relay 2 = Primary Ignition relay
Relay 3 = Accessory Relay
Relay 4 = Starter Relay
Relay 5 = Additional (Third) Ignition relay
Relay 6 = Additional Accessory Relay
Relay 7 = Starter Kill/Anti-grind relay

Relays 1,2,3,5,6 should show 12v when the remote start first comes on.
Relay 1,2,5 should remain on when the vehicle cranks.
Relay 3 and 6 will drop out during cranking
Relay 4 will only show 12v (come on) during cranking.

The vehicle has two ignition wires and two accessory wires, not sure what the previous installer is using the additional/third ignition relay for. Putting your DMM on the relay's pin 30 and seeing if it goes to +12v when you turn the key on will determine if it's wired to an ignition wire - It doesn't have to be as I'm only seeing a max of two ignition wires for a 2000 F-150 w/ rear abs.

With pink wire bypassed with new wire I can put key to run position, activate remote start and engine starts and runs. I can just turn key back and remove and engine keeps running until I hit brake or hit RS buttons on remote now.

BUT I can not start truck normally with key and then activate PITSTOP and remove key. RS buttons are pushed, it beeps and shows running status on truck but shuts right off when key is turned off.

mike leiter wrote:

mike leiter wrote:

catback wrote:

All I need to know is specifically what isn't working? Can you start the truck and then do a pit-stop/takeover at this time (since rewiring the thin pink)?

Because it may be easier for some.

Relay 1 = Second Ignition relay
Relay 2 = Primary Ignition relay
Relay 3 = Accessory Relay
Relay 4 = Starter Relay
Relay 5 = Additional (Third) Ignition relay
Relay 6 = Additional Accessory Relay
Relay 7 = Starter Kill/Anti-grind relay

Relays 1,2,3,5,6 should show 12v when the remote start first comes on.
Relay 1,2,5 should remain on when the vehicle cranks.
Relay 3 and 6 will drop out during cranking
Relay 4 will only show 12v (come on) during cranking.

The vehicle has two ignition wires and two accessory wires, not sure what the previous installer is using the additional/third ignition relay for. Putting your DMM on the relay's pin 30 and seeing if it goes to +12v when you turn the key on will determine if it's wired to an ignition wire - It doesn't have to be as I'm only seeing a max of two ignition wires for a 2000 F-150 w/ rear abs.

With pink wire bypassed with new wire I can put key to run position, activate remote start and engine starts and runs. I can just turn key back and remove and engine keeps running until I hit brake or hit RS buttons on remote now.

BUT I cant start truck normally with key and then activate PITSTOP and remove key. RS buttons are pushed, it beeps and shows running status on truck but shuts right off when key is turned off.

DISREGARD that last update as the jumper wire was off as I was testing other relays again and it got knocked off. I was waiting to attach permanently till we were sure it was pink wire issue.

With Pink jumper bypassed with new wire:

I CAN do a pitstop takeover now and the truck keeps running. I can do it either by putting key in ignition to run and pushing RS buttons and then removing key and keeps running

OR

I can start truck normally and then while running push RS buttons on remote, it beeps and shows running with countdown timer and i can pull keys out with it still running.

You have an issue with the 555f, make sure the blue wire from the 554R is grounding when you activate the remote start. Make power and grounds are good at the 555f, also check on the donor key ensure its properly seated. In other words check out the whole 555f setup.

weird that the truck won't start with the key inserted but not turned via remote start

catback wrote:

You have an issue with the 555f, make sure the blue wire from the 554R is grounding when you activate the remote start. Make power and grounds are good at the 555f, also check on the donor key ensure its properly seated. In other words check out the whole 555f setup.

Will check that and the pats wiring. The truck never used a donor key with the setup an this pats bypass?

catback wrote:

weird that the truck won't start with the key inserted but not turned via remote start

Not sure what you mean on this?

The DEI 555F bypass module has a transponder chip that is programmed like an additional transponder key during
the original remote starter install. Then the 555F's chip is secured to the vehicles transponder antenna ring.

Being as you have learned your system and wiring so well, why not spend $80 and get a replacement unit. The new
system will give you two new remotes and a nice neat package with internal relays.

