Power folding mirrors

I searched these forums (as well as Google) and couldn't seem to find an answer to what I am trying to do. I want to wire my power folding mirrors in my 2007 Audi A4 to automatically close when I press the lock button on my factory keyless remote and open when I press the unlock button. I did find a few posts where @blkrhyno was attempting to do the same thing and @hotwaterwizard and @howie ll were very helpful but he has an A6 and his listed wires are not like mine.
On my switch in the drivers door that opens/closes the mirrors I have 4 wires:
Blue/brown stripe 1.11V all the time
Brown 0.2V in left/center(neutral)/right position & 0.5V while opening/closing
Blue/black stripe 0.78V in all positions 0.25V when adjusting mirrors
Blue 0.13V in left adjustment position
     0.46V in center/neutral position
     0.28V in right adjustment position
     0.02V while mirrors folding and in folded switch position.
All of these values are the same when the key is in the ignition as well as off.
Here's a picture of the mirror switch:


I have 2 of the DEI 528T's as was suggested to @blkrhyno for his install.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

This is a resistance switch. Start with dmm to contacts on bottom of switch when not connected to wiring. In the fold position and see if only 2 contacts are connected and the resistance.

Based on the measurements you made the Blue wire is the selection wire. The Blue/Brown stripe is the reference voltage wire.

Now I need to know how the switchs works to fold or unfold the mirrors. does it fold the mirrors in when you rotate the switch 180° or do you need to move it left and right also?

Thanks for the reply lurch228. Yes, the mirrors fold when you rotate the switch 180 degrees so the dot points down towards the window switches in the picture from original post. They unfold when you rotate the switch to any of the 3 positions that point away from the window switches.

1. Also can you clarify the previous readings you got on the Brown when Opening/Closing is the same or different when the mirrors are moving or at rest.


2. OK so matching the blue/Brown wire(reference voltage) to its corresponding terminal. With the switch unhooked from the wiring in fold position. Measure the resistance in (ohms) to the other 3 terminals, starting with the matching terminal to the Blue wire. If I'm right it should be open or very close to being open. Record the resistances of the connections and the location by matching wire color. Then switch back to center(neutral) and measure from (reference terminal) to Brown terminal.

Post the results so we can go to the next step.

I'm guessing we're looking at m/plex or data here so none of the switch wires are relevant. Probably signalled at the switch to the BCM and that's where the MOTOR wires output, use a pair of DEI 528t timer relays triggered by an ignition wire, mirrors will open on ign and close when you remove the key.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Or the data signal goes to a door module in EACH door then the motor wires are outputted you'll need to run 4 wires to each door!

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

@howie ll I know your way works but if we can decipher the switch based on the switch design. The position wire can be interrupted and feed the fold position resistance from the reference wire and activated using a relay and the ground when armed to fold both mirrors in. The when disarmed would resume normal operation. Thus no need to cut motor wires and install modules in both doors and run all those wires needed to do it that way. Based on his measurements thus far, what the resistance is when in fold position that drops the reference from 1.11 volts to .02 volts, and with all other positions being higher and different voltages is leading me to believe that it can be done. Once the folded resistance is known it can be tested by placing a matching resistor across the plug (While not connected to switch) from the reference voltage to the selection wire and see if they fold in. If he's willing to try I will do my best to help him do it.

OK, point taken.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

@howie ll That's ok were all here to help. Let them decide what help they want.

Question why doesn't anyone use the 529t or 530t which has adjustable load sense to stop the output when wiring direct to motors doing it your way?

The mirror load is far too low to affect them.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

@ howie ll I follow what you mean!

How about the 530T. Using a inversion of this mod Link:(530T Modification ) to lower its sensitivity by Changing the resistor value to a lower one , or adding a pot across each resistor.

Quote from 530T Mod "Exceeding 150 ohms when replacing these resistors could lead to failure of the window motor and/or module." So the original resistor was less than 150 ohms.

The last unit Date/Code OK/0K to Present has resistors which are removed to increase its load settings. So it is using bleed resistors. So it can be #2 penciled to lower resistance until it works. This is a power mod used on PC Motherboards and video cards to over volt them. The #2 pencil scrubbed across the top of the resistor adds conductivity lowering resistance ie increasing the bleed off. Or you could attach pots across the resistors also.

