Need advice from one shop to another

You read my mind!  I sat down to my computer planning on asking the very same questions, especially after passing a sign yesterday which advertised remote starters for $99.99! (Most Cars).  I often question how anyone could install a remote starter for the prices I see advertised. 

I have been installing remote starters for years, and even though I have only done installs for myself, friends & family, I have a good aptitude for installing and have done other similar types of work since I was a teenager (I'm now 42).  I also solder all my connections, and have never had a problem after the install which was caused by the wiring job.  Knowing how much the components cost, and how long it takes to do a good install, I am truly puzzled at the prices I see!  I assume some of the answer lies in shops who pull a "Bait and switch", adding on the cost of bypass kits, relays, etc., and perhaps others do use SkotchLocks & other quick connectors, but it still seems like a job that is worth more than the prices I see advertised.  It seems like working at McDonald's would be more profitable!

I would love to hear from others, particularly those in the business, how they price jobs and how many remote starters a a good installer should be able to do in a day, on average.

-Michael

I sell the Compustar units installed ( basic ) for $ 210 Canadian and I sell these all day long for this. Keyless for $ 40 and trunk for $ 15. Not every installer or shop can really gaurantee a job in a certain time. When you work with used vehicles, you have the unknown factor of if the car's been worked on before, if the wiring is all screwed up or if it's been in an accident. I just did a remote start on a 1998 Jeep GC Laredo as well on Thursday and I didn't have a door lock bypass for it and I used the 4 relays to do this and it took me just over 4 hours to do this vehicle. On the flip side, I did an Alero and I've done them in 3 hours flat, but this one in particular took me close to 7 hours because of a starter wire issue. I finally trouble shot the problem to a faulty starter wire.

In the end, if your installer's are "slow" then sit down and see why they are. What I've done in the past to speed things up is prep all my unit for the day's installation for various vehicles. If you know that your going to be doing a GM, Honda, Olds & a VW for the day, make sure that you prep all these before hand and it will make the installation go by way faster.

it's a tough situation..... there will always be shops ( especially the big chain stores ) who undersell their labour to make a sale, but also some shops undersell the product as well ( i was taught as a young lad in the biz that it's a poor salesman who has to sell on price).... i was in a store the other day and they had a specific model that we also sell on for $199.00 installed... My cost as an authorized DEI dealer is $134.00 for the product itself...and they sell it for $65.00 over my cost installed....  many other stores bring in their own branded cheapo units like the one Ravendarat above mentioned.... products branded for a specific retailer at a super low price.... these are the units you see advertised for $149 - $199 usually ( they cost around 40 bucks each dealer )... these examples are in CDN and i know the product is much cheaper down there in USD...

but as to why your installers take so long, i tend to suspect it's an unfamiliarity with the product or the install.... my first couple starter installs years ago took almost all day ( 4-5 hours ) yet now i do a Honda or Hyundai or GM truck in about an hour to an hour and a half..... jeff was very right in saying prep the job first...most installs i prewire and tape or loom on the bench beforehand and then just carry it over to the vehicle...also, what we do here whenever possible is have 2 guys do an install, one preps the vehicle while i prep the product and then he works under the hood while i work under the dash, then he "closes" ( wire ties everything and puts all the panels back on ) while i prep the product for the next car on the bench..... somewhat like an assembly line or an operating room......

i'd say it's just a case of getting comfortable with the products and the installs and everything will begin to flow smoothly.... how long does it take them to install a radio in a chev vehicle? it's very similar.. the first install will take an hour or more and the 10th will take 20 minutes......

just dont allow yourselves to get sucked into that low ball atmosphere or trying to compete with stores that whore out the product or their labour cheaply... be willing to charge more and justify to your customers why you do.....

im not an installer but one thing i noticed when shopping around to have a RS put in my wifes car is that many of the bigger place, best buy, ultimate electronics, etc. dont hook up all the wires. they simply hook up whats needed for the RS and door locks. therefore no domelight, no trunk, no horn honk, no starter disable ( orange wire on dei) etc.its  just the basic's if you want anything else hooked up its $30bucks each. also they charge a little bit more labor if a bypass is need and there is also usually about a $15 shop supply charge which is supposed to cover relays, extra wire, diodes, etc.

JD

Ravendarat wrote:

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I Dont charge for aditional relays, diodes, resistors etc. :)

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plus it makes for a far cleaner install because you cut all wiring as short as needed and remove the wiring not needed before you even get into the vehicle.... if you interconnect all bypass and data modules before you get into the vehicle you only have one or two wires to deal with in the car.....i cant count the # of times i've had to troubleshoot someone elses wiring and they have all the unused wiring jammed under the dash like spagetti....

as Shaughn said, putting your guys on a percentage of their billable time is a heck of a motivator..... i did that with some of my guys years back and found one of my junior installers doubled his wage almost overnight and one of my main guys dropped in salary almost 50%.... sure lets you know who's doing what..... i've always found paying anyone by the hour is a sure way to have the job take twice as long as it needs to, whether it's an installer, a painter, plumber, etc, etc.....

