2005 Toyota Prius, Viper 4105v

Hello all,
This is probably directed more towards kreg357. I'm almost done installing my viper 4105v and ADS TB flashed with DBI-TB-TL v3.7 in a 2005 Prius. Everything works like it should. However I would like a secure takeover. The flashed version stated with it "*add brake detection for secure takeover". Last page of the idata 77711 document gives you the 45 sec procedure. I was assuming this would be an option. It's looking less like it from what I'm finding today. I overlooked a notice from the top of the type 4 wiring page that states, " Important: No takeover available. Engine will shutdown on brake press." And that is exactly what it is doing. So is the message about adding brake detection for a secure takeover more generics really intended for other vehicles? I had earlier watched a YouTube linked here https://youtu.be/8TC28fYvR3g?feature=shared where a ADS TB was used in a 2007 install and the usage of a successful secure takeover. And that was posted years ago. Was this YouTube magic? Or am I missing something to make this work?

Thanks

While I'm not 100% sure, I believe Jeff at Lockdown Security mis-spoke during his YouTube video. Pretty sure he used an ADS AL-CA bypass module on that 2007 Prius.

With the ADS AL-CA you can get Secure Takeover to work. The ADS TB is a bit limited and cannot do Secure Takeover. If you take a look at the comparison info page* on the iDatalink site it shows which solutions provide secure takeover. The Blade AL and Blade TB do along with the ADS AL-CA. The ADS TB does not. This is also stated on the Type 4 diagram for the TB but not for the other modules.

*    https://www.idatalink.com/search/search?vehicle_make_id=41&vehicle_year_id=2005&vehicle_model_id=276&vehicle_id=4346

-------------
Soldering is fun!

I appreciate the info. Wish I had seen that comparison page before. Didn't do a whole lot of research on the bypass itself for this install. Watched the YouTube video and checked the idata link site for vehicle fillament. Didn't think that the takeover would be a premium option. Well at least they didn't nickel and dime the rest of the functions.
Talk to remote starter- $5
You want the door to lock -$3
You want the door to unlook-$7
Trigger the rear defogger-$2

Think I will order the ADS-ALCA. It does appear to be the one used in the video.
Thanks again and I'll do a follow up to hopefully report its success.

I received the ADS-ALCA from Amazon today. Got it flashed, rewired to #77704, and installed.
Seems to be functioning like it should with a secure takeover!
Appreciate the help kreg357.

Good news! 8D Thanks for the update.

-------------
Soldering is fun!

Thought I was good. Started securing wires, bypass, and r/s and found that now there is absolutely no r/s shutdown. Thought maybe I overstretched a wire from a connector, but all connections remain intact and have continuity.
I have proper startup via r/s, but no shutdown via remote, or brake press. Only shutdown is manually pushbutton on the Prius.
Also, if I r/s and wait the 12 min for the viper to shut it down, parking lights turn off but the vehicle remains running.
The brake relay is operating like it should and sending 12v inputs to both the r/s and bypass when the peddle is pressed. The bypass and r/s seem to "shutdown" but is not delivering the message to the car.

I have unplugged everything. Tried to refresh things with puting the key fob in and turning the vehicle on and off. Reflashed the bypass.

I'm suspecting the GWR output used on the viper's satellite harness is causing the issue. When "running" it's more like 2v+ than a ground. Like 9v+ when not running. Odd, but seems good enough to initiate a remote start.
If I pin a ground to either the r/s GWR output or the bypass side input GWR after a brake press or remote push, the vehicle will shut down. Pining a ground down the circuit past the diode on #85 to the relay does nothing.

With all this said, could the viper's GWR output be malfunctioning and not sending the proper voltage or grounding to the bypass' input for the shutdown?

Perhaps installing a relay powered off the GWR output that can cycle a wired ground to the rest of the circuit?

I have tried moving the circuit wire to the rear defogger output to see if I gained functionality back. The vehicle would start and then quickly shutdown by itself.

Wow. This install is a real PITA!



Afterthought side note.....
Shortly after my post says ago when I said everything was working like it should. I did notice some intermittent issues after every remote start where the secure take over worked and other times it didn't work and the car would shut down after the brake press. Seemed when I disturbed the wiring to the viper's GWR connector it would correct itself on the next attempt of a secure takeover. It definitely wasn't dependable at the time. When I thought it was good, that's when I started securing the wiring and modules when the gremlin decided to show it's ugly head.