If the 555F is still working you can re-use that. Here is a simple test. Buy a plain metal ignition key at the local
hardware store for $1.99. Make sure the 555F has +12V on it's Red wire and jumper the Blue wire to chassis ground.
Then try a key start with your new plain key. If it starts and runs, the 555F is working fine.

-------------
Soldering is fun!

mike leiter wrote:

Will check that and the pats wiring. The truck never used a donor key with the setup an this pats bypass?

Not sure what you mean on this?

Nevermind, I'm thinking of something else.

What I meant is insert the key but don't turn it to the run position leave it "off" or "lock" and then activate the remote start.

Kreg, what are you thoughts on the cause of the no start problem? Couldn't he not just wrap the key in tin foil rather than pay to have a "test" key cut.

The key wrap test using aluminum foil will work if and only if the key head is completely wrapped with multiple layers of foil, so there is no chance of the keys' transponder chip being seen by the truck. You will have to test first by trying to start the truck a few times with the wrapped key to insure it won't start*** prior to the next test of manually turning on the 555F via a ground to it's Blue wire.

*** To prevent problems, always start the truck with an unwrapped key in between failed, wrapped key, test starts. This will clear any "transponder" issues the truck sees so it won't get upset about multiple failed attempts in a row and possibly lock you out.

Here is a link to the 555F install guide : https://www.xpresskit.com/DocumentDownload.aspx?documentid=4731&productid=34&firmwareid=1511

CatBack : Not sure what the issue is with a R/S. Looks like using the (-)3rd IGN instead of the thin Pink wire fixed the missing Ignition problem, now that PitStop mode works. The plain key or foil wrap test will verify the 555F. Like I said, being as the system is old and the remotes are worn a bit, at this point I would go for a upgrade. The 554R has problems and all those external relays... A new system would only require 2 external relays ( one for ACC2 and one for Starter Kill ). Sometimes, troubleshooting things remotely is frustrating, when you know that in person with a DMM in hand, you could isolate a problem in a half hour or so.

Not sure what Viper product is functionally similar to the 554R but if the price is reasonable and you're going to keep the truck for a few more years, why not get rid of a system that has issues? ( I'm probably a bit lazy and I do like new things. Comes down to the old saying about "beating a dead horse". )

-------------
Soldering is fun!

Kreg, I agree. Remote diagnostics through an internet forum is painful. Maybe tele-diagnostics through skype or other video conferencing method is the way to go. posted_image

Any remote start/alarm combo would be an upgrade but everything would have to be rewired, wire by wire. One thing you can't get on newer viper units is AED (Automatic Engine Disable). It's kind of like passive arming but just for the starter kill. I love it because my 554T is installed on my pickup truck and when loading and unloading or working out of it I don't want the alarm to arm passively but I would like it to have some protection.

For mike or whomever needs it if you google "554r manual" you'll get the installation guide for the 554r. It's a top search result and comes straight from directed.

Can I ask one question of Mike?
Remove key from vehicle, does it start?
Insert key, now does it start?
If no to the first and yes to the second it's the immobiliser bypass.
If no to both it's relay 4 though all should be checked back from the output.
That simple.
Bloody hell 7 effing pages and the OP hasn't done any real diagnostic testing.

-------------
Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

howie ll wrote:

Bloody hell 7 effing pages and the OP hasn't done any real diagnostic testing.

Maybe if you skype with him things would move faster...Look on the bright side things are progressing faster than if we were communicating via snail mail. posted_image

Personally, I'm questioning the blue status output (not sure if I already said that).

How do we pass on our diagnostic experience?

-------------
Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

howie ll wrote:

Can I ask one question of Mike?
Remove key from vehicle, does it start?
Insert key, now does it start?
If no to the first and yes to the second it's the immobiliser bypass.
If no to both it's relay 4 though all should be checked back from the output.
That simple.
Bloody hell 7 effing pages and the OP hasn't done any real diagnostic testing.

