Dball2 key programming problem

Hi all I decided to rip out my old alarm and fit a new viper 5305v remote start and dball2.the problem I have is the car will only remote start with the key in and turned on,when off it starts and switches straight off which leads me to believe the problem is with the key programming(I'm not convinced I did the procedure correctly)although the viper remote locks and unlocks the car.is there anyway I can reprogram the key again and when the in instuctions say key on and off then press lock and unlock does that mean Lock then unlock or lock/unlock together,I have done the shutdown diagnostics and it gives 3 flashes for tach learn I've done this and the led on the antenna turns solid blue which seems correct,if it makes any difference its wired in d2d mode,thanks Chris

The car is a uk Vauxhall Vectra 2006,dball2 software opl01

They are separate presses of the lock and unlock.

Will it remote start with the key in the ignition cylinder in the off position?

It's also possible it faulting due to seeing the programmed key data and the actual key at the same time if you R/S it with the actual Key in the off position in the cylinder.
Note: Since this unit has the capability to learn the tachometer with the analog input or through D2D from
an interface module, the unit gives confirmation as to which source the unit has learned from. If the tachometer
analog input on the system is connected to the vehicle, the D2D tachometer input is ignored. After
learning the tach and releasing the Control Center button, the system:
• Flashes the parking lights once if programmed using the analog tach wire.
• Flashes the parking lights twice if programmed using the interface module through D2D.


Important: After successfully learning Tach, a small minority of vehicle starters may over or under crank
during remote start. If such an occurrence is encountered you can fine tune the starter output time by programming
manually (see Tach Mode Starter Release in Programming System Features). Note: this feature is
programmable only with a Bitwriter.

List the connections you have made to make sure you didn't miss something.

No it won't start with the key just in the barrel.
Viper wiring as follows
10 pin plug
Pin 2 RED / black to permanent 12v
Pin 5 red=permanent 12v
Pin 7 violet=starter car side
Pin 10 pink=ignition 1

Main 5 pin

Pin 1 red=Ground
Pin 2 brown to siren
Pin 3 red =12v
Pin 5 white= pink/white on dball2 parking lights

24pin aux plug

Pin 13= ground(was connected to yellow/black on dball but wouldn't even try to crank)

dball2 wiring as d2d

Green=sw can
Tan/black=can h
Tan=can l
All found on steering column plug

BLACK/ white rap shutdown=door pin with 560ohm resister soldered inline

All wiring done as in dball2 fitting guide,only changes I made were to the WHITE/ black to earth and the RED / black on 10 pin plug is a extra connection as it wouldn't start with out it
Just to add when trying to start the parking lamps come on and go off ,viper remote locks and unlocks the doors and car key remote arms and disarms the viper as it should.

Your missing some connections between the R/S and the vehicle, "ACC" for sure but can't get my hands on a wiring list for the vehicle here in the U.S. So can't say for sure if there are any IGN2 ACC2 or Keysense requirements that need to be meet.

Hope this helps
I've connected the violet wire to ignition
The pink is connected to accessory

That is only the required connections to work with the bypass not the vehicle side wire colors and connections to complete the install to the R/S that don't involve the bypass that need to be powered like "ACC", Keysense, "IGN2", "ACC2" if the exist and are required or not.

I think I know where I've made the mistake the violet I've connected is the starter,on my model the stater is activated by can bus.thr pink I've connected to acc is the viper ingnition input/output so am going to swap this to where the violet is.there is an orange wire that's described as acc + output so I'm going to connect that.does this sound right.cant do it until later on today as I'm at work but hopefully that's where the problem lies.

Violet goes to the starter motor wire from Ignition, for R/S output to starter.
If installing starter kill you would cut the starter wire and connect the green to the key side of cut starter wire and violet to motor side of the cut wire.

Ok I think we have progress,I have swapped the wires so the orange acc is connected to acc and the pink ing1 is connected to ing.now when I try to remote start I get full ignition lights (which I never had before) and parking lights but doesn't crank the starter.the violet I have left unconnected for now as in my model of car the dball2 should activate the starter through can bus.now the reason I think I'm getting something right is that if I turn on the ignition with the key to position 2 and press the remote start it cranks and starts.i can then remove the key and walk away and it stays running until I press the remote button again or press the foot brake(before the engine would switch off) so I'm sure the dball and key are programmed correctly.

1. Is the DBALL2 Flashed for With the firmware for your vehicle. As it doesn't come with the firmware already installed for you vehicle. IT has to be flashed by the seller you got it from or by you to work on tour vehicle.

2.Did you use the OEM Remote to do the DBALL2 programming and press Lock and unlock in succession?
   

3. Module resets when you follow the Module programming mode each time. IF it doesn't work start at step 1 again.

With the wires corrected and the Ignition coming on re-program the DBALL2 and try again.

R/S take over will work because the immobilizer has already been satisfied by the key. Which resets when shutdown therefore still no R/S due to DBALL2 programming issue. Or no CanBus starter output being supplied, Which mean hardwire the starter, it is a issue with the Opel Astra/Zafira.

