Printer Friendly Forum Posts - How are new cars stolen?

I have never really inderstood this - unless of course you tow the car or have the keys.

For instance, I have a 04 Jeep Grand with a Clifford 3.5RS - there are 3 security measures - factory alarm, sentry key and 3.5RS. How in the hell can someone hot wire my car in a minute. And how do they bypass the key - that has got to be the hardest part. Even cars just just have factory starter kills/transponder keys - how the hell do they do it? My car is on the top 10 most stolen and I dont think you can buy a newer grand WITHOUT a sentry key.

Anyway just curious and bored -

Tow truck

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Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA

I would estimate about 50-75% of the newer GC's come with the Sentry key. And probably about half come with the factory alarm.

If I could read a service manual for the vehicle, I could probably figure out how to bypass the transponder. I just have never had the need to steal one before.

the fact that you've installed a remote start on a vehicle that has some form of factory immobilization system means that you've already compromised it somewhat. although it's true that your factory immobilizer is only by-passed during the remote start sequence, the fact that the it can be by-passed at all means that someone can manually trigger those components and hot-wire your car, right? we all know how to do it, since that's the stuff we're installing in the first place!

nonetheless, it would take quite the wizard to do that in a minute.....unless he's the one who installed it in the first place.

yeah but when we bypass a car we have a huge advantage - we either have the key, or have 2 of the keys to program somesort of bypass. But when you program that bypass the whole point is that you already have access to the car and keys etc.

Also- i dont think ive ever seen a 99+ grand cherokee without sentry and without the alarm - im not talking the whole mopar alarm - just the horn honker when the doors are opened. I take that back - bottom level laredos dont have the blinking red light on them.

But still - i dont get how any of them get stolen

Like what Jeff(Velocity Motors) said above, using a Tow Truck is the easiest way the crooks can do it. I know some friends whose neighbour's BMW was stolen like that at night, and no alarm went off. If you have a level/tilt-sensor attached to your alarm, at least it will go off when the car is being lifted or tilted. Plus if you really want to safeguard your car, do like what I did: put a camera pointing to your car with motion sensor masking an area that records only when someone is in or around the area of your car.

I've been hearing claims of passlock 2 car/trucks going missing. One mechanic claims that you can use a magnetised screw driver once you remove the cylinder. Don't think so. Another says use a special box that ties in under the dash, but without an original key/s and programming that shouldn't work either. There is only one way to drive the car away without the key, but the car has restiricted performance.( Tranny won't shift, reducded engine performance.)

Passlock is easy to get around. Don't know about the magnetized screw driver but if the mech in the key controlled by magnitism then it is possible.

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Certified Security Specialist
Always check info with a digital multimeter.
I promise to be good.
Tell Darwin I sent you.

I've been sick lately, sorry I won't be on much.

If someone had access to a manufacturer specific scan tool(e.g. GM's Tech II) I'm pretty sure they can plug it into the diagnostic port and tell the computer to enable fuel and spark without receiving the transponder or resistor signal. You'd still have to pull the key cylinder to unlock the steering column though.

I'm not 100% sure, but I've been told that Passlock can be disabled by pulling a fuse. Don't know if there is any truth to this or not, but a guy once told that there is a fuse for the passlock that is not labeled, or else its labels "accy" or something. I know OnStar can be disabled by pulling a fuse, I've seen it done. So right there, a theif can disable your tracking device.
Personally, I don't care how many anti-theft devices my car comes from the factory with, I'm always gonna have an alarm with a pager and starter kill!

If someone is determined to steal, they will succeed one way or another, since more thieves are presumably looking for parts rather than the whole vehicle. Once they get the car away either by towing or some other means, unfortunately (or fortunately for them) they are free and clear. However a camera recording the action can lead to further action (such as recovery and an arrest). Also most parts nowadays are etched with the VIN number, however I also heard that the thieves file these numbers off. Thieves and cops are always gonna be there whether we like it or not.

About bypassing the car's security system or tracking system, it really sounds possible since any computer will respond to the program it is designed to work on, and all computers are just machines. Electronic devices can be reprogrammed or changed even like chriswallace mentions by connecting to the onboard computer or OBDII. Mechanical ones cannot be tricked other than broken by physical force. I certainly would like to invent something to stop car theft.

