viper 5204x w/remote st

I've benn working on installing a Viper 5204x Remote Start Alarm into my 2002 Trans Am WS6 M6. I've got everything hooked up and almost everything working except the defrost and remote start. (Having trouble finding the correct "GREY" wire to tie into.)

I'm having trouble with the remote start. I would really appreciate any help with it!

This is what I've got. Let me know what you think, please.

Remote Start, (H3) 10-pin connector

    H3/1 PINK (+) IGNITION 1 INPUT/OUTPUT
        Key Cylinder Option
connect to the Pink wire coming off the key cylinder
(thicker gauge shows 12v only when key is at the run position right before crank)
    H3/2 RED / WHITE (87) FLEX RELAY +12V INPUT (30A FUSED)
        Attach to H3/6
    H3/3 ORANGE (+) ACCESSORY OUTPUT
        ORANGE wire off of ignition switch
        Test: shows 12V when ignition switch is turned to run, 0V at Off and ACC
    H3/4 VIOLET (+) STARTER OUTPUT (CAR SIDE OF THE STARTER KILL)
        See H3/5
    H3/5 GREEN (+) STARTER INPUT (KEY SIDE OF THE STARTER KILL)
        starter kill relay you take the starter wire on the car Yellow wire and cut the wire in half one end goes to the green wire the other to the black wire. (Green and Black Wire Thicker)
(thicker gauge coming off key cylinder)
(there may what looks like a yellow wire but it may not be it may be a yellow shield with multiple wires inside DO NOT TOUCH THIS IS AND AIRBAG WIRE. also yellow plugs are airbag wires too!!!)
    H3/6 RED IGNITION 1 +12V INPUT (30A FUSED)
        It is best to get ignition power from the fuse panel. There are ports there specifically designed by GM for adding accessories. They are labeled BATT, ACCY, and IGN. The IGN port is the one you want for this purpose.
Look for Yellow wire
??? Or should this be for H3/1 ???
        connects to the red wire coming off the key cylinder
(thicker wire that always will show 12v)
    H3/7 PINK/WHITE (30) FLEX RELAY OUTPUT (car side of ign, acc or starter wire)
    H3/8 PINK/BLACK (87a) FLEX RELAY INPUT (key side of ign, acc or starter wire if needed)
    H3/9 RED / BLACK ACCESSORY/STARTER RELAY +12V INPUT (30A FUSED)
        Attach to H3/6
    H3/10 NC No Connection

Main Harness (H1), 6-pin connector
H1/1 RED (+)12VDC CONSTANT INPUT
Backside of the fuse box open slot
Look for orange wire (BATT)
25AMP Fuse
H1/2 BLACK (-) CHASSIS GROUND
put a ring terminal on and attach to a factory bolt attached to a good amount of metal
Passenger side next to door
H1/3 BROWN (+) SIREN OUTPUT
siren red wire already as stated will attach to the brown off the viper
black Siren wire will be grounded to another good metal point.
H1/4 WHITE/ BROWN PARKING LIGHT ISOLATION WIRE - PIN 87a of onboard relay
N/A
H1/5 WHITE PARKING LIGHT OUTPUT
Working behind the fuse box
Brown wire coming off the Headlight switch assembly
Use blue quick slice connector to switch into this brown
Light Flash Polarity
“Connection will be made to a positive 12V wire, so ensure your alarm’s output for this feature is also +12V”
This is where I set the alarm’s “LIGHT FLASH POLARITY” to positive.
“The internal fuse is used to determine the light flash output. In the (+) position, the onboard relay outputs (+)12V on the WHITE wire, H1/11. In the (-) position, the on-board relay will supply a (-) output. When wiring into a multiplex circuit, you can replace the fuse with a resistor (paying attention to the polarity setting). (Refer to diagram on p.16, H1/4 WHITE/ Brown wire description).”
Or at the BCM BLK/WHT wire in position C8 of blue connector: Parking light relay trigger (-) to Viper white wire (must change jumper for negative output)
H1/6 ORANGE (-) 500mA GROUND WHEN ARMED OUTPUT
BCM C11 YEL/BLK Starter Relay Control (Domestic)???Should bypass the clutch start switch???
Connect to Window Module H2/4 ORANGE