Linear taper Potentiometers provide a direct, linear relationship between wiper position and resistance division, so that equal changes in wiper position result in equal changes in resistance.

So a for example a 100k Micro pot which has a lowest resistance of 100R (100 ohms) would lower the resistance to 50 ohms if assuming the stock resistor is a 100 ohms when in parallel. So the adjustment range would be from 99.999 ohms to 50 ohms.

So based on the 530T modification doc. if we assume the original resistor was a 100 ohm and replacing it with a 150 ohm resistor raises the resistance setting a total of 100 ohms to 300 ohms from the max 200 ohms prior to mod. Then reverse modding should lower it a max of 100 ohms, making the adjustment range either 50 ohms or 100 ohms.

Of course these are assumptions based on the original resistors being 100 ohms. Once we know the true value of the originals we can calculate the true value to change.

Good point and you just confirmed that your technical knowledge is far greater than mine!
BTW, I'm a great believer in KISS and you can buy four 528t units for one 535t!!!

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Skinning the cat! lol

Thanks for the replies/help guys! Last Sunday I started replacing the turbo and all timing belt components and just finished today. I should be able to get the values you asked for @lurch228 this coming Sunday

Thanks again.

Let me know when you get them.

So I'm finally back on this project. I have hooked the 528t's up like @howie II said to in this thread in post #5:
https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=122988

But my mirrors aren't folding or unfolding?
I have found the motor wires in each door. They rest at ground and while the mirror is in motion show 12V and continue to show 12V for 2-4 seconds after the mirror has completed opening or closing. The switch works even with the wires cut and the 528t's hooked up so I know power is passing through. On the 528t that has the blue loop cut the BLACK/ white wire shows roughly 5-6 volts all the time and on the other 528t the BLACK/ white wire shows roughly 11 volts all the time...should they show voltage? Any additional help would be much appreciated.
Thanks.

To clarify there are two wires per motor/door. Both rest at ground while not in motion and show 11-12 volts on the opening wire while the mirror is unfolding and 11-12 volts on the closing wire while the mirror is folding.

Using the 528T's you are following @howie II wiring?

1st 528t, cut blue loop, BLACK/ white to ignition, orange to switch side of motor opening wire, yellow to mirror side.

2nd 528t BLACK/ white again to ignition, orange to switch side of motor closing wire, yellow to mirror side. (obviously cut both wires)
Brown and red on both to shared 10amp fuse, 12v+ constant feed, blacks to ground. set timers to 4-5 secs. Job done.

djhemmen wrote:

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So I'm finally back on this project. I have hooked the 528t's up like @howie II said to in this thread in post #5:
https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=122988

But my mirrors aren't folding or unfolding?
I have found the motor wires in each door. They rest at ground and while the mirror is in motion show 12V and continue to show 12V for 2-4 seconds after the mirror has completed opening or closing. The switch works even with the wires cut and the 528t's hooked up so I know power is passing through. On the 528t that has the blue loop cut the BLACK/ white wire shows roughly 5-6 volts all the time and on the other 528t the BLACK/ white wire shows roughly 11 volts all the time...should they show voltage? Any additional help would be much appreciated.
Thanks.

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Both 528T BLACK/ white are connected to ignition and should show +12v when the ignition is on.

lurch228 wrote:

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djhemmen wrote:

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So I'm finally back on this project. I have hooked the 528t's up like @howie II said to in this thread in post #5:
https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=122988

But my mirrors aren't folding or unfolding?
I have found the motor wires in each door. They rest at ground and while the mirror is in motion show 12V and continue to show 12V for 2-4 seconds after the mirror has completed opening or closing. The switch works even with the wires cut and the 528t's hooked up so I know power is passing through. On the 528t that has the blue loop cut the BLACK/ white wire shows roughly 5-6 volts all the time and on the other 528t the BLACK/ white wire shows roughly 11 volts all the time...should they show voltage? Any additional help would be much appreciated.
Thanks.

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Both 528T BLACK/ white are connected to ignition and should show +12v when the ignition is on.