True what you said "Once they get the car away either by towing or some other means, unfortunately (or fortunately for them) they are free and clear." I know of a guys car getting stolen and it was found literally around the corner. It seems they couldnt get it started, so they pushed it with another vehicle(the bumper was damaged) around the block to a more secluded area and took the wheels and stereo system. So this proves that NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, will be 100% effective in keeping your car from getting stolen. True you may keep a theif from starting your car, but that doesnt mean they wont steal it. If they really want it THAT bad, they will get it, no matter what. I'm wondering now if the best security measure would be a closed and locked garage!

My neighbor’s Toyota truck was stolen about a month ago; and lucky for her, it was found a week later.

The detective working the case told her that some car theft gangs have infiltrated dealerships and if they see a car they want in the service bay they get a key made and then just wait for it to be taken home. Then they just go get it.

This is probably what happened to her as she had just taken her truck to the dealership for some work and a week later, the truck was stolen.

When she got the truck back, no broken glass, no forced entry…. Deduction… the thief had the key.

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AGDodge

Passlock.... the r-code is sent when the key barrel is turned. the vehicle has no way of knowing if a key was used...

Big Timers are in the dealerships / for Small Timers, a tow truck must be the way to go.

Personally, I would use a big rock and conk people on the head in parkades as they come back to their vehicles. I think stealing cars would be much easier with the keys ( and Alarm remotes).

Good thing I've read enough spiderman comics to know that crime doesn't pay.

Someone has my name almost.

Will that be possible if you have

a) immobilizer and
b) re-program the remote-keys to remote-brain each time you get out of your dealership?

ps. I always service my car 240 miles away from home so I can sleep in peace I guess. I only service it when I visit friends that are 200 miles away, and the dealership is 40 miles from their house. On top of that I have a camera pointing at my car and surrounding areas (adjustable). Should my car be stolen, I have the action digitally recorded and a page sent to my cellphone.

You drive 3 and a half hours to get your car serviced??? What do you do when something breaks and you cant drive it very far? Personally, I dont like bringing my car in for service anywhere unless I wait at the shop till its done. If its a major repair and I have to leave it a few days (like when I had my transmission rebuilt) I don't give my present address. I use my old address, any mail which goes to that address is forwarded to my P.O.Box. After I got my car back, I wiped out the remote codes, and reprogrammed them one at a time, that way, I know no one has a transmitter programmed to disarm my alarm. I have shaved locks, so with no transmitter, you aint gettin in my car, bottom line.(unless of course you bust a window)

I don't drive 3 and a half hours only to get my car serviced. If you read my post again, you will see that I get it serviced WHEN I visit friends. Plus I have personal work (which I do anyway once a week) so why not get it serviced when I am there anyway, right? This won't be a solution to most people, but for me it suits me perfectly without doing any extra work than what I got to do anyways. I maintain my car every 3000 miles even though the manufacturer recommendes 5000 or 7500 depending on if I am in a salt/dust zone. Hopefully the only problem I may have is a flat tire, and that I have had once before on a cold winter night with snow falling all over. Unfortunately the flat tire had to happen while I was passing through a "bad" neighbourhood in Bronx as I was heading towards the Whitestone bridge.

I've also heard they have a brake-pedal lock, which is a physical metal device that won't allow anyone to be able to press the brake pedal without removing this. May give that a try.

When you say you shaved your locks, do you mean nobody can put in a key anymore? That looks like a good idea too. Maybe you could have disconnected the cable inside the door that connects to the actual lock. Just a thought.

Anyone who tries to break into cars and then hotwire it is not car a thief but an installer with a part-time job. Keep in mind that thief are opportunist. Professional car thieves on the other hand are those who are never caught because they do things the quick and efficient way. I don’t know where in the world most of you are from, but in Toronto car thief here steal your car keys when you are sleeping in your room. They usually lurk around your house first to see if they can spot your car keys lying around the kitchen counter top or coffee table before they break in to your house to get it. They other way is getting your ownership paper and showing it to the dealership to make a copy of your car key. It’s a bit of work for the thief to get the paper done, but it’s guarantee success on stealing your car. I don’t think there is any device in the market that can prevent your car from being stolen as affective as common sense. The Immoblizer is extremely effective with what the manufacture have done, but they are useless if the car thief got a hold of your keys. Park the car in the garage if you got one. And markcars, as you were saying you want to invent something to prevent car thief. I think there is one; it’s called an ELECTRIC CHAIR. And apply this is extremely difficult. However, in many countries it’s a very effective device to prevent crime. Still, I don’t think it is 100% car thief proof, but it will reduce the chance of our car being stolen.

posted_image

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Be careful whose advice you buy, but be patient with those who supply it. posted_image

By "shaved locks" I mean that the key lock cylinders were removed altogether. I removed them and disconnected the lock rod inside the door. The body man welded in a peice of metal and smoothed it over when he did my bodywork and paintjob. So now to door look like they came from the factory without locks. The only way I can lock and unlock my doors is by using my alarm to trigger the power locks. So far, I've only been assed out 1 time. My battery went dead and the power locks didnt work! I had a "lotta fun" reaching from under the car with various extensions on a ratchet to undo the hoodlatch bolts. But once I got my hood open, I jumped it and the alarm unlocked my doors.