H2 Harness, 24-pin connector
H2/1 PINK/WHITE (-) 200mA IGNITION/FLEX RELAY CONTROL OUTPUT
H2/2 BLACK/ WHITE (-) NEUTRAL SAFETY INPUT
Chassis Ground
H2/3 BLUE/WHITE (-) 200mA 2ND STATUS /REAR DEFOGGER OUTPUT
Need a relay to operate the defrost/defogger
85 = 5204 Blue/White
86 & 87 = Fused 12V
30 = Defogger Gray
Rear Defrost ....... Gray (+) ......... At Rear Window Defogger Switch
H2/4 GREEN/ BLACK (-) 200mA OEM ALARM DISARM OUTPUT
N/A
H2/5 RED / WHITE (-) 200mA TRUNK RELEASE OUTPUT
Port 85 Trunk Pop Relay
H2/6 GREEN (-) DOOR TRIGGER INPUT (N/C* OR N/O)
USE DIODES Preventing a Current from traveling BACK to the BCM and you can bridge the three
BCM D11 GRY/BLK Driver Door Open Input
BCM D12 BLK/WHT Passenger DOI
BCM D1 White Courtesy Lamp Return
Check for – or + output
H2/7 BLACK / YELLOW (-) 200mA DOME LIGHT SUPERVISION OUTPUT
H2/8 BROWN / BLACK (-) 200mA HORN HONK OUTPUT
Horn Wire BCM C9 BLACK
H2/9 DARK BLUE (-) 200mA STATUS OUTPUT
Clutch Bypass Relay IF NEEDED
86 – H2/9 DARK BLUE (-)
85 – 12V Constant
87
30
Could possibly connect to BCM C11 YEL/BLK Starter Relay Control (Domestic)
H2/10 PINK (-) 200mA IGNITION 1 OUTPUT
H2/11 WHITE/ BLACK (-) 200mA AUX 3 OUTPUT
H2/12 VIOLET (+) DOOR TRIGGER INPUT
H2/13 WHITE/ VIOLET (-) 200mA AUX 1 OUTPUT
Window Module 535T-H2/3 RED / WHITE Wire
H2/14 VIOLET/BLACK (-) 200mA AUX 2 OUTPUT
H2/15 ORANGE / BLACK (-) 200mA AUX 4 OUTPUT
H2/16 BROWN (+) BRAKE SHUTDOWN INPUT
Brake position Switch
Light Blue Wire
Test will give +12V when brake is pressed.
Or Connect to Clutch Anticipation Switch
Grey (check to make sure wire gives 12V when grounded)
H2/17 GREY (-) HOOD PIN INPUT (N/C OR N/O)
Hood Pin Switch connection, if used.
H2/18 VIOLET / YELLOW (-) 200mA STARTER OUTPUT
N/A
H2/19 BLUE (-) TRUNK PIN/ INSTANT TRIGGER INPUT (N/C OR N/O)
Trunk Input
BCM D13 ORN/BLK Rear Compartment Lid Ajar Input
H2/20 GREY/BLACK (-) DIESEL WAIT TO START INPUT
N/A
H2/21 WHITE/ BLUE (-) REMOTE START/ TURBO TIMER ACTIVATION INPUT
N/A
H2/22 ORANGE (-) 200mA ACCESSORY OUTPUT
Use Diode to prevent current traveling back to VIPER MODULE. Relay will be used to wake up BCM for Door UnLOCK
BROWN wire at BCM Black Connector (D BRN Accessory Positive (+) V) Relay Time
30 – BRN off BCM
87 & 86 – 12v Constant
85 – H2/22 Orange (-)
H2/23 VIOLET/WHITE TACHOMETER INPUT
PCM Red Connector, Pin 10, White wire.
H2/24 GREEN / WHITE (-) 200mA OEM ALARM ARM OUTPUT
N/A
BCM C11 YEL/BLK Starter Relay Control (Domestic)???Should bypass the clutch start switch???

Anyone???

H3/1 PINK (+) IGNITION 1 INPUT/OUTPUT        Pink at Ignition Switch Harness
H3/2 RED / WHITE (87) FLEX RELAY +12V INPUT (30A FUSED)            Red at Ignition Switch Harness
H3/3 ORANGE (+) ACCESSORY OUTPUT        Orange at Ignition Switch Harness
H3/4 VIOLET (+) STARTER OUTPUT (CAR SIDE)     Cut wire       Yellow at Ignition Switch Harness
H3/5 GREEN (+) STARTER INPUT (KEY SIDE)              Yellow at Ignition Switch Harness
H3/6 RED IGNITION 1 +12V INPUT (30A FUSED)          Red at Ignition Switch Harness 
H3/7 PINK/WHITE (30) FLEX RELAY OUTPUT **set to ACC       Brown at Ignition Switch Harness
H3/8 PINK/BLACK (87a) FLEX RELAY INPUT    not used
H3/9 RED / BLACK ACC/STARTER RELAY +12V INPUT (30A FUSED)   Red at Ignition Switch Harness
H3/10 NC No Connection

