passive starter kill with horn interupt

Hello,

New member and first time post so please excuse my naivety. I am working on a interrupt(starter) on 2001 accord. I copied the passive kill with horn interrupt diagram from this site. I substituted the flash to pass feature as my output. (not a wise decision btw). Anyway I have to starter kill side working ok ,but relay for lights is collapsing after start up. Looking at diagram i don't see how the component ie. horn, having motor side of starter deactivate the kill, would keep coil charged other than momentarily. I"m thinking of using tach wire to keep relay closed (coil charged) although haven't tested for polarity. I've spent hours looking through your forum and have picked up a ton of great info, but solution to this problem still is eluding me. I would appreciate some advise by the experts.   
 thx mao

The relays on the right are latches. With the IGN ON, when triggered, they latch ON, and the output is used to hold the relay to it's left ON until IGN is cycled OFF. The upper one is for the starter interrupt, and is 'set' by your trigger input, flash to pass.
The lower one is for the flash to pass relay which is set by a (+) pulse from the starter motor.

If the flash latch is "collapsing", and the circuit is properly wired, the IGN source for the flash latch may not be hot in start. But the startrer latch should fall out too.

Recheck your connections and configuration. It should work just fine with flash to pass as the Ghost Switch.

I know this circuit works. I've used it in about a dozen installations the past 4 years, with several, and numerous, variations and additions.

Hey davep, thanks for your reply. I was not aware the diode can hold coil closed even after anode side voltage is dropped. Now circuit makes sense. After rechecking my connections again i found an open on diode for trigger corrected the circuit and voila it works. This site rocks, I appreciate your quick response and detailed explanation. My excederin intake will be greatly reduced now ...... thx, ... mao

maoskeeter wrote:

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I was not aware the diode can hold coil closed even after anode side voltage is dropped.

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They don't. It's the latch relay on the right that holds both relay coils closed.
With IGN = ON, B+ is available at #30 on the right hand relay (latch).
When the trigger is applied through the diode, the RED circuit to both relays coils is ON.
By closing the latch relay contacts #30 and #87, RED will remain ON until IGN at 30 is removed.

The diodes keep the RED (latch) from back-feeding their respective trigger. Without the diodes push the horn, and the horn would remain on until IGN was turned OFF. The starter would stay engaged until the IGN was turned OFF.

Anyway, glad you got it working. Let your imagination run wild while browsing the relay diagrams. The stuff one can do using those is almost endless. I've done some cool things with those diagrams as the food for thought, then added and modified as needed to fit my desires for the system.

looks like i spoke too soon, to make my wiring more simple can i use blue and white feed wire to lighting relays, its constant hot , as a trigger . I am having challenges triggering after the relay. If so how would that circuit look.... ground trigger on holding relay from flash to pass?

Let me correct myself i'm having challenges interrupting light curcuit after relay

EDIT: This won't work. The flash to pass in the Honda energizes both the low AND high beams. While the below circuit will interrupt the high beam for the ghost switch, the lows will still flash. You also have to interrupt the blue/red at the light switch / stalk, which will add two more relays. Getting a little complicated.

Use the brake lights or some other (+) source for the ghost switch.

Or maybe HotWaterWizzard will draw you up something that will work. He seems to come up with simpler solutions than I do.

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Ok. I used wiring diagram for 2001 EX, V6, with out DRL. I didn't check for differences for other models to this one. If you have cut an orn/wht wire at the Flash to Pass switch, then we're both on the same page. The flash to pass switch grounds the orn/wht wire to energize the high beams.

The diagram below shows ONLY the changes needed for the (-) trigger Flash to Pass. All other connections in the above diagram remain the same. (So I didn't show them.)

Note that the diode on the upper right relay changes polarity.



Hope this helps. Sorry for the too-big photo. I wish this site had auto-resize like many sites do. Makes it easier to use photobucket to host pics.

Thanks man we were on the same track except i missed polarity change on diode.. So on a ground circuit are we protecting against v+ backfeed when coil collapses? Just curious No rush on response and thanks for the relay 101 class I needed it.

OK. I finally figured it out. This will work. It is still a (-) trigger. So use the modified circuit I drew for the (-) trigger.


Splice the orn/wht wire back together. Don't use it.
Use the blue/red wire (at the switch / stalk) instead of the orn/white.

Interrupting the blue/red prevents BOTH headlight relays from energizing. Neither the lows or highs will flash if the blue/red isn't grounded.

Use the blue/red.

My bad missed the edit section on davp response. So looks like I need to go to a plan b. Using brake as my ghost switch doesn't seem like an effective starter kill, most people step on brake on automatics to start. I thought of recirc button as option, I believe it resets when ign is turned off. I'm open to suggestions, the sneakier the switch the better. Thanks agian......Mao

Just checked wiring diagram again and it looks like blu/red controls ground for both relays. Would that work for interrupt on both high and low?

Unfortunately I can't edit my posts once there's a reply after my post. So you jumping right in doesn't allow me to go back and edit my mistakes.

Read the past 3 of my posts carefully. There are changes.

PARTICULARLY TO USE THE BLUE/RED. Not the orn/white.

maoskeeter wrote:

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Just checked wiring diagram again and it looks like blu/red controls ground for both relays. Would that work for interrupt on both high and low?

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YES

Right on, this circuit is relatively simple and I wont have to start from scratch. thanks for your help. I'm sure this will work fine and I like using a v- trigger instead of v+.        thx...Mao

The weekend is over.

Did you get this working and finalized?