Possibly a silly question but do you have the 4105 H1/8 Black wire to a solid, clean Chassis Ground point? It's not shown on the R/S generic iDatalink wiring diagram but required.

-------------
Soldering is fun!

I do. Primary harness pin 8 ground. I earlier pinned an extra temporary ground to that connector as well. Same results.
fYI- gave a few more details at the end of my last post possibly as you were responding

Late night update... that's how I operate.

So I decided to roll with the main ground wire you spoke of and relocate to see if there was a difference. And there was not.

In the back of my mind I have been semi convinced that the bypass itself is possibly corrupt with the firmware? Maybe? So I decided once again to connect the bypass to the computer to reflash the firmware. I've had a few options for flashing like DBI, Hardwired, Data. Then two different versions. I believe 3.6 and 3.7. Being a prius and using a Viper I've been opting for the DBI version and hardwiring between the two devices. When everything worked first time around I used the "new" DBI version 3.7. When issues began to arise I reflashed to the DBI 3.6 because it said it was "supported", thinking it was probably a more proven firmware. This did nothing to resolve the non-shutdown issue. So 20 minutes ago I plugged the bypass into my laptop again for another reflash and this time the app told me right away there was an update to 3.7. The same version I had the first time around, but this just popped up and not in the usual way where I would have to go through all the options to get to this stage. Also had a toggle button for the adding the secure braking. So I toggled the option off and then back on and flashed the 3.7 firmware.

Reinstalled in the car with resetting it and the whole programing process for the type 4 key fob like I have done probably 40 times before. R/S the car.....it turns on. Waited a minute and pressed the viper r/s button to turn it off......and it turned off! R/S again...waited a minute... unlocked the doors and immediately pressed the brake and I had a good shut down! Now I didn't perform the process for the secure shutdown yet but felt satisfied that I had concurred the gremlin for the night.

So I'm thinking this had to have been a corruption in the firmware that was not allowing this shut down to happen. After performing numerous r/s tests in different conditions over the past week, I'm wondering if the firmware in the bypass is susceptible to alteration or damage with the communications to the viper. Seems kind of weird how the bypass relashes ultimately led back to a functional state.

I know this isn't over till I have everything secured under the dash and paneling put back in place.
I'll update soon

Put the car back together. The viper or the bypass seems to be finiky when I disconnect and reconnect a harness. Also making changes to the viper's menu settings also throws things for a loop. Seems like I have to pull the fuses to the viper every time a change is made and cycle the ignition on and off to hopefully get a clean slate.

With this, I've got a good shutdown with the remote and brake peddle outside of the secure take over. When attempting a secure take over it seems hit or miss. I don't know if it makes a difference to hold your foot on the brake for a few seconds vs. a single quick press at the end of the takeover sequence.

So, I suppose it is what it is. This is all firmware. Don't think my quest for a secure takeover was worth changing to the ALCA if the takeover may or may not happen. At least this has been my experience with it.

In the driver's side kick panel I relocated the unlock and lock wires of the viper to the pink and blue "key unlock" and "key lock" of the Prius. My initial search of these two wires were unsuccessful and I ended up probing and connecting the viper to 1 brown and 1 green "master unlock" and "master lock" on the Prius. Both sets of wires were on different connectors.

I thought there were perhaps errors with the wire color chart on other websites.

I did find a posting on a priuschat forum that correctly identified the connector's (IE1) position I needed for the lock and unlock wires. On the initial install, I used a Prius wiring schematic that did not identify the correct connector, sending me on my on search for a generic lock/unlock circuit. Seemed to work in the beginning.

My unreliable secure takeovers, and what I eventually saw non responsiveness of the remote after sitting for awhile, had me in the hunt for the pink and blue wires. I believe the key lock/ key unlock wires wake the Prius body ECU to receive commands from the bypass and viper. Just tying to the door lock wires was not good enough.

Everything seems to be working now. Secure takeover when I want it and responsiveness after sitting for awhile.