Man this is a good thread. A little over a year ago someone tried to steal my car with a pair of scissors. But since I never leave my car(s) without turning the wheels to the curb and locking the steering wheel, the thief was unable to unlock it and try to start the car. I ended up having to replace the ignition switch anyway. There was something going on here in LA for a bit where Cadillac Escalades were getting stolen from Dealerships. There was someone on the indside who was supplying keys. I wonder what a thier would say if he came outside and his car had been stolen.

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Duane...

If you think you're confused, imagine how you feel. posted_image

That's why it's not a good idea just to rely on just the alarm. Put a club on the wheel, on the brake, and 5 different kill switches. Make the bastard work even if he has your key or transmitter. Hopefully by the time he got to the 4th switch.. your 2nd silent alarm with no siren and motion sensor already paged you, you wake up and you go grab your baseball bat.

Nicely put Pooreclipse!

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Tim-May!

Pooreclipse wrote:

Hopefully by the time he got to the 4th switch.. your 2nd silent alarm with no siren and motion sensor already paged you, you wake up and you go grab your baseball bat.
where can i get these things!! i just got a truck and dont feel safe after reading all this stuff....Around my way (jersey) Trucks are being stolen ALL the time...especially if you have rims on it.
so where can i get a 2nd alarm thats silent and the motion sensor to Page me!!
I never heard of that. All I have on my car is the Club, Auto Lock (which i hear is easy to get passed by) and an alarm.

Ok I exaggerated alittle, in theory you can install 2 alarm systems. One of the feature on the lynx 2000 is that it will page you but it will not sound the siren, so the thief thinks he's safe but you are being notified. Or you can just install any alarm without a siren as a 2nd alarm. Most alarm can be hooked up to a motion sensor...

Try to add a lock to the hood, or a pair. Dont' like the look? hey they are functional. Also incase you need to drive really really fast it serves to hold the hood down :)

but like mentioned already.. all you can do is slow them down, or deter them, and screen out the amateurs thiefs... But are you sure a pro really wants your car?

If you have enough switches gadgets and switches to even annoy yourself, then you bet the thief will be annoyed and hopefully he'll give up.

well, I wouldnt recommend this for customers, as stated above by removing the door lock cylinders, but I too have done this to my HOnda civic and has saved it once so far... the thieves tried to take it in front of work. couldnt get in, they destroyed every lock cylinder I had on every door (3dr hatch) and finally, broke a window to get in. they realized they couldnt get in from unlocking the door from the inside either, but the broken window attracted the attention of a passerby and we chased off.

so my car 1, thieves 0

I think about it all the time. so I have installed the viper 791 xv w/gps tracking and well I've got to say I'm impressed by its accuracy. a bit pricey (I was one of the first after it was released) but has a lot of nice features, about 5 seconds after they open the door/ hotwire it or tow/move the car over 150ft, my cell phone rings with an automated message.

its your option to call the police once you find its location

as said earlier I also disconnected the inside door lock switch. there is a central location 'hidden' for locking/unlocking of the doors, but not on the doors itself, there is also a jumper hidden somewhere underneath the car in case of a dead battery, just to unlock the doors when a screwgun battery is attached, or jump box..

as for having the car parked out front. I like the camera idea with the motion sensor, I also have been pondering installing a 'wireless door sensor' from my wireless home security module. I was thinking of installing it on the part of the steering column that is usually removed to break the column, hotwire the car, or maybe a pressure sensor on the seats (the doors WILL NOT OPEN PERIOD, when the alarm is armed, they have to crawl thru the window).. and if set off, the HOME alarm will also go off waking up everyone in the house and alerting armed home security to the location.