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Thanks for the reply lurch228. Yes, I have the 2 528t's hooked up like Howie II said to. It just seems strange that the BLACK/ white wires show voltage even when the key is not in the ignition and when they aren't even hooked up to the ignition wire?? Should they show voltage all of the time? When I had the motor wires cut and the 528t's connected the switch to open and close the mirrors worked properly but the mirrors did not open and close with the ignition as they should?

Not sure never used them like this for power mirrors. Might want to shoot howie II a PM and see if he can shed some light on the issue.

Otherwise you could try the resistance method That I suggested to see if matching the switch resistance in the closed position across the reference 1.11 v blue/brown stripe to the blue wire in the plug when disconnected will close the mirrors.

Back at it again today. Still cannot get the mirrors to fold/unfold.
I have the red and brown wires hooked up to 12V.
Black wires to ground.
BLACK/ white wire hooked up to ignition.
In the drivers door there is a blue(open) and pink(closed) wires.
On the 528t that has the blue loop cut I hooked up the orange wire to the pink switch side and the yellow wire to the pink mirror side. On the 528t with the blue loop not cut I hooked up the orange wire to the blue switch side and the yellow wire to the blue mirror side.

The mirrors work as they should with the cars folding switch. I can hear/feel the 528t's turning on as they should but the mirrors aren't folding/unfolding. I noticed that when the car is started and during the timer duration both the pink and blue mirror side wires show 12V while the pink and blue switch side wires show 0V but the blue switch side wire shows 12V for 1-3 seconds when the timer clicks off? The same applies to all wires when the ignitiin is turned off. Shouldn't only 1 motor side wire show 12V and the other show 0V during opening and vice versa during closing?
Any ideas on what to do next?

Thanks again for all the help so far...it is much appreciated!!!

I also notice that both 528t's timers engage when the ignition is switched on and off. I thought only 1 engages when ignition is turned on to open the mirrors and the other engages when ignition is turned off to close the mirrors?

The BLACK/ whites, I can't remember but did you diode them, did I suggest it?

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

djhemmen wrote:

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I also notice that both 528t's timers engage when the ignition is switched on and off. I thought only 1 engages when ignition is turned on to open the mirrors and the other engages when ignition is turned off to close the mirrors?

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Cut blue loop will open mirrors when ignition supplies +12v, and the uncut blue loop will activate when the +12v goes away, ignition turned off closing mirrors. So they need to be wired accordingly.
Mirror Wire that tested positive when mirrors opening connected to yellow on cut blue loop 528T, and oppsite on other 528T for close.

Cut blue wire for mirror open.
Leave uncut for mirror fold"

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

LOL

@howieII You gave the abridged (KISS) version.

What did you expect? I'm at traffic lights!

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

I see!

What else are traffic lights for but to sort one's messages and emails?

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

I though it was a moment to watch life going in different directions! LOL

Don't need to watch can see with a tracker APP on the phone/tablet.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

I'm at my wits end with this project! I have now diode isolated the ignition trigger switches exactly as @howie II shows in the diagram in the second post of this thread:
Sorry...heres the thread mentiined above

https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=141431

OK, here's my original diagram from X years ago, others tried it and it worked. So there Dave, Ner ner
2F7_ign_mirror_fold.bmp

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

I like the way GM describes the circuits:
Hot in RUN and START
Hot in RUN (R/S installers treat this type as an ACCY circuit)
Hot in RUN and ACCY
Hot in START.

I have never heard the two "types" of IGN referred to as "IGN 1" and "IGN 2" on here. For the 5 years I've been here, if there are more than one circuit of a type, they get numbers. But the numbers have never defined the type.

The OP need a Hot in RUN and START. Or what we call "Ignition" on here.

They never did officially but that's the way DEI always described them in Directechs and I've stuck with it.
Just like to me 85 is the NEG side of the coil although that's irrelevant unless there's an inbuilt diode because that's the ISO convention although we always seem to use 30 as the output when that actually denotes battery + input!

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

It can also be very confusing to newbie/amateur installers as to why there are multiple ACC (Honda) ignition and starter outputs (most Japanese!)
We might know the reason but try explaining load sharing and cold start boost.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

davep. wrote:

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lurch228 wrote:

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No different than a door trigger is open then when door is opened it's a Negative or Positive.

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Nope. Not true. Not the same thing when you put a diode in the trigger.

