2002 bmw x5 no doorlock after rs

We encountered an issue today while installing a RS in a 2002 BMW X5.

RS: Compustar CM7200 Brain With 2WG9SP Remotes
Unlock before start,lock after start has been programmed

Bypass: DEI 556U Key In Box (Factory Windings)-Using Grey Valet Key

Everything works fine except once the engine is running the door locks do NOT function. They work until the engine is running then for some reason the door lock cylinder is immobilized. I am grabbing the ARM and DISARM wire at the Drivers Door Module in the Door. We used Blue/Red & White /Black. Is there a work around that will allow the disarm and unlock before start, as well as re-lock after start to function while the engine is running. We currently get nothing from either wire once the engine is running. We have considered using the button on the console, but are hesitant due to the nature of the flip flop-We see conflict there. Has anyone ever seen this. Can anyone offer advice?

Customer would like the alarm disarmed prior to start, the doors to be re-locked upon start, and the option to unlock the door after the engine has been started with the aftermarket remotes.

Thanks in advance, Chris

Probably a failed door module at that age. The last one I did, I ended up at the console switch.
Your wiring colours are correct.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

howie ll wrote:

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Probably a failed door module at that age. The last one I did, I ended up at the console switch.
Your wiring colours are correct.

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I think it's likely functioning as designed much in the same way a host of cars with factory fobs that don't work once the car is started/key in ignition.

No sir, using the valet key should remove that function. Quick test, lock from driver's door with key and hold it in the lock position. If the windows/roof don't close then the door module is faulty.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

howie ll wrote:

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No sir, using the valet key should remove that function. Quick test, lock from driver's door with key and hold it in the lock position. If the windows/roof don't close then the door module is faulty.

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WITH the car running...I don't see OEM logic in ensuring to allow such things from the outside when logically the driver is inside the car presumably with the key. I don't play with a host of BMW's of all eras and packages but something tells me the logic of disarming the factory alarm on a running vehicle (not equipped with factory remote start) is illogical. That and that if it were broken then it would be broken and not work regardless of if the car is running or not.

We tested the functionality of the door lock cylinder from the outside. When the engine is off and the car is on standby. The factory key fob works fine-lock,unlock,trunk. When the engine is running nothing from the key fob works. Which we would expect for obvious reasons.

When the engine is off and the car is on standby. The key in the door turned to the lock position locks all doors like you would expect. The key in the door turned to the unlock position unlocks all doors like you would expect. The keys in the door HELD to either position rolls all windows either up or down based on whether it is being turned to lock or unlock. When the engine is running nothing from the key in the door works. Which we would expect for the SAME obvious reasons.

I get all of that. My question is: Has anyone ever seem this before and if so how they overcame it. My dilemma with using the console button (Yellow/Red) is that it flip flops.

That wire is a flip flop, how do you address the fact that the door locks wont respond in sync with the button presses on the aftermarket remote. You hit lock or unlock and it responds based on what the last command was. For example if the doors are unlocked you can hit either lock or unlock on the aftermarket remotes and the vehicle will lock. Now the customer has to remember what the position of the vehicles door locks are every time. Now say the doors are locked. The customer hits lock or unlock on the aftermarket remote and the door unlock based on the premise that they were locked prior. How can a customer be expected to remember whether it was locked or unlocked a day before. This is not even mentioning the fact we would like it to unlock and re-lock after start. The sync is bound to be off at some point in operation. Advice?

You either design a state monitoring circuit that monitors lock state or you can 5 wire the lock motor.

I don't think the state being out of sync is a big issue if your only utilizing central lock button once remote started. Factory disarm will unlock, the RS will lock after startup, the owner will unlock to get in. Locking after pit-stopping and getting out is where I just don't know how that'd go.

Is there a key sense wire on US versions?

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Howie- I read a thread about one of the ignitions acting as a key sense. In that particular thread he had mentioned using a pulse timer and a relay to engage the ignition for start then break the circuit for the lock command then re-energizing for the remaining start sequence. That option sounded like a check engine light waiting to happen. I opted against it.