Ravendarat wrote:

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Shaun, over the last 6 months we have turned that around. Every single job has a 3 dollar shop supply charged and being I very rarley ever buy more than 200 dollars a month in shop supplies, it covers our bases. As to paying by the hour, it all depends on how it is relayed to the staff. I get paid strictly by the hour, yet I know its unacceptable for me to take 4 hours to do a 2000 cavalier. If it took me that long then I am obviously not doing my job. I also get paid a ten precent commision on top of my hourly wage so in reality I decide my bonus. The more jobs I do the more I make, but I still have the security of a base pay. Mabye if you want to give your guys some incentive but want to retain that hourly pay structure you look at a pay scale that reflects their productivity. Just a thought.

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arctic wrote:

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i should add that a quick, neat prep should only take minutes when you know your product and car... we have 3 installers at our shop and we're putting out 25-30 jobs a day depending on how busy it is. it's not boomerang business, either.

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25-30 jobs per day by 3 guys?  That means each guy does 8-10 jobs each.  Which means that they are either doing at LEAST one "job" (or more) per hour, or  working  more than an 8 hour day.  What constitutes a job?  Is it a remote start with bypass/door locks/headlights/etc?  Do you solder te connections? Are you guys robots?! LOL

I would love to know how to do 8-10 remote starts in a 8 hour day.  Admittedly, I don't install full-time, but I can't imagine that these numbers are realistic for a typical day's work.  Anybody else have thoughts on this?  There is quite a discrepancy between the opinions of the people posting on this topic...

All the points made above are both positive and negitive, though I dont own a shop or work at one (which would be nice) I do the alarms/starters on the side. I like to stick with one brand (presitge), beside never having an issue with them, I also came to memorize the wires and colors that attach to the brain itself which helps me speed up the process. Already knowing what wire does what is half the battle. By no means am I putting down anbody or trying to make myself look like a hero in any way but if I do 3 units a month I am lucky. To do a keyless/start on an average car it take me ~1.15 -1.30 hours, An alarm/keyless/start is about 3.45 - 4.15. Of course there are your snags. I just did a 02 impala alarm/trunk/keyless/start for my best friend and it took me ~5 hours due to quite a few snags, but it happens.  Price wise I made a couple dollars on him but very little. I charged him $200 for everything. And I still made profit. For me $22/hour is pretty good. So we both made out.

i think NowYaKnow pretty much nailed it with his posted install times.....

Keyless Entry: 45 min - 1.5 hours
Basic Remote Start: 1.5 - 2 hours
Remote Start w/ keyless: 1.5 - 2.5 hours
Remote Start/Alarm/Keyless: 2 - 3 hours

Add 45 minutes to an hour more for difficult cars.

for you Canadian guys like myself, in the winter, add 30 minutes for the inside to warm up before you start pulling plastic panels off..... we usually have car 2 warming up while we work on car 1, etc......

i think the bottom line here is that they are certainly doable at a relative profit if you dont try to compete with the shops who sell product at 5% over cost or who only bill their installers out  at 10 bucks an hour......

Well jeremy,

1) Im sure people will agree when on alot of the newer cars have the tach wire connected it starts inturrupting the electronic transmissions causing issues.

2) All vehicles need the hoodpins

3) soldering is always the more used and perferred way.

Im sure that there are plenty of expereanced installers out there that may be able to do some vehicles in an hour. Before you start with other people think about it you are not the only installer out there. It may take you 2 hours because of different equipment, or processes, think about it! Before you "doubt it"!

jeremyjerm wrote:

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im gonna add my 10 cents

remote starts are almost never just remote starts i would have to say that i do more rs alarms than anything.
2 hours is a good time to offer as a quote. and all you dudes doin them in an hour, do u solder, do you tach or voltage sense, do you do a hoodpin and a neutral safety

i doubt it

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hey fellas,

just my two cents, but incentive is everything... My boss is a helluva good dude, but he has his days. He kinda gets into gi joe mode and acts like ya outta be drippin sweat and almost having a heart attack. Then theres the other days that hes fine and everythings velvet. Point is, I make $10.00 an hour whether I do one install or fifteen. I am experienced and can be quick, but on days where Im like F&*# it, then why should I bust ass? I know it sounds negative, but it is what it is.

peace

Another $0.02:

It might seem as though paying someone by the hour removes the incentive to move quickly.  But it's important to remember that giving someone an incentive to do a lot of cars might make them more inclined to take shortcuts, which could  translate into a less careful job.  Of course that is a generalization, and doesn't apply to everyone equally, but it's not uncommon to trade speed for quality.  And of course, not all shortcuts are bad!  Just another way of looking at the both sides of the issue...

-Michael