No key in and no it doesnt start
Key in ignition but only sitting in off...doesnt start
Key in ignition in accessory position...doesnt start
Key in ignition in Run position it starts

Have taken ohm meter to every wire in the harness I could and no breaks
Took a meter to each connection made to be sure signal was present before and after and through the connections that were made in truck
Tested every 12v circuit and tested and then replaced every fuse with new ones as they can show good but be bad.
Re-grounded all the leads to make sure they were getting good contact at ground. Installer actually sanded small spot clean where grounds connected.
Replaced all the relays now with all brand new ones
Tested ever circuit I could before coming here with the very limited knowledge I have of these kind of electronics before I asked for help.
Pats connections and being in the ring was one of the first things I checked before coming here as well as a few others as mentioned.

Like I said before I have very limited knowledge of this stuff and saying I had done no real diagnostics on my own is a little harsh seeing I have tried things on my own. I even had to guy buy a good DMM to try and start checking this stuff before getting on the forum.

Don't forget you guys know this forward, backwards and can do it in your sleep and have been doing it for years, I dont and admit it openly. Its frustrating to you guys as the comments last page have shown and apologize for such.

I`ll back off on the repair and let you guys get back to helping people that know what they are doing.

I DO appreciate all the help that was given to try and help fix it with my limited knowledge of such.

1) This is quite complicated for a beginner if you've never done this before. You'd have been better off going to a specialist.
2)In this instance an incandescent test light, Snap-On, MAC, sears would have been totally adequate.
3)Elimination, during the R/S and (attempted)cycle the first thing you have to test is whether the relay outputs (30) test live (12V+).
If so we're looking at the bypass.
But first not check thin inputs which should all go to ground (85)
Then we test the live side (86) either constant or ign live.
Last check the 12V+ inputs (87).

-------------
Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Actually all of the above proves my old saying, testing a non-working unit that was someone else's install takes on average 4 times the original install.

-------------
Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Don't be discouraged by others frustration.

It sounds like you know what the relays should be doing and how to test for it so if you question any of that just ask. It also sounds like you understand the 555f and how it generally works and how it's connected up to be activated. I say check the blue wire from the 554R that goes to the 555f, ensure it grounds out during a remote start. Your thin pink ignition in the ribbon cable went out, perhaps the blue status did the same.

Essentially, all the areas that we would go over have been covered. It's just a matter of going over the same areas with a finer tooth comb and spotting the missing link.

catback wrote:

Don't be discouraged by others frustration.

It sounds like you know what the relays should be doing and how to test for it so if you question any of that just ask. It also sounds like you understand the 555f and how it generally works and how it's connected up to be activated. I say check the blue wire from the 554R that goes to the 555f, ensure it grounds out during a remote start. Your thin pink ignition in the ribbon cable went out, perhaps the blue status did the same.

Essentially, all the areas that we would go over have been covered. It's just a matter of going over the same areas with a finer tooth comb and spotting the missing link.

Sorry it took so long for update on system. Truck has been out of commission due to engine rebuild ( Motor top end issues all of a sudden) two days after my last post here. Truck is back on road with motor rebuilt and was sent to shop to have 554R looked at. Seems that all the connections check out one one round, they try a remote start and then some wont read any readings and then all of a sudden do. They narrowed it down to a bad brain box that send signals like its supposed to one cycle and then the next it wont. Kill power to unit and then re-power and it sends again and then next cycle it wont. So the remote start part of the brain box is faulty. All of the alarm side functions work fine as well as the 555F

They said they have a older NIB system of a Avital 5303L that will be pretty much a easy swap mostly wire for wire and eliminating most of the relays. They will let me have for $50.00 if I want it to install or they will install for a few hundred more since they have to take out old system and install new system. I can also use the PKALL I already have for this install and hook in D2D eliminating the 555F

Is it worth it to change over or just let it be and have just working alarm part for now and look for something else.

Change it.

-------------
Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

howie ll wrote:

Change it.

Thanks Howie 11 and I may just do that. I may have a question or two on swapping over relay banks but pretty sure from playing with this one now I can swap it out.

Thanks for all the help above even as frustrating as it got on both sides by page 8.

howie ll wrote:

Change it.

I started the swap over today and have all the alarm side components swapped and wired in and am down to the the PKALL and Relay side questions.

My truck had 7 relays running before that are all taken out with the install of this new system. This is how they had it installed.