Catback- The 5 wire on the door lock motor is looking like a viable option at this point. If I chose that option could I wire one door and assume all other motors would follow suit or will we have to 5 wire all doors for all doors to lock or unlock? One last side question, lets assume I chose the central door lock to operate some of the funtions, how would I differentiate the circuits with the remote start. Do I use arm and disarm while the engine is off then use a possible second set from the CM7200 to operate the central lock while its running (say rearm and another programmable circuit from the brain. How do you see that playing out in your head. My hesitation comes from the fact that our remote has a separate lock and unlock button on the aftermarket remote. The customer could hit lock or unlock and get the opposite result at any time within the vehicle. I'm just trying to entertain all options. Many thanks.

Hi,
The keysense is part of the EWS immobilizer system. Are you referring to this post? https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=68414. You can test the keysense issue assuming you have two keys...leave one in the ignition cylinder (valet key perhaps) and try using the other, either manually or via remote.
Mark

Does the flip flop situation matter here if the doors are automatically unlocked when the car is remote started? When the doors are unlocked and the center console button is pressed, the doors lock. I just walked out to my 2006 x5 and whenever it is unlocked and the center console button is pressed, the doors lock. You never have to press twice to lock like if it were out of sync. Am I missing something here?

My mistake, it seems you are not trying to lock the doors after remote start. You are trying to get the remote starter key fob to unlock and lock the doors when it is remote started. Am I right? Is it possible you wire the remote starter's "arm after start" wire to the center console, and then use the remote starter's lock wire to the power door lock. Only with the engine off, the door locks would work correctly? With the engine on, the doors would remain locked. There wouldn't be any way to accidentally unlock them?

Not sure about any of this. Just thinking about it because I am going to install a remote starter on my 06 x5 before winter

Kevin- What you described with the arm after start will work. However my dilemma NOW becomes after it is started AND locked with the rearm wire. How does the customer unlock the door when they approach it to enter? This is my rock and a hard place. If you can answer that all of my problems go away! LOL. Let me know.

Ween- Yes this was the post I referred to earlier in my post. After re-visiting your post I realized why I quickly excluded it as option. I couldn't review the link posted in it. If you had access to it I would certainly consider it as an option. A diagram possibly? I do have pulse timers in the shop. Thank you for your reply. Appreciate all the feedback.

Chris- I understand exactly what you mean now. I would be extremely interested in hearing how to solve this problem. Though I don't know much about the 5 wire technique mentioned earlier, it seems like a full proof plan now that I have researched it. Your question about if you need to connect to both driver and passenger doorlocks remains unanswered. The 5 wire technique seems to require quite a bit of work too.
I was thinking about this earlier and wondered what exactly happens when the engine is running to make the door locks not work. It seems to me like something would be "cut out" when the engine is running, either the door lock motor's power or ground. If you could figure out which one was cut out, maybe the remote starter could supply either when the car is remote started. What are your thoughts on this?

Is auto lock programmed in? If so disengage it.


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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Howie- The current status of the Remote start is unlock before start and re-lock after start. Issue: door unlocks and cant re-lock. I know what your thinking "easy" turn the unlock before start off and the doors will remain locked. That is great except that the whole issue is I get no functionality lock OR unlock. So regardless of whether the doors are locked or unlocked after start my dilemma remains the same I cannot CURRENTLY lock or unlock after the engine has started. I was hoping someone might have encountered this and could offer their personal experience.

I have tried both methods for example:

Method 1: doors unlock, vehicle starts, doors remain unlocked. customers vehicle is unprotected!

Method 2: doors remain locked, vehicle starts, doors remain locked, customer cannot enter the vehicle unless they turn the key in the door and manually unlock it like a cave man. Either method seems to be flawed!

I fear having to drill an even bigger hole through the plastic door boot to accommodate 4-5 wires to use the 5 wire method on the driver side door lock motor. You know what I mean, if you've done one. Please tell me there is a better solution.