I was also thinking of setting up a garage door sensor on my driveway, some sort of perimeter detector.. some one sneeks up on the car, sets off a beeper/siren/strobelight in the house and gives you time to gather a baseball bat or whatever. that would be set up on a time delay or somethings like that.

this is my first post here, but have been doing this for quite sometime and I found this thread very interesting and informative.. hope you like my input

-charles

the truth is once you install a remote start on your car. the thief has everything he need to steal it. but i agree its much easier to just steal your keys.

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im glad everyone likes my thread - i still have some more questions.

lets use my jeep grand cherokee for example - even if i have the VIN and go to the dealer and get a key cut - it will still have to be programed to the car with the car actually being there. You either have to have 2 keys that alreaady work or the chrysler scantool to "match" a key with a car. So how is a JGC stolen without using a towtruck or stealing your keys? I guess im just thinking of the moving Gone In 60 Seconds when they are stealng the ferarri and have a box that they plug into under the hood.

I agree that once you install a remote start you give them the tools to steal it but.... if they have the time to take off the dash panel, find the ground when remote started with, ground it to send your keys signal to the ingition, then hot wire it, they are at about 5 min minimum. Not to mention that out off all the cars on the road with transpondor keys I but that less than 5% have remote starters and less than 1% of manuals have remote starters.

Guess im just thinking that with all the money auto makers put into cars there would be someway it would be basically unstealable.

I know that when VATS first came on on Corvettes, professional theives figured out a way to bypass it. They carried a corvette engine computer, and a VATS key with the correct resistance to match the computer. They would break into the car, unplug the stock computer, plug in theirs, and slide they matching key into the ignition switch. Then when they proceeded to break the steering column to start it, it would start right up because the computer would read the correct resistance and think that the correct key was in the ignition. But this isnt possible with passlock beacause the key actually has to turn for the computer to read the resistance.
I wonder if maybe this is also possible with transponder keys? I mean, I know the transponder is in the head of the key, so I know it doesn't actually have to turn. Do you think a theif can start a Grand cherokee if he has a matching computer and transponder key and swaps it out, like I described on the corvette?

That sounds theoretically possible, but it wouldn't work quite the same if the transponder signal didn't run straight to the engine computer. I know on GMs with Passlock II, the resistance code is sent to the BCM, which then sends a data signal to the engine/powertrain computer telling it to enable fuel/spark/cranking. On the other hand though, if you had an ECM or PCM which had the immobilizer programmed out of it, the whole thing would be kind of a moot point.

BTW, brivalen, remember the dinosaurs walking in Jurassic Park? Hollywood can take some wonderful liberties with technical details sometimes, can't it LOL.
Though to be fair, replacing the ECM would probably look something like that I guess.

So are you saying everything they did in "Gone in Sixty Seconds" wasn't real? Nooooooo, I thought everything in Hollywood was real.

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Certified Security Specialist
Always check info with a digital multimeter.
I promise to be good.
Tell Darwin I sent you.

I've been sick lately, sorry I won't be on much.

well those two movies weren't so accurate, but Will Smith and Bill Pullman did defeat alien invaders in one of the Marine Corps' best kept secret battles.

Another hypothesis. I've seen that show on the Learning Channel called "Repo Men:Stealing for a Living". Several of those repo men had tow trucks with wheel lift contraptions that grabbed a car and lifted it up by two wheels(usually the drive wheels). Some even had rear view cameras and remote controls setup to where they didnt even have to get out of the truck. They literally towed cars and trucks in a matter of seconds. The most notable one, was a stripper whose Civic got repoed. The guy couldnt catch her at work cuz the club she worked at had security guards watching the cars. The repo man just watched and waited till she got off then he followed her when she left. She stopped at a gas station and when she went in to pay, he made his move. He backed right up to it and was gone by the time she came running out side! Ten seconds tops! I was laughing my butt off. Lord knows what a car theif could do if he had that type of equipment.

I watched that episode, that was awesome! Pretty funny for us, not so much for the stripper though, I have a good idea on top of all the good ideas you guys have mentioned in this thread; with all the cameras, shaved doors, and sensors, if you have tinted windows, one good solution that would work only at night just because during the day it would be too hot, put a pitbull or rotty in the backseat! I would like to see the look on the suckers face that thinks hes successfully broken into your car, yet to see a dog to rip him a new face, that would be priceless!

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Kyle@Audio Obsession Sound

yeah but then all the blood and stuff you'd find the next day would definately be pricey....not to mention the sob would prolly get a lawyer and sue you, and even sadder....he'd prolly win

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I'm seriously loving this thread right now!!!

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Duane...