The Red wire at the Ignition switch harness is rated at 50 Amps and it supplies all the power needed for the primary ignition
switch circuits.  Never did a 2002 TA, but on some GM vehicles there are multiple Red or a RED / White +12V constant wire at
the ignition switch harness.  Test to see if this is the case and split the Viper's load across the available wires.  Bottom line,
not a good idea to comblne multiple 30 Amp Viper wires and make one connection for a circuit that could draw 50 Amps.

H1/6 ORANGE (-) 500mA GROUND WHEN ARMED OUTPUT   This wire will show a (-) output only when the Viper is Armed.  Not
exactly what you need for a clutch bypass.  (-) Status Output is better.  Used for a window roll-up is the correct normal application.

H2/2 BLACK/ WHITE (-) NEUTRAL SAFETY INPUT      Chassis Ground      This wire should be connected to the EBrake wire.
While it won't stop the vehicle from moving if cranked while in gear, it is used for Reservation Mode.

H2/6 GREEN (-) DOOR TRIGGER INPUT (N/C* OR N/O)
USE DIODES Preventing a Current from traveling BACK to the BCM and you can bridge the three
BCM D11 GRY/BLK Driver Door Open Input
BCM D12 BLK/WHT Passenger DOI
BCM D1 White Courtesy Lamp Return
Only need to connect the two doors OR the Courtesy Lamp.

Can't help with the clutch bypass, can't find any info.  I would check the clutch pedal switch and use a DMM to find the interlock wires.

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Soldering is fun!

clutch bypass Dark Green (+) @ clutch switch. connect your start wire directly at the clutch

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Ted
2nd Year Tier 1 Medical School
Still installing as a hobby...pays for groceries
Compustar Expert

THANKS!!! I'm going to follow this advice. Just a couple of questions first.

kreg357 wrote:

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H3/7 PINK/WHITE (30) FLEX RELAY OUTPUT **set to ACC       Brown at Ignition Switch Harness

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The "**set to ACC", is this just pointing out this wire will power my accessories during remote start or do I need to do something additionally? i.e. somehow program my viper module to give this acc power, etc....

kreg357 wrote:

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H1/6 ORANGE (-) 500mA GROUND WHEN ARMED OUTPUT   This wire will show a (-) output only when the Viper is Armed. Not
exactly what you need for a clutch bypass. (-) Status Output is better. Used for a window roll-up is the correct normal application.

Can't help with the clutch bypass, can't find any info. I would check the clutch pedal switch and use a DMM to find the interlock wires.

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Using Status output there is an excellent suggestion, I should have already caught if I wasn't such a novice. haha

I'm hoping that connecting a ground signal to the BCM's starter relay control will prevent me from needing to connect a relay directly to the clutch start switch. Looking at my wiring diagrams, I think the clutch start switch only sends a ground signal to the BCM starter relay.

kreg357 wrote:

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H2/2 BLACK/ WHITE (-) NEUTRAL SAFETY INPUT      Chassis Ground      This wire should be connected to the EBrake wire.
While it won't stop the vehicle from moving if cranked while in gear, it is used for Reservation Mode.

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This is what I originally intended to do. The problem I ran into is that with my car the ground is cut when the e brake is pulled. So the function is the opposite of what the car is asking for.

tedmond wrote:

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clutch bypass Dark Green (+) @ clutch switch. connect your start wire directly at the clutch

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I'm sorry, but I don't understand this.

connect the purple start wire from the viper, to the dark green wire at the clutch. Usually the start wire is connected at the ignition(not this case)

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Ted
2nd Year Tier 1 Medical School
Still installing as a hobby...pays for groceries
Compustar Expert

tedmond wrote:

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connect the purple start wire from the viper, to the dark green wire at the clutch. Usually the start wire is connected at the ignition(not this case)

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So if I do this, then how does the PCM get the power it normally gets from the start wire during start?

power travels from the ignition, through the clutch to the starter relay. Instead you are directly powering the relay

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Ted
2nd Year Tier 1 Medical School
Still installing as a hobby...pays for groceries
Compustar Expert

He's right. The cluster won't see the crank signal if start is connected to the dk grn at the clutch switch. Does this matter? It doesn't look like the WS6 has a PCM crank signal. Only the 3.8 does.

