viper 5706v problem/
Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Security and Convenience
Forum Discription: Car Alarms, Keyless Entries, Remote Starters, Immobilizer Bypasses, Sensors, Door Locks, Window Modules, Heated Mirrors, Heated Seats, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=137507
Printed Date: April 27, 2024 at 5:36 PM
Topic: viper 5706v problem/
Posted By: linville78
Subject: viper 5706v problem/
Date Posted: October 22, 2014 at 5:09 PM
I'm working on a 2015 Explorer police interceptor. There is no factory alarm or chip key.
I have gone through the forums and from what I've seen I connected the 10 pin connector wires correctly.
I have not tried to use the remote start yet because I have not been able to get into programming mode to change to automatic. Which most likely has something to do with my issue.
My problem is that when I put the key in and turn it to the RUN position the starter engages. If I disconnect the pink wire the symptom is gone.
10 Pin Connector:
RED / black B+
RED / white B+
red B+
green key side of Blue/white start wire at ignition switch
violet starter side of blue/white wire at ignition switch
(I do have a starter kill relay)
orange PURPLE / green at ignition switch
pink WHITE/ orange wire at ignition switch
Replies:
Posted By: kreg357
Date Posted: October 22, 2014 at 7:51 PM
Strange problem. I'm assuming every thing was OK with a regular key start prior to the 5706 install. That really shouldn't happen. The 5706 should not interfere with any normal operation, like a regular key start-up. The wiring looks correct but...
The "Starter Kill" function is done by the Viper internally using the Green and Purple wires to the cut vehicle Blue/White Starter wire. You mentioned that you have a starter kill relay. Is this an external extra relay you added? If yes, that is probably where your problem is. Miss wiring that external relay could cause this issue.
If no external "Starter Kill" relay, then your Viper is very sick. ------------- Soldering is fun!
Posted By: Ohmz
Date Posted: October 22, 2014 at 8:00 PM
That starter kill relay sounds like the problem especially if you tied it in with that pink wire.
Posted By: linville78
Date Posted: October 22, 2014 at 11:46 PM
Thank you, It WAS my external relay. I didn't realize it had it's own internal starter kill.
Posted By: howie ll
Date Posted: October 23, 2014 at 1:12 AM
Note: "Unable to get into programming".
The 6 models with the new antennas and remotes are having problems with pin alignment already come up on another post today.
My colleague who installs about 10 per week had problems with that issue.
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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.
Posted By: linville78
Date Posted: October 23, 2014 at 2:05 AM
Thanks for the tip Howie. I did notice those tiny pins and took great care pushing in the connector.
By the way once I removed the external relay I was able to get into programming without a problem and all is well.
The last time I installed an alarm/remote start was about 14 years ago
I see nothing has changed with DEI's confusing circuit names and
nonexistent customer service for those of us who are not dealers.
I'm glad I found this site.
Thanks again.
Posted By: howie ll
Date Posted: October 23, 2014 at 2:21 AM
What do you think it's like this side of the pond?
Thank goodness I'm still friendly with their former technical manager.
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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.
Posted By: Ohmz
Date Posted: October 23, 2014 at 7:55 AM
Another thing I noticed with the few that I've installed is that the 2way remote doesn't respond sometimes. It might indicate unlock on the remote but it was in fact locked using the remote. I reset the brain and all works well again. Just a note incase you run into this issue later.
Posted By: howie ll
Date Posted: October 23, 2014 at 8:01 AM
Thanks I believe they're addressing those problems and that's the version we'll be getting for Europe next year.
856 instead of 900 mhz.
-------------
Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.
Posted By: linville78
Date Posted: October 23, 2014 at 11:24 AM
Another thing that I had an issue with before I realized I did not need the external starter kill relay was that the orange (-)500mA ground when armed output wire would ground when armed and ground when trying to remote start. If the unit DID need an external start kill relay wouldn't that defeat the purpose? If the normally closed relay is energized while trying to remote start then the starting circuit opens.
Posted By: howie ll
Date Posted: October 23, 2014 at 12:29 PM
The relay used is a 5 pin changeover. The starter leads go to the common and NC (30 and 87a).
If the ignition is hot wired when armed, 86 gets ignition and 85 gets the orange GWA thus operating the relay and disconnecting the starter wire.
That's exactly how the internal relay on the Viper is wired.
-------------
Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.
Posted By: linville78
Date Posted: October 23, 2014 at 12:42 PM
Right, I understand how it is supposed to work. What I'm saying is hypothetically IF it needed the external start kill relay and the orange 500 mA ground armed output is providing a ground to 85 while it is trying to remote start then there is something internally wrong with the module no?
Posted By: linville78
Date Posted: October 23, 2014 at 12:46 PM
What may be confusing me here is pin 86. Is there power on pin 86 when the unit is remote starting? If not then I understand what my confusion is.
Posted By: howie ll
Date Posted: October 23, 2014 at 12:46 PM
No, Viper doesn't use the GWA wire in that mode.
It internally supplies power to 87 enabling the violet wire.
Imagine a live during crank wire going to 87 on the relay diagram you just supplied on another post.
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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.
Posted By: howie ll
Date Posted: October 23, 2014 at 12:47 PM
Ignition power to 86 during remote start.
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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.
Posted By: linville78
Date Posted: October 23, 2014 at 12:59 PM
So then even though I'm now NOT using the GWA wire, my module must be defective if it is using the GWA in the remote start mode.
Thanks for replies. I'm just trying to understand it a little better.
Posted By: linville78
Date Posted: October 23, 2014 at 1:45 PM
howie ll wrote:
No, Viper doesn't use the GWA wire in that mode.
It internally supplies power to 87 enabling the violet wire.
Imagine a live during crank wire going to 87 on the relay diagram you just supplied on another post.
Do you mean 87a on that diagram? because in that diagram 87 has no continuity to the starting circuit unless the relay is energized.
Posted By: howie ll
Date Posted: October 23, 2014 at 4:40 PM
No I said 87
"because in that diagram 87 has no continuity to the starting circuit unless the relay is energized.".
Exactly and with the alarm and ignition on during a remote start 87 and 30 become continuous.
Please do some basic studies on relays
Here's a start:-
https://www.bcae1.com/relays.htm
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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.
Posted By: linville78
Date Posted: October 23, 2014 at 4:51 PM
It was how the module uses that circuit I was confused on not how the relay works, but I'll take your advice a little refresher course never hurt anyone.
Thanks again
Posted By: catback
Date Posted: October 24, 2014 at 9:20 AM
howie ll wrote:
No, Viper doesn't use the GWA wire in that mode.
It internally supplies power to 87 enabling the violet wire.
Imagine a live during crank wire going to 87 on the relay diagram you just supplied on another post.
So if I disable anti-grind the remote start won't work?
linville78 wrote:
It was how the module uses that circuit I was confused on not how the relay works, but I'll take your advice a little refresher course never hurt anyone.
Thanks again
The simple way to think of it is the module powers the starter downstream of the starter kill so it doesn't matter if the starter kill has cut the connection between key and starter. The purpose of activating the starter kill during remote start is obviously anti-grind protection during take-over.
Posted By: mjkraffert
Date Posted: December 28, 2014 at 1:28 PM
howie II - THANKS!! I spent hours re-verifying my wiring because I couldn't get into programming mode. I read your post, checked the pins on my control center button, and found a bent pin. Straightened it and everything works fine now. Thank you again!!
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