Old system had relay banks of
1=Primary Ignition -------connects to Dark Blue/Light green + IGN
2=Secondary Ignition------connects to RED / Black + IGN
3=Accessory Relay---------connects to Gray / YELLOW ---Fan
4=Starter Relay-----------connects to starter RED / Light Blue
5=3rd Ignition Relay------connects to Blue/Pink trace wire?
6=Additional Accessory Relay--connects to BLACK/ Light Green Radio
7= Starter Kill/Anti Grind--connects to starter RED / Black also

New Avital System has the DEI XCRS 500M I'm hooking up as follows
2 Reds each to 12V Positive --------------Light GREEN/ Blue
RED / White------------------------------------Yellow
Purple---------------------------------------RED / Light blue starter
Green----------------------------------------RED / Light Blue Starter
Pink--Ign 1----------------------------------Dark Blue/Light Green
Pink/White Ign 2-----------------------------RED / Black
Orange--Acc Heater Blower-------------------Gray / YELLOW

So if I want Anti Grind I will need to add Relay into Starter circuit lines and can tap that in easily using the Orange ground when armed output from other harness as trigger

I can add a relay for the secondary accessory Radio circuit although not sure if needed. I can use the orange trigger from ribbon to 500m for trigger and feed the BLACK/ Light green in harness

**I can not figure out what the other relay fed with the Blue with pink tracer wire in ignition harness. It was triggered off the First/ Second Ignition relay in 554 so could I use the 200ma programmable trigger off the 5303 line to feed this?
Not sure if I can feed off the ribbon cable going to the 500M to trigger? I can get power for bot additional relays above off the yellow 12+ wire in harness.

If above is wrong please feel free to correct me in any way.

Also on the PKAll I can use the D2D for connection to alarm but have questions on it.

I have TX and RX wires already but want to be sure what to tap the rest into to be sure.
Not sure which Pink to ignition source or which blue/white to - when running source is best for this.

Thanks for any help guys.I was able to test the rest and get it all in but not sure if these additional relays besides starter grind are necessary but cant even find the color code for the blue with pink line one feeds.

I was able to add in a dome light output relay in the system so it now powers interior lights with alarm off/on off the dome light output of alarm. Didn't have that before.

Ok, I found out what the blue/pink wire is in harness. Its the lt. blue/pink (with rear wheel ABS only) Why would the ABS need to be tapped into or is it to keep fault codes from resulting?
Bulldog site has it labeled as second ignition so I guess I will need the additional relays for this as mentioned.

Is the ribbon cable to DEI XCRS 500M sufficient to tap into for trigger lines for relays or am I asking for trouble? Any better method?

Starter Kill/Anti-Grind is built-in to the XCRS.

Never tap into the ribbon cable between module and satellite relay pack, the XCRS should have a connector devoted to the connection of additional relays.

For the PKALL, the ignition source is the same as Ignition 1 (DB/LG). For (-) when running, you can use H3/5 Blue/White or the blue status on the auxiliary connector of the XCRS.

catback wrote:

Starter Kill/Anti-Grind is built-in to the XCRS.

Never tap into the ribbon cable between module and satellite relay pack, the XCRS should have a connector devoted to the connection of additional relays.

For the PKALL, the ignition source is the same as Ignition 1 (DB/LG). For (-) when running, you can use H3/5 Blue/White or the blue status on the auxiliary connector of the XCRS.

Thanks for the reply and I actually got it figured out much later night and wanted to edit post but not allowed. On a second look of feed wires I passed over that the satellite relay pack had the secondary 4 wire feed coming off it for additional Ignition, Accessory, Starter and status outputs. I was mainly focused on the main brain box feeds and admittedly missed this until I looked at ALL supplied harness wires again. Got the lines soldered to leeds to the 2 relays and they are ready to go in today.

The PKALL I was mainly wondering best feed for the (-) when running line and was pretty sure on the ignition one.

Thanks for verifying and the info and hopefully will have this in today. Just need to power up these relays above and the one for dome light supervision and then get all of it cleaned up and tacked up.

Thanks again and glad to have a remote start system installed/working again.

Alarm part works great and locks/unlocks and glass and dual stage detectors work as well as siren chirps and light flash

Well got it all wired in and set the PKALL up and when got to remote start activate it just rang the remote with the icon and remote start safety shutdown icon flashing.

