Kia Optima w/RFID push start and doors, Viper?

My Kia Optima has the RFID system that locks/unlocks the doors when you walk up to it and allows you to push-to-start the car without removing the keys from your pocket.

Thing is, I really like the Viper remote start keyfob with long range and LCD display to show current status.
Is there any way to integrate a Viper with my Kia so I can carry just the Viper fob and not lose the push button start and door unlock feature?

I'm willing to rip apart one Kia fob to obtain the RFID, wherever it may be.

2015 Kia Optima EX - stock system is what I have. Nothing aftermarket yet.

Yes, by adding a DB-ALL 2 to the Viper.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Sorry, you'll still need the RFID (proximity) key on your person. Leave it in the car and the doors will unlock.


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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

yes you will want to use a full featured bypass module such as the dball2 or idatalink. I know for sure the idatalink works great with this vehicle.

you will need to carry the viper and the factory key.

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Ted
2nd Year Tier 1 Medical School
Still installing as a hobby...pays for groceries
Compustar Expert

Thanks for the great responses! You've both given me some things to research.

Unfortunately though, the key does not seem to have the RFID. That appears to be inside the fob itself. I just tested. Took the key-only to the car and nothing happened.
Then I took the fob-only to the car and was able to unlock and start the car.

Ugh. :)

by factory key i meant the rfid tag aka remote/key.

Usually for RFID based cars, I suggest a long range 1 button to minimize bulky keys, however you're sold on the 2way lcd. Nothing wrong with that, just keep the viper/rfid on one keychain so you don't damage the lcd by accident.

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Ted
2nd Year Tier 1 Medical School
Still installing as a hobby...pays for groceries
Compustar Expert

Unlock the car then with the door open take the OEM key from the fob, leaving the fob 20 feet from the vehicle. Wait 2 minutes then try to start the vehicle with the key by having just the key in the vehicle.


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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

howie ll wrote:

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Unlock the car then with the door open take the OEM key from the fob, leaving the fob 20 feet from the vehicle. Wait 2 minutes then try to start the vehicle with the key by having just the key in the vehicle.

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Sorry, I'm back working on this project again now.
Yep, just did as you asked and the car would not start. The car actually told me to go get the key. lol
The key was inside the car and I left the fob 20+ feet. Followed your directions exactly.
I guess that confirms the RFID is in the fob. :(

Aww crud, my idea to harvest the RFID from the Kia keyfob to attach to a smaller housing on my keychain.... will not work.
Seems the car communicates with the RFID via LF communication and then the fob responds via UHF. So if I remove the RFID from the fob, it cannot respond to the car. It can only "hear" the car. :(


Info sourced from:
https://didriksen.im/2013/09/19/attacks-on-electronic-car-key-systems/

[quote]In a PKES system, the car key fob has an implemented low frequency (LF) RFID chip for short range communication, and an UHF transmitter/receiver for longer range communication. The car has a system for querying and reading the RFID chip, and this system including diversely placed antennas is used to detect where the key fob is located; inside or outside of the car [Francillon et al. 2010b].

If the key fob is not in near proximity of the car, typically maximum 1-2 meters away, remote open and close is allowed through the UHF channel. If the key fob is in a distance of 1-2 m from the door handle, automatic open and close is allowed. If the key fob is located inside the car, it is authorized to start the engine and the user is thereby able to use the car [Francillon et al. 2010b].

How the PKES system is implemented depends on the manufacturers, but they generally follow the same principles. The car sends beacons probing for a nearby key fob, either continuously or when the door handle is pulled. When the beacon is received by the key, it wakes up the microcontroller in the chip and interprets the signal received from the car. This signal is a cryptographic challenge which is solved by the microcontroller. When the challenge has been solved, the key replies its answer to the car through the UHF channel.[/quote]

Okay, I guess I have to lose my LCD and keep the stock Kia fob.
I now need to research which remote start alarm systems will let me control it via the Kia fob.

At least, thanks for the article link.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

It's surprising to me that Viper has not yet come out with a smart remote that can be cloned to a car manufacturers smart key.

They haven't even come out with any setup that could replace the smart key.
I would jump on the SmartStart but that requires $120/year subscription which doesn't fit me since I already pay $120/year to have my tablet in the car on 4G network.