I also figured out if I left the headlights on, they would stay on after the viper's timeout shut down. Had to add a relay to the viper's factory alarm rearm output to cycle a ground to the driver's side door ajar wire. That fixes that.

Last thing. I think I'm missing the flash output confirmation for locking and unlocking. The light flash is connected and parking lights are on when the r/s is running. Just no flash to the door locks when the car is off. Thought there would be a programming option on the viper menus, but don't see anything like that. Thoughts? 🤔

Q. Just no flash to the door locks when the car is off. Thought there would be a programming option on the viper menus, but don't see anything like that. Thoughts?

Not a big Viper user but I'm pretty sure the Parking Lights should flash with a lock or unlock command. It's possible that the lights on while R/S are DRL's. Think you should double check the 4105 Parking Light jumper.
If you are using this vehicle wire :

Parking Lights    BROWN (+)    @ FUSE BOX, TOP LEFT CONN., PIN 10

The 4105 Parking Light jumper should be set to (+) and the Brown wire should output a (+) ~.8 second pulse with a Lock command ( two pulses with a Unlock ).

-------------
Soldering is fun!

Humm. I'll have to look.
My install notes I wrote have me tying into a -yellow wire @ the headlight switch and puting the viper jumper to -.
My parking lights flash if the viper detects the hood pin open or if I had a failed start attempt (from earlier issues). They also come on and stay on while the vehicle is remote started. If it is a DRL side of the circuit, maybe it flashes and turns on for all of these instances because the viper turns on the accessory circuit on the car?

It's snowing here today, but I'll make the change to see if that corrects it soon. I appreciate the info for sure!

Side note: I also have a 4105v on my 02 Explorer I installed a month ago and it does have unlock/lock flasher confirmation.

Looking over the Prius schematics. Does this look like the correct connector and position in the circuit to tie into?

Yes, that looks correct. Easy to test with a Digital Multi Meter. It's fused at 10 Amps so the 4105 (+) Parking Light output should be OK. The (-) Parking Light Yellow wire at the Headlight Switch connector should be OK too.

-------------
Soldering is fun!

Found it. Made the change to the +Brown wire and switched the jumper to +. Flashers work like they should for the door lock confirmations while the car is off.

Another issue came up. And this was happening before the flasher wire change.

I thought the key lock and unlock wire change (pink & blue) fixed the unresponsiveness after sitting awhile. At least it did for lock and unlock responsiveness. I have found now that the remote start is unresponsive after sitting overnight. Infact, this morning it set off the factory alarm when I attempted a remote start.
So now, sitting for several hours, remote start does not respond. I see the brake lights activate for the start, but they go out after a few seconds and the parking lights flash 1 time indicating a failed start. No dash lights come on during this.

This evening I tried it again and it failed to start. After pressing the viper lock and unlock several times, I attempted the remote start and it worked.

I'm wondering if a computer "wakeup" is needed. Perhaps using the viper's factory alarm disarm wire to trigger a circuit?

I've had to do something similar with my 02 Explorer.

Update. Disconnected battery hoping to reset the viper and alca. Remote start now failing every time with the 1 flash code of a failed start.
At this point I put the key fob in the car the r/s turns on the car. After I turn the car back off, I'll take the key fob out of the car walk away with it. Then r/s and the car will start again without the key fob inside.
So I'm now thinking the bypass is not reliably transmitting the key fob's frequency?
Could it be an issue of the distance from where I've mounted the bypass in relation to the key slot?
Or the ALCA doesn't transmit the frequency wirelessly, but does so through the wire connections? Making the distance a non issue then.

Got some strange issues...

First, I would suggest that you set the Viper for Double Unlock Pulse, Menu 1, Feature 5 to Option 2, if you haven't already. Second with all the issues, are you properly soldering all your wire connections?

Never heard of a Toyota needing a "wake up".

As far as the Factory Alarm on a R/S, the GWR connection should take care of that. Hitting Keysense with a (-) should turn off the Factory Alarm. Too bad you're using a 4105. Other R/S systems have the programming option for "Unlock before and Lock after R/S". With your car and using the driver's door key cylinder lock wires the alarm should be handled and a "wake up" not necessary. It's possible that the 1N4001 diode on the Keysense wire is bad/flakey. If you haven't used both (-) Status Output and the (-) 2nd Status Output wires you could use both with one going directly to Keysense without the diode.