1 When I bought the dball I asked for it to be programmed and gave the make/model of my car,they said they done it and they posted it with the correct printed instructions,software version is OPL01
But I only have there word for it,I have ordered a xkloader3 so I can verify this when it arrives.
2 I think I messed up the key programming the first time but was able to unplug and start again and do it as you've described and the oem key locks and unlocks the car and arms/disarms the viper
3 I haven't tried reprogramming the key since i corrected the wiring
I'm aware of the Astra/zafira wiring they use the same dball2 software version and came with wiring instructions for that model.astra/zafira installation type 1,vectra/signum install type 2.the install type 1 instructions say to connect starter wire - to starter - which confused me a bit as I'm not aware of a - starter wire on the viper.

chrisj000 wrote:

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1 When I bought the dball I asked for it to be programmed and gave the make/model of my car,they said they done it and they posted it with the correct printed instructions,software version is OPL01
But I only have there word for it,I have ordered a xkloader3 so I can verify this when it arrives.
2 I think I messed up the key programming the first time but was able to unplug and start again and do it as you've described and the oem key locks and unlocks the car and arms/disarms the viper
3 I haven't tried reprogramming the key since i corrected the wiring
I'm aware of the Astra/zafira wiring they use the same dball2 software version and came with wiring instructions for that model.astra/zafira installation type 1,vectra/signum install type 2.the install type 1 instructions say to connect starter wire - to starter - which confused me a bit as I'm not aware of a - starter wire on the viper.

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Violet(Purple) is the starter output side of the Starter kill, R/S output to starter is on violet wire. Green is the Cut key side of same starter wire, if wiring starter kill. Violet is used even if starter kill is not being hooked up for R/S on vehicles that need the starter wire to be powered to start.

If you going to reprogram the DBALL2 do all the steps including the key.

Are you saying that I should try connecting the violet wire to the starter as the Astra/zafira type1 install?i am almost sure that the RED / black starter wire is a positive start wire and not a negative as stated in the instructions but would have to confirm this before sending 12v to it

Managed to get to the info page of the DBALL2 and you can't R/S this vehicle with out a sacrificial key for the 556UW to disarm the immobilizer. That's why it says Key Required for Operation (1)!

So I need another part,is the 556uw the box you put a key in with a ring that goes round theignition barrel i if so I looked into buying one of these before buying the dball2,I'm not sure my key will fit in the box and think I read that it's not compatible with European cars.does make sense though and would explain why it's not working.also wouldn't that mean I should be able to start the car with the key just placed in the barrel I have to turn the key on to get the engine to crank

If you have 2 keys and don't have a 3rd key I would get one.

chrisj000 wrote:

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So I need another part,is the 556uw the box you put a key in with a ring that goes round theignition barrel i if so I looked into buying one of these before buying the dball2,I'm not sure my key will fit in the box and think I read that it's not compatible with European cars.does make sense though and would explain why it's not working.also wouldn't that mean I should be able to start the car with the key just placed in the barrel I have to turn the key on to get the engine to crank

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Depends on the immobilizer design some read when keysense is activated (ie Putting key in cylinder) and some read when ignition goes live (ie No crank), and some read when engine is started and the shuts down injectors and coil(s) if no transponder match (Engines run for 2 seconds) during check for match.

So something like the 556uw would solve all of this?

In the U.S. on most 2000+ vehicles if you have 2 master keys you can program either 2 or 3 more keys, a total of 4 or 5 keys to the system. No dealer required to add the additional keys. With the newer systems they are program once so used keys can't be programmed to a new vehicle. This ability for the owner to add additional Transponder key or FOBIK is a requirement on a least U.S. Made vehicles, not sure of Imports having to follow this rule. You just need 2 working key or FOBIK's to program a 3rd.

If it won't fit in the 556UW or similar bypass then here is the alternative.

Would the relay system work on my car as the key needs to be turned to on,like the key sense you mentioned,taking the key apart and just placing the circuit board in the 556uw may be an option,also I just found this diagram for a vw install which may work

Yes the relay will work also, the wire loops act as a amplifier.

Enlighten me on the vw install that you found.
Can you post it?

Single out the odd wires at the ignition and test to see if any go +12v or (-)ground when key is inserted to find keysense. You already know that the Transponder is 2 of the wires.
Once you find key sense you can temporally power it up and test the remote start.
I've never seen a Transponder that was switched closed When Ignition was turned on, but any thing is possible.

This is for a 2008 Sabb9.7x but is supposed to be similar don't know if the wire colors are the sane but it's worth a shot!