Ween- Do you have the diagram from the original thread you posted earlier? I would like to check it out. When I click the link Direct Techs asks for a password. I have no Login, I typically use ADS modules.
I do have access to:

Computech 3.0
Installogy
Code Systems
All Data and Mitchell
Thanks

I'll have to look at notes, etc. It was only nine years ago, did a few X5's back then.

I don't know the answer but surely the locks are controlled from inside the car at a guess look for blue and white in the driver door loom.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

More blue sky thinking. Is there an ignition + at the door module?
Could we use this to overcome no unlock by relaying via status wire?
My car uses a mixture of 98-05 BMW Z4 and 5/X5 wiring and it certainly unlocks during R/S.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Good idea, Hadn't thought of that. I will check that out early next week when it returns. I'll keep you posted.

I'm trying to follow along here. Are you guys thinking that the ignition + wire is what controls the door locks working or not? And controlling it with a relay and the status wire can bypass its control of the door locks?

Yes

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Also, I would be willing to test certain wires etc. for you on my car. Let me know if I can help.

My thinking is that there's an ignition standoff somewhere. Never had this problem on the 20 or so 98-05 X5's that I've done myself so I'm also struggling with this.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

And using the valet key in the bypass doesn't solve the problem right?

Also, I have the Bentley Manual for the X5 with all the wiring diagrams. I'll look around in there and see what I find.

https://www.scribd.com/doc/238805898/Bmw-Locks-008
Check out the locking description and wiring diagrams I uploaded from my Bentley Manual. Notice on page 515-6 the descriptions of the single and double lock motors. It tells you how the doors can and can't be unlocked when locked either with the central switch or by remote.
As for the wiring diagrams, I am still trying to figure something out. I do see the BL/RT (blue red) and WS/SW (white black) wires.

Kevin I discovered about 10 years ago on an E46 Cabriolet that if you DON'T use the valet (as key in a box) that's when your lock unlock troubles start!

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Just looked at the diagrams, use a link to disarm aux from the alarm via a relay (5 wire) to either black, blue or white going into the driver's door test which unlocks, of those three and that's the one to unlock when you turn off the alarm (with R/S) operating when you approach the vehicle. If taken from the central module, it will unlock all the doors, if taken from driver door loom, kick panel it will give you priority driver door unlock.


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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

This seems like it will work. This will only be a solution to unlocking the doors when remote started using the remote starter's remote, correct? Therefore a remote starter with a remote without lock/unlock will not work here? I wonder if there is a solution where the factory key fob can be used.

No idea, never had this problem with a BMW before except an early battered X5 where the door module was faulty.
Actually you could run with this method to give you priority unlock on any BMW 98-05.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

I was able to use multiple suggestions to come up with a solution. Here is what I ended up doing. I used a combination of multiple ideas. This was the one that I thought was the easiest. I used the remote start to unlock and disarm the vehicle before starting using the arm and disarm in the door. This helped provide synchronization. Once the vehicle was remote started, I used a relay on an extra ignition output on the remote starter to trigger the button on the console. This only operated while the engine was running. I then programmed lock after start. Which keeps the vehicle protected. This also set up the correct sync so when the customer walks up to the vehicle it will be ready to unlock. I had to tie lock and unlock together on the console switch as it is a flip flop. This is why the sync is important. If the customer doesn't hit either lock or unlock twice in a row the sync is always right on. Once I shut the vehicle down we went back to using arm and disarm at the driver door. Thus keeping all features. Possible solution for anyone with the same issue. It worked out great for our shop!

i have a few questions:
if only adding a single button remote starter, will ignition and transponder disarm fact alarm before remote start like tech files claim?

once remote started, if customer shuts off starter while approaching vehicle via remote, will factory remote unlock car without any issue?

im looking for a "less expensive" solution for these vehicles....

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Mike Battaglia
Specialized Car Audio
Bensenville IL 60106