The cars' transponder is handled by the ADS AL-CA Code and TXCT wire connections. As long as you didn't extend the Blade harness wires and you soldered those connections there should be no issues.

-------------
Soldering is fun!

I did not set the double unlock before. Completely forgot, but I just did so now. I'll wait to see if this changes anything before proceeding with the other suggestions. All my connections are using Cubefeller Solder Seal Wire Connectors. As far as I can see, all connections are solid. The flakey diode suggestion seems like a plasable issue. Honestly since the whole key fob sitting on the seat with a r/s last night, the car has started each of the 5 r/s' I've attempted. I don't trust it though. I'll see if the double unlock does anything first.

There does seem to be a "clunk" lock thrown in the sequence before the r/s executes.

After setting the double unlock pulse. Yesterday I had reliable remote starts all throughout the day at different time intervals. Before going to bed I tried 1 last time and it failed and gave me 1 flash. After locking and unlocking with the viper I attempted again for a r/s and it worked.

After 8hrs or so this morning I attempted a r/s and failed with 1 flash. Tried a r/s again and the factory alarm sounded. Was able to shut it off with the viper unlock. I then locked the car with the viper remote and attempted a r/s and it started.

So I just finished soldering a replacement 1N4001 diode on the key sense wire facing the same direction as per the idata diagram. Everything is working right now. We'll see how the day goes.

If this doesn't work out, thinking my next move will be to use the viper's factory disarm wire with a diode to the key lock circuit. My my hope is for the viper to send a lock pulse first before the r/s attempt routine. A first time "wakeup' for a Toyota?

Or like you mentioned other remote starters having the unlock then lock option prior to startup. If in my instance an unlock is needed for the wakeup, I can diode the disarm wire to the unlock. I mentioned in another post that there is a lock "clunk" during the r/s routine so it seems that the r/s would relock the car after the disarm wire had unlocked the car?

I am currently utilizing the other grounded output for the rear defrost. If the disarm wire doesn't do anything, I'll sacrifice the rear defrost for a undioded key sense connection.

Long story short, it's fixed!

The story.....
Connected the disarm wire with a diode to the key lock wire. So r/s gives a preemptive "lock" before the r/s routine is even started. Had to set in menu 1 feature 7 to have this only do this prior to the r/s. Seemed to work throughout the day. Of course the next morning the r/s failed and the factory alarm sounded anyway. So we have still maintained the integrity of never hearing a Toyota needing a "wakeup". Lol. I still kept this intact, liking the idea of an extra lock before the r/s.

So I moved to your idea of separating the key sense circuit from the relay operating the key lock solenoid. This again brought me back to an earlier post where I pointed out voltages on this circuit I thought was strange.

winters692pr7 wrote:

---

I'm suspecting the GWR output used on the viper's satellite harness is causing the issue. When "running" it's more like 2v+ than a ground. Like 9v+ when not running. Odd, but seems good enough to initiate a remote start.
If I pin a ground to either the r/s GWR output or the bypass side input GWR after a brake press or remote push, the vehicle will shut down. Pining a ground down the circuit past the diode on #85 to the relay does nothing.

With all this said, could the viper's GWR output be malfunctioning and not sending the proper voltage or grounding to the bypass' input for the shutdown?

Perhaps installing a relay powered off the GWR output that can cycle a wired ground to the rest of the circuit?

---

So I did multiple voltage tests with r/s in action and the vehicle at rest with this circuit. I found that the voltage was ultimately being introduced to the circuit via the key lock solenoid relay. I have not been using relays with a flyback diode to help with voltages jumping the coil from point 86 to 85. The many relays I have are cheap and nothing special. At least I believe if I used this type of relay, it would have eliminated this voltage jump.



So the GWR -input on the bypass is seeing this introduced voltage and thinking the key sense wire is introducing this and that the vehicle is not ready for a start. And that's why the vehicle doesn't start. The key sense connector on the vehicle produces 12v+ 1 minute after the vehicle shuts off and goes to 0v right before if ignition occurs and stays 0v while the vehicle is running. So the GWR -output from the remote start is being trampled on by this 12v+ introduction by the voltage leak from the relay. As to why I was getting any starts is beyond me? Maybe after it sitting around long enough the vehicle battery has more voltage for the initial 12v+ spike to be introduced to the circuit? Anyways, this voltage leak doesn't belong there so separating the key sense from the solenoid circuit needed to be done. My other status wire was connected to my -rear defrost and that needed solid -ground for that to initiate. So I removed all the diodes and this is the wiring I came up with.