I have all the relays wired as such

New Avital System has the DEI XCRS 500M I'm hooking up as follows
2 Reds each to 12V Positive --------------Light GREEN/ Blue
RED / White------------------------------------Yellow
Purple-STARTER SIDE---------------------------RED / Light blue starter
Green--KEY SIDE-------------------------------RED / Light Blue Starter
Pink--Ign 1----------------------------------Dark Blue/Light Green
Pink/White Ign 2-----------------------------RED / Black
Orange--Acc Heater Blower-------------------Gray / YELLOW

I wired the aux relays as follows.

4 Pin lead off the DEI XCRS 500M

1st Relay
Used the Orange (-) 200ma 2nd accessory to relay 85
Constant 12v to 86 and 87
Orange out 30pin to Accessory 2 line BLACK/ Lt Green

2nd Relay
Used the pink (-)200ma 3rd ignition output to 85
Constant 12V to 86 and 87
Pink/White out 30 pin to Ignition 3 Lt Blue/Pink. This is the with rear ABS line only.

These secondary relays here were hooked up in last system so I transferred to here and found note that some model F150 need them powered. I tried without powered and same result.

Brake switch lines are hooked up and no hood switch hooked up or kill switch put in line. Both are terminated at the moment with no ground possibilities. I have checked all power lines coming in and they test voltage as well as making sure all grounds are good. The Neutral safety line was not used before in old systems so not used in this system as that or kill switch.

Any suggestions on what to look for that would cause a safety shutdown. All the alarm parts of system work fine but its just the remote start side not responding.

Ground the neutral safety line.
Is the kill switch on a separate plug? If so plug in and turn on.

-------------
Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

howie ll wrote:

Ground the neutral safety line.
Is the kill switch on a separate plug? If so plug in and turn on.

I grounded out the Neutral safety line and truck tried to remote start this time turning over instantly.
I do not have the kill switch installed in the system. The old one didn't so I didn't on this one. I probably should for safety reasons since I just had major motor work done.

Truck would not start although it turned over. Placed key in the ignition and tried RS and it fired right up. Started with key and did valet takeover so no issues. I may just have to keep playing with the PKALL to get activated so it stores the key code.
Old system needed every key I had when programing Pats bypass and this one say it only needs 1 to program?

Thanks for the help Howie II and I almost have it done and much better knowledge with this stuff now.

Thanks again for all the help.

Success and another question.

The PKALL programing got done and system remotes starts fine now. Alarm turns on/off and arms and light flashes with chirps. Only problem is if system is armed and I remote start it triggers the alarm right away. It didn't do this on the old system and not sure if its the dual stage or canopy glass break or current draw setting it off now. Any hints on what to look at?

What sensors do you have and where are they connected?

Factory alarm?

Does the truck run (remote start) with the alarm going off or does the alarm going off stop remote start dead in it's tracks?

What zone does the alarm indicate as being violated?

catback wrote:

What sensors do you have and where are they connected?

Factory alarm?

Does the truck run (remote start) with the alarm going off or does the alarm going off stop remote start dead in it's tracks?

What zone does the alarm indicate as being violated?

*-Its running the dual stage sensor in the front that came with the system

*-I have a ARE Z series cover on the back of the truck. Lots of glass so they had installed a glass break/ sound sensor in the back with old system. It has a box with a small mic on a short cable. It has lines that run to the front of the truck and tied into + constant power on red line and then the blue to the blue (-) Multiplexed Input Zone 4 output H1/6 and black to ground. I tied it into new system the exact same way.

*-No factory alarm system installed. I`m the only owner and bought on order and didn't have the silver or gold series systems installed when purchased.

*-The truck WILL remote start with the alarm going off. Its the remote start activation that starts the alarm siren going off

*- System disarms with 4 chirps and remote is showing trunk lid area. I believe it may be the zone 4 sensor for canopy glass break.

*- I have noticed that under disarmed status that the led flashes a slow constant pattern. Its one flash every 2 seconds until I put key in ignition and clear.

mike leiter wrote:

catback wrote:

What sensors do you have and where are they connected?

Factory alarm?

Does the truck run (remote start) with the alarm going off or does the alarm going off stop remote start dead in it's tracks?

What zone does the alarm indicate as being violated?