12volts      orange (30A)      +      trailer brake pre-wiring
Notes: If equipped, the Digital Radio Receiver is under the passenger dash, behind the glove box.
Starter      yellow      +      ignition switch, black 12 pin plug, pin 11
Second Starter      N/A
Ignition      pink      +      ignition switch, black 12 pin plug, pin 5
Second Ignition      white      +      ignition switch, black 12 pin plug, pin 10
Third Ignition      N/A
Accessory      orange      +      ignition switch, black 12 pin plug, pin 7
Second Accessory      brown      +      ignition switch, black 12 pin plug, pin 12
Notes: Must be powered up. If not, the vehicle will crank as soon as it sees ignition.
Keysense      lt. green (required)      -      ignition switch, black 12 pin plug, pin 4 or BCM, tan plug, pin E3
Notes: The BCM (Body Control Module) is under the left rear seat, attached to the rear fuse box.
Power Lock      use Directed interface module
Notes: If interface module is not available, see Tech Doc 1053.
Power Unlock      see power lock
Lock Motor      gray      5 wire      rear fuse box, white 68 pin plug, pin F6
Notes: The rear fuse box is under the left rear seat.
Unlock Motor      tan      5 wire      driver window switch, gray 24 pin plug, pin B2
Parking Lights+      brown (F); brown (R)      +      rear fuse box, black 68 pin plug, pin C3; white 68 pin plug, pin E2
Notes: The rear fuse box is under the left rear seat.
Parking Lights-      BROWN / white to gray/black      -      headlight switch or BCM, tan plug, pin E5
Notes: The BCM (Body Control Module) is under the left rear seat, attached to the rear fuse box.
Hazards      white      -      hazard switch, black 9 pin plug, pin 2
Turn Signal(L)      dk. green      +      turn signal switch, black 8 pin plug, pin F
Turn Signal(R)      lt. green      +      turn signal switch, black 8 pin plug, pin H
Reverse Light      lt. green      +      rear fuse box, white 68 pin plug, pin E5
Notes: The rear fuse box is under the left rear seat.
Door Trigger      gray/black      -      driver window switch, gray 24 pin plug, pin A2
Dome Supervision      gray/black      +      rear fuse box, gray 32 pin plug, pin B6
Notes: The rear fuse box is under the left rear seat.
Trunk/Hatch Pin      pink/black      -      Liftgate Module, white 9 pin plug, pin 6
Notes: The Liftgate Module is in the liftgate.
Hood Pin      N/A
Trunk/Hatch Release      N/A
Power Sliding Door      N/A
Factory Alarm Arm      arms on lock with door open
Factory Alarm Disarm      lt. green      -      driver window switch, gray 24 pin plug, pin A4
Notes: Meter this wire while turning the key in the driver door key cylinder.
Disarm No Unlock      Passkey and ignition
Tachometer      white      ac      cluster, gray 24 pin plug, pin A12 or ECM, blue plug, pin 31 or 25
Notes: The ECM (Engine Control Module) is on the upper left side of the engine (4.2L), or near the lower left front of the engine (5.3L).

Can also go to any fuel injector and use the wire that is not pink.
Wait to start      N/A
Brake Wire      white to lt. blue      +      brake switch or trailer brake pre-wiring
Notes: The trailer brake pre-wiring are 4 blunt cut wires on the harness coming thru the driver firewall.
Parking Brake      lt. blue      -      parking brake switch or rear fuse box, black 68 pin plug, pin B1
Notes: The rear fuse box is under the left rear seat.
Horn Trigger      BLACK / YELLOW to black      -      horn switch or BCM, tan plug, pin E12
Notes: The BCM (Body Control Module) is under the left rear seat, attached to the rear fuse box.

**Make sure to use a relay to power the 2nd accessory (and 2nd ignition if the r/s unit you use does not have a flex relay output)

Saab wiring is totally Different unfortunately,the floor plan braking system and a couple of the engines are almost identical though.they did do a US version of the vectra c as it's known here,It's called a Saturn I'm not sure if that's the make or model though,I've ordered a 556uw today so will give that a try.i don't know if the cars over there are the same but the transponder on my car is part of the CIM interface the airbag,wiper and turn signal stalks and key barrel are all built into this unit and is all controlled by canbus,from the main plug,I think there is a separate 2 pin plug for the transponder the pic below is the cim for my car

This is the rear view,it looks like there's only one plug,I'm going to try and get a pin out wiring diagram for this plug

Thank god that most American vehicles don't have anything like that yet!

They don't make it easy although I've found the transponder ring inside the case it may work with a few modifications,this is one unplugged from the pcb

Like to meet the engineer that thought that up so I could slap him in the head and ask him what were you thinking? Apparently the immobilizer antenna ring was a after thought!

The only way i can think of doing this is to solder wires to where the red arrows are then drill a small hole in the casing to bring them to the outside.the other option is there is a small chance that a antenna ring will fit where the I've marked white but only have 1-2mm space to work with.what are your thoughts on this?      

Go with the non solder option, It will be a tight squeeze but it should fit. Hot glue tack it if necessary to keep it in place just go easy with the hot glue.

Will give it a try when it arrives and report back,thanks for all your time you've been very helpful

Just a quick update,everything is working as it should,the 556uw was an easy job in the end and the transponder ring just about fitted in the space available,thanks for all your help and advice
Chris