On a (-) trigger, Open with door closed switch system (like a GM with B+ at the bulbs and the door pin grounds the circuit when the door is opened.), with the door closed the trigger input at the device will be 12V with the door closed, and 0V with door open, referenced to chassis ground. We all agree.

Now insert a diode in the trigger, band towards pin switch. With door open, pin switch grounds the module. Again we agree.

But now with door closed, the trigger at the module will be 0V referenced to ground because the diode blocks the positive flow towards the meter, or the module. The input can never be "driven high" because the diode blocks it. Door open, or door closed the trigger at the module after the diode will always be 0V, referenced to chassis ground.

I'm pretty sure the diodes in the timer triggers will do the same thing: Rectify the signal so the timer only sees 0V or 12V, it won't see the pulse. The timer trigger MUST see the state change to trigger. It won't with a diode.

I was born at night, but not last night. You can put up 50 posts a day, and you'll still be wrong on this. Go breadboard it, and try it. You need a diversion from the keyboard anyway. Give the rest of us a break.

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Change in continuity is a change in state!

Electrical voltages, or potential differences, are always measured between two points. So at its simplest, a "circuit ground" is the designated reference point against which other potentials in the circuit are measured; it is assigned a potential of zero volts.

If the device is electrically isolated from the outside world, e.g., a battery-powered flashlight in a plastic case, then the 0-volt reference point is arbitrary; it really has no ground point. But if the circuit connects to exposed metal parts or a conductive case, that's always the ground point. (Or "earth" in the UK.)

The 528T is providing some potential on the trigger wire to sense the connection to ground internally allowing for a measurable flow. Does the 528T trigger when you connect the trigger to chassis ground?
Yes it does!
The diode will block +12v potential from getting in but not from getting out in any given orientation.

You can't measure a path to ground without some amount of potential.

@howie II Class is in session! LOL

Too old for these new fangled transisters.
It's 11:30 and though I've managed to wangle a late start (98 miles today and out of 3rd. gear once, that's London for you BEFORE the schools go back).
I'm about to go to bed with a good old Sci-Fi book!

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

@davep. You think you know but unless you really know you are not helping anyone. You are just adding nonsense posts that have no real world benefit to what is being addressed here. So give yourself a break and get back to learning by reading not typing in others posts.

And as howie II says Ner ner Dave

Thanks @howie II for helping me get the proper ignition wire. I am now using the proper black wire for ignition. I hooked everything up exactly as your diagram shows with both 1A, 50V diodes and 3A,50PIV diodes but the mirrors still arent working?

@lurch228 I just tried hooking up the relay with the diodes as you suggested earlier but the mirrors still aren't opening/closing. Neither relay triggers when the ignition is turned on and both trigger when ignition is turned off when everything is hooked up by howies diagram as well as with lurchs relay?

@davep. With the yellow 528t wires to the motor sides, the BLACK/ BROWN / orange wires to ground, the RED / brown wires to 12V and the BLACK/ white stripe trigger wires to the proper ignition, the same as above happens, both 528t's do not trigger with ignition on and both do trigger with ignition off? I have tried with and without diodes and the same happens either way.

The closest I have gotten to success is if I take the 528t with the cut blue wire off of the black ignition wire and put it on the BLACK / YELLOW stripe secondary ignition wire I was using earlier and set the timer on the close 528t to 3 seconds longer than the open 528t then the mirrors open and close on ignition on/off!?!? With this wiring configuration only the cut 528t opens with ignition on but both 528t's open when the ignition is turned off. I believe this is because the black ignition wire shows 0.28V even when the car is turned off? Can a relay be used between the black ignition wire and the 528t trigger wire to only show 12V and 0V?
I am okay with this setup even though it appears to be a mickey mouse job unless you guys have something further for me to try?

Also, @davep. You mentioned earlier a way to wire a relay to make the factory switches work with this setup of the orange 528t's not being connected to the switch?

Thanks again for all your help guys. Taking your time to share your knowledge with a hobbyist is a true testament of your character!

djhemmen wrote:

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Can a relay be used between the black ignition wire and the 528t trigger wire to only show 12V and 0V?

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Sure as long as the 0.28v allows the relay to turn off. Ignition 86, ground 85 and 87a, 87 Constant +12v, triggers 30.
When relay off 30 is connected to ground. when on connected to +12v