Afterthought...Looking at this again, reintroducing the diodes on both status wires prior to the r)s would be okay now.

Because I didn't want to give up the -rear defrost, I piggybacked another relay with a separate frame ground to the -rear defrost trigger wire. Perhaps this could have been all avoided with the use of a flyback diode on the relay and stuck with the initial wiring diagram, but I felt taking this all the way this route after the leak discovery was best. I think idata should specify in the diagram under the required items that this particular relay should have a flyback. Or maybe installers know already that flyback diode relays should always be used for r/s installations?
As for the other relay in this installation connected to the brake, it also has a 12v+ leak past the relay coil. But, it seems that it doesn't affect the performance of that circuit. Conventional wisdom would probably direct me to put a flyback relay in there.
Hopefully this post will help someone else out

Thank you Kreg357 for all of your help. Your installation wisdom has helped me out with this big time!

Thanks for the update. Glad it's working well now.

My question is "Are you controlling the ADS AL-CA via the DBI Data harness or going with hardwire and "Standard Mode" on the ADS AL-CA? If you were to be using the Vipers' (-) Status Output going directly to the bypass and the vehicles Keysense wire without diode isolation, then simply inserting a key into the ignition switch might make the bypass think a R/S was being initiated.

Additionally, if the 2nd Status Output is set the Status instead of Defrost, then your Defrost circuit is being turned ON with every R/S without the 15 second delay.

If you were to run the ADS AL-CA in Data mode, run the Keysense wire with one (-) Status Output and the Key Lock Solenoid relay with the 2nd Status wire, then everything would work properly, albeit without the Defrost circuit function.

To run the Defrost with the 2nd Status Output set to Defrost, you could use the (-) Status Output to control two 12V mini-relays, each providing an isolated GWR signal to the necessary relay and Keysense.

Just some random thoughts if you encounter some issues in the future....

-------------
Soldering is fun!

I had to flash the ALCA to DBI but hardwire the connection to the viper's DBI (or D2D harness?) port. The 4 pin connector with
1 D2D-tx
2 (-) ground
3 D2D -rx
4 (+) 12v

I had an extra satellite harness connector that was unused from my 02 explorer install that is the same type connector for the DBI.

I only used #2 ground and #4 12v from that DBI port down to the ALCA bypass. The status wire from the viper (#1 output from satellite harness) was first T'd to the bypass status input then down further the status wire T'd to the dioded key sense....down further the status wire is terminated with a dioded relay. Just like the #77704 diagram illustrated.

So now the difference is the connection has been severed to the relay and the relay (or now "relays") are now being provided it's ground from the viper's 2nd status -rear defogger output. After expressing my afterthought in the previous post of puting the diodes back in, I did solder them back in both circuits. So the key sense is dioded from the status output wire and the relays are dioded in the defogger status output wire. All I know is, in the end, the #77704 document allows a back feed of 12v from that relay and disturbs the bypass' proper GWR input. The placement of the diodes do not account for the 12v+ coming from that direction. As for the 2nd status rear defrost wire, I wasn't aware you can change it from "status to defrost". The viper menu 2 feature 8 has a "2nd status behavior" with options of normal, latch rear defogger, and pulse rear defogger. I believe mine is set to normal. I guess I was assuming the defogger wire would be instantaneous and wasn't aware of a 15 sec delay. Supposing if there was a 15 sec delay, it would only delay the key lock solenoid relay by 15 secs. In turn the ability to shut down the car with the brake if the secure takeover wasn't satisfied wouldn't work within those 15 sec. I did think about the other wiring method as well. Seems like there could have been a few ways to overcome this flaw.

Fyi
I had used just the DBI data cable before without the status wire and had no success. And that was with flashing the ALCA to the standard mode. The status wire would have needed to be introduced to the nice clean data harness. So if I had to butcher, I would rather settle with the hardwire