*-Its running the dual stage sensor in the front that came with the system

*-I have a ARE Z series cover on the back of the truck. Lots of glass so they had installed a glass break/ sound sensor in the back with old system. It has a box with a small mic on a short cable. It has lines that run to the front of the truck and tied into + constant power on red line and then the blue to the blue (-) Multiplexed Input Zone 4 output H1/6 and black to ground. I tied it into new system the exact same way.

*-No factory alarm system installed. I`m the only owner and bought on order and didn't have the silver or gold series systems installed when purchased.

*-The truck WILL remote start with the alarm going off. Its the remote start activation that starts the alarm siren going off

*- System disarms with 4 chirps and remote is showing trunk lid area. I believe it may be the zone 4 sensor for canopy glass break.

*- I have noticed that under disarmed status that the led flashes a slow constant pattern. Its one flash every 2 seconds until I put key in ignition and clear.

Canopy has quick disconnects for anything that runs into it for easy removal. There are ones for the 3rd brake light, canopy interior light, power lock on rear glass and the Glass break detector.

I disconnected the rear glass break from alarm side and locked and remote started the alarm and no trigger of siren this time. So its definitely the glass break detector and how it must be installed in this system

Upon more research it is a older style clear box early version DEI 506T.
The new versions of the 506T show when wired like I have to a instant trigger input need a 1-amp diode 1N4004 on the line heading towards the Glass break. My wiring does not have it wired with one in line and may not have been required with the older version?

So should update with diode or rewire in line with the interior sensor?
I see a option for adding a 506T to a DEI system with a shock sensor port and an on-board shock sensor. Option 2 on page
506T

I would rewire it to the shock sensor but first verify the shock sensor can not set off the alarm during a remote start. Just putting a diode won't change anything if the 506T is triggering. Have to either use a sensor port that the 5303 ignores during a remote start or otherwise bypass the sensor during a remote start.

catback wrote:

I would rewire it to the shock sensor but first verify the shock sensor can not set off the alarm during a remote start. Just putting a diode won't change anything if the 506T is triggering. Have to either use a sensor port that the 5303 ignores during a remote start or otherwise bypass the sensor during a remote start.

My alarm states that off the Shock sensor port the blue and green wires will both report zone two if triggered.
DEI 506T directions is showing alarm system that reports zones 2 and 4 off these wires or on board shock sensor from further look for rewiring.

*Adding a 506T to a DEI system that has an external shock sensor and reports separate zones on the shock sensor port

OR

Adding a 506T to a DEI system with a shock sensor port and an on-board shock sensor

So rewiring would still report both as zone 2 on my system then? I'm fine with that as long as they both set alarm off on that incident.

Currently alarm does not trigger on remote start with the Double Guard Stinger Shock Sensor. Its set pretty sensitive too and I can kick running boards and tires that usually set it off when not RS running and just armed.

Yes, you can wire it to the shock sensor port and just have both triggering zone 2. Just be aware that your canopy will be unprotected for the entire remote start duration or whenever the shock sensor is ignoRED / bypassed.

catback wrote:

Yes, you can wire it to the shock sensor port and just have both triggering zone 2. Just be aware that your canopy will be unprotected for the entire remote start duration or whenever the shock sensor is ignoRED / bypassed.

Thanks again and I1ll think about it more over the weekend and see what way I need to go. Have to leave for DC in a few hours so cant mess with anymore till Tues.

At least I will have 90% of it done and worked out now and appreciate all the help with old system and the swap over to new one.

Have a question on this rear glass break sensor. Looking at the old Viper 554R I had before.
This 506T sensor was connected via the constant pos + wire to sensor red, blue to the blue (-) Multiplexed Input Zone 4 output H1/6 and black to ground.
Never had a issue with alarm sounding on RS

The Avital 5303 was installed the exact same way on same exact wires constant pos + wire to sensor red, blue to the blue (-) Multiplexed Input Zone 4 output H1/6 and black to ground.

Why would 5303 system trigger this zone 4 while 554R will not under same wiring. The two systems were pretty much wire for wire swap except for the relay ribbon cables which design change made for wiring changes.

I dont mind losing arming for this zone as mentioned on rewire above on RS but would like to keep if at all possible. Just dont know why one would trigger and the other wouldn't.

I do have more wire coming this week as well as a few diodes in case I need to do some adjusting.