If you think you're confused, imagine how you feel. posted_image

Tow truck, Tow truck, Tow truck!

I worked with a guy as a Hook man repoing cars about 10 years ago in Phoenix.

Your car is firstcased out. So don't advertise your system going through your neighborhood Mister Boom Boom Boom. If I knew your schedule and I knew you had an alarm I would first cut your battery cable. 9 times out of 10 you won't have a battery back up siren.

If I wanted to get your car away from your house long enough to have the driver of the truck pull up, I would release your e-brake and roll the car down your driveway but, usually the driver would just back up to your car while I threw a chain and hook under your car and quickly rised it up as he pulled away, sometimes dragging your wheels partially down your drive. I had a harness on hooking myself to the truck so we could boogie. About a block away we would pull into a alley and properly secure your car and off we went.

We averaged about 7 cars a nite.

Now I imagine that if you weren't expecting your car to get repo'd that Hooking your car would be that much easier.

Plus I remember reading a response about the steering lock stopping you from steering the car. All I gota say is HA! If I had a separate key cylender and key to plug into under the dash, I can start the car and use a pipe to assist me in breaking the steering lock.

Just remember this! If someone wan't your car bad enough, I don't care what you do to keep it from happening, They will find a way to get it. All alarms do is keep honest people honest.

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(owner/installer)
Chase's Accessories
Ridgecrest, CA
in business since 92

i read a magazine article about a reformed car thief who said he gave the gone in 60 secs people all the technical ideas and they never paid him... i have one question, when they stole the ol school chevy... popping the glass on the fog light and apparently popped teh fuse ie sparks waht did that do? of all the things in the movie that made me wonder the most (well are angelina jolie's lips real makes me wonder too) was that supposed to kill the door trigger or something before they slimm jimmed the door because i have yet to see a door trigger tied into the fog lights. well it has been a while since i have seen the movie but i think that is how it goes

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Hey chasesaccessori, that all sounds very interesting but what would happen if the whole thing (you and your driver, presuming as an example) were caught on camera/ tape with the entire action being recorded? Let's say the licence plate of the tow truck and the entire "job" was recorded on tape, would that not be enough to get the thief and his driver stop the fun and spend some time in jail? (If not face more troubles from either the owner of the car and/or the police and more?)

Nowadays more and more people and buildings are
equipped with security cameras, and I personally have installed a few myself for security reasons with a page signal sent on alarm-trigger or masked area detects motion, to myself and whoever want it. Those who have them just love it.

misterjimbo, I think they were disabling the alarm by shorting out the flashing lights. I've heard rumors that this will defeat alarms, but flashing light outputs are always fused now. A lot of car thiefs are going the carjack route because it's so much easier.

Depending on where you live...I wouldn't put too much faith in the camera route. My wife's work had a videotape of someone stealing their camera and the cops wouldn't even come pick it up. They said it would be impossible to identify, apprehend and prosecute the criminal. I guess Las Vegas and Miami are the only cities with unlimited "CSI" funds.

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bzzzzttttt

markcars wrote:

Hey chasesaccessori, that all sounds very interesting but what would happen if the whole thing (you and your driver, presuming as an example) were caught on camera/ tape with the entire action being recorded? Let's say the licence plate of the tow truck and the entire "job" was recorded on tape, would that not be enough to get the thief and his driver stop the fun and spend some time in jail? (If not face more troubles from either the owner of the car and/or the police and more?)

Nowadays more and more people and buildings are
equipped with security cameras, and I personally have installed a few myself for security reasons with a page signal sent on alarm-trigger or masked area detects motion, to myself and whoever want it. Those who have them just love it.

As for us, (my friend and I) we had to notify the police what and where we were repoing each day. I would not mess with anyone's property while doing it either(camera). The police and repo men usually have a good report together. Because we notified the police of where we were, when the cops were called they were notified that it was a registered repo and no action would be taken. For my friends safety we removed the rear plate from the truck, always! In fact our friends at the police station suggested it to us.

If I was filmed, who cares! Like the before reply stated, most videos can't be used in court because of bad quality and is useless unless you know the person or the police have them on file.

You bring up an interesting point though that I forgot to mention. You never ropo in your own town. This helps with the recognition problem you hinted at. As for professional theifs', They're low lifes and dont care and are rarely out in puplic to be recongnized. The average everyday theif is someone you know or their friend. This I would put money on.

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(owner/installer)
Chase's Accessories
Ridgecrest, CA
in business since 92