[/IMG]

If the cluster doesn't see a start signal, but the car starts normally, PCM ECM will register a running car and no codes will be thrown. I don't see it as an issue.

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Ted
2nd Year Tier 1 Medical School
Still installing as a hobby...pays for groceries
Compustar Expert

tedmond wrote:

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If the cluster doesn't see a start signal, but the car starts normally, PCM ECM will register a running car and no codes will be thrown. I don't see it as an issue.

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I've connected the remote start as you've suggested and removed my clutch bypass relay.

Now I'm having a problem with the learn tach function, again.

A little back story, I had to pull the entire alarm/remote start out to hunt down a problem I was having. Ended up being a problem with a connection in my VATS Bypass.

Before I pulled out the Viper, I performed the Learn Tach function and it work without problem.

I've reinstalled it. Now it won't perform the Learn Tach function no matter how long I hold the control button????

I've checked my Tach signal from the t connector and I'm getting 5.xx Volts.

check to see if you might have accidentally bent any pins into the unit. you shouldn't need to program tach if you already programmed it the first tie.

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Ted
2nd Year Tier 1 Medical School
Still installing as a hobby...pays for groceries
Compustar Expert

tedmond wrote:

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check to see if you might have accidentally bent any pins into the unit. you shouldn't need to program tach if you already programmed it the first tie.

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I was wondering that. I was assuming that after an extended period of time without power the module would revert to default mode. So you're saying the first time I programmed it, it flashed the module?

If I don't need to reprogram the tach learn then I have another problem. I can't get the MTS remote start to engage when I'm shutting off the car.

Thanks!

if you cant enter reservation mode, its either 4 things. No tach signal, no door trigger, no ignition, no ebrake. Start checking those

any remote start diagnostics? Forget to ground the BLACK/ white neutral safety wire and plug in the switch?

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Ted
2nd Year Tier 1 Medical School
Still installing as a hobby...pays for groceries
Compustar Expert

tedmond wrote:

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if you cant enter reservation mode, its either 4 things. No tach signal, no door trigger, no ignition, no ebrake. Start checking those

any remote start diagnostics? Forget to ground the BLACK/ white neutral safety wire and plug in the switch?

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Yes on the remote start diagnosis. When trying to use the remote start I get the parking lights flash 7 times.
"7 flashes Timer mode/Turbo mode/Manual mode error *
*Manual mode error: MTS mode not enabled."

When installing the viper, I connected all the remote start (H3 harness)wires before connecting the harness to the module. Using my multimeter I insured I was getting proper signal from each wire at the correct phases.

I know the tach wire connection is giving signal to the wire. I also know the connection on the ebrake wire is giving a ground signal when the ebrake is engaged. I have the neutral safety switch attached here. I don't know the harness is getting the signal, but have no reason to think it's not.

I'll check the door triggers. I have a little bit of a complicated setup here connecting to both door triggers using diodes to insure one door doesn't trigger both indicators in the bcm. Each BCM wire connection got two 1 amp diodes. I know the connection for Viper wire was giving a signal albeit not a particularly strong signal.

H2/6 GREEN (-) DOOR TRIGGER INPUT (N/C* OR N/O)
USE DIODES Preventing a Current from traveling BACK to the BCM and you can bridge the three
BCM D11 GRY/BLK Driver Door Open Input
BCM D12 BLK/WHT Passenger DOI


Thank you very much for the help!

Sorry I didn't finish the following thought.

Using my multimeter I insured I was getting proper signal from each wire at the correct phases.

This was done at the harness that connects to the Viper module.

btw, the BLACK/ white is suppose to get the ground from the ebrake

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Ted
2nd Year Tier 1 Medical School
Still installing as a hobby...pays for groceries
Compustar Expert

tedmond wrote:

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btw, the BLACK/ white is suppose to get the ground from the ebrake

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Yes that's exactly what I used.

H2/2 BLACK/ WHITE (-) NEUTRAL SAFETY INPUT

you listed it as a chassis ground on your initial post.

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Ted
2nd Year Tier 1 Medical School
Still installing as a hobby...pays for groceries
Compustar Expert

tedmond wrote:

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you listed it as a chassis ground on your initial post.

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Oh yea sorry about that. I've made some changes since then. I still don't have enough posts to edit.