Viper 791XV, '04 Ford F-350 w/6.0 diesel
Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Security and Convenience
Forum Discription: Car Alarms, Keyless Entries, Remote Starters, Immobilizer Bypasses, Sensors, Door Locks, Window Modules, Heated Mirrors, Heated Seats, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=47984
Printed Date: June 09, 2024 at 9:58 PM
Topic: Viper 791XV, '04 Ford F-350 w/6.0 diesel
Posted By: knucklehead
Subject: Viper 791XV, '04 Ford F-350 w/6.0 diesel
Date Posted: January 17, 2005 at 10:51 PM
I have searched your forums for the answer to this question and couldn't find it, so help me out. I had a Viper 791XV installed in my '04 Ford F-350 w/6.0 diesel and the installer put in a timer relay that I believe is conected to the blue wire on the satellite relay. I trust my installer, but he is unable to explain to me what the relay is for in a way that I can understand. He seems to be stuck in technical world and that's not helping me. After searching the web and finding nothing I ran across this site and the answers that are given here are far easier to understand. In fact I learned the answers to things I didn't even know I should've been asking.
Replies:
Posted By: Ravendarat
Date Posted: January 17, 2005 at 11:24 PM
The reason why he used a relay is this. On most diesel trucks there is a wire that sends a signal when the glow plugs are ready to fire the truck up. On you truck this wire does not exist so he needed to use a module that times the starting sequence to delay the starting of the truck until the engine is ready to fire.
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double-secret reverse-osmosis speaker-cone-induced high-level interference distortion, Its a killer
Posted By: knucklehead
Date Posted: January 17, 2005 at 11:46 PM
I appreciate your response, however the Ford's do have a wait-to-start light. In the older Ford's they used to have a light in the instrument cluster that actually said "wait to start," now they have a light that is affectionately called a pig tail or curly cue light. It resembles two cursive E's connected together. Is this wire unusable? Also I believe my installer was trying to tell me it had something to do with bypassing a zone while the remote start is operating . . . then he lost me. I know that the 6.0 diesels are rediculously computer controlled, so that may have something to do with it.
Posted By: gtchida
Date Posted: January 18, 2005 at 12:02 AM
Could be the ground while running when connected to a relay and sensors such as motion or impact/vibration, these sensors will be off during the remote start process otherwise you would have false alarms from the vibration of the truck running. Gary
Posted By: knucklehead
Date Posted: January 18, 2005 at 12:08 AM
Posted By: extreme1
Date Posted: January 18, 2005 at 1:46 AM
that light in the dash is turned on via computer data bus, it doesn't have a "wire" going to it per say, but the IP module recieves a signal from the computer to turn on the light for x seconds depending on engice temperature. SO in order to get any sort of wait to start delay we as installers have to install a pulse timer module.
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Shaughn Murley
Install Manager, Dealer Services
Visions Electronics
Red Deer, Alberta
Posted By: Ravendarat
Date Posted: January 18, 2005 at 2:37 AM
Ya, like I said, no usable wire for wait to start, so yo must use a pulse timer. Unfortunatly in these new vehicles just because there is a light, and it would make sense there was a wire to use, doesnt mean there IS gonna be a wire to use. I miss the old vehicles where things were simpler and were made of metal not plastic.
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double-secret reverse-osmosis speaker-cone-induced high-level interference distortion, Its a killer
Posted By: misterjimbo
Date Posted: January 18, 2005 at 7:09 AM
on some units (audiovox and poss. others) have a built in delay that you can program 12, 15, 20 seconds.
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Posted By: gus1
Date Posted: January 18, 2005 at 9:48 AM
DEI 611t will do the trick nicely on the new 6.0 PSD.
As the others have stated, the signal to the WTS light is on the databus, and is not usable at all to a remote starter.
Gus
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Wherever I go, that is where I end up......
Posted By: knucklehead
Date Posted: January 18, 2005 at 10:06 AM
Thank You all. Extreme1- that was a very concise and easy to understand answer. Just what I would hope for from an installer to a layman or customer. Ravendarat- Your first response confused me. Your second response actually answered the question of why I was confused. My reasoning was exactly what you explained in your second response, "if there is a light, there must be a wire, so why can't it be used?" So please be gentle on your customers when they ask, and remember one of us might actually be listening to what you have to say. Unfortunately for my installer I'm a nightmare customer. I'm MECP certified, but haven't touched an alarm or a stereo in over ten years, haven't kept-up with current technology, but still think I know a thing or two. In fact I don't even listen to music anymore and the only reminder I have of my install days is a Lanzar Opti 50C that I have in my garage. And your right about the "Good ole' days." When wires either had voltage or they didn't, and the only people who mentioned the term Data Bus were NASA engineers. If my Ford is any indication of how things are progressing, installers will need to have degrees in computer science and electrical engineering. Then you'll have to wear suits and ties.
Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: January 18, 2005 at 1:29 PM
Has anyone tried soldering onto the LED yet or am I the only one? ------------- Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.
Posted By: knucklehead
Date Posted: January 18, 2005 at 2:35 PM
Rob- did you actually solder the Viper's wait-to-start wire to the dash light itself? Was this on a 6.0 PSD? If so, has there been any problems with it? And did you use a diode?
Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: January 18, 2005 at 3:05 PM
I was installing a Compustar in the 04 F350 with the 6.0 diesel. IIRC the led is on the far left of the circuit board and you want to solder on the top side of it. Now I did not get it to work correctly and was working the problem when time just ran out on us (customer had to leave so we used the built in timer on the Compustar). The led gave us 6 volts when powered on and dropped to 1 volt when it was out. Whenever I touched my meter to this led, the led lit up to about 25% of it's normal brightness, the same thing when I attached the wait to start wire to the led. Even if I had a diode on this line, it would still do the same thing. I want another one of these vehicle in here to see if I can solve this issue. It makes sense in principal to do this, probably with the addition of a relay to the diode. If this can be made to work it most certainly would solve a whole pile of issues and save a couple of bucks on the install. Maybe Jeff will read this and comment on it, wait and see I guess.
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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.
Posted By: gus1
Date Posted: January 18, 2005 at 3:24 PM
I thought about doing this on a Dodge. The only concern I would have is isolation.... would the signal for the LED beenough to crank a mini relay?? It may, but it may not like seeing whatever is connected to the other side of the relay. What one could try is a solid state relay (transistor that will switch on and behave like a relay with the appropriate input). The "on" contact for it draws 3 or so mA, it is technically isolated.... could be used to switch a ground for the wait to start, and shouldn't throw the cluster circuitry out of whack. All the cluster will see is another semiconductor junction to drive, and the draw should be less than any relay.
Does thismake sense, or have been on the pipe too much lately?
Gus
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Wherever I go, that is where I end up......
Posted By: knucklehead
Date Posted: January 18, 2005 at 3:27 PM
Rob- PLEASE post back on this when you get another 6.0 in there. I truly would like to know how this turns out.
Posted By: kbouwman
Date Posted: January 22, 2005 at 9:09 AM
Rob-I have a 2005 F250 with a 6.0 diesel that I installed a crimestopper remote on last weekend. I had the IP in my hands but I couldn't figure out how to disconnect the wiring harnesses at the top. I didn't want to break it so I stopped for now. Is there any chance that a light sensitive transistor could be located near the wait to start led? This could be used to drive a relay and provide complete isolation. Once I am sure I know how to get inside the panel without breaking anything I want to experiment with this. I am currently using the built in 10 second delay but I am a bit anal and I would like to have the truck start as soon as it can and always wait as long as it needs.
Kevin
Posted By: knucklehead
Date Posted: January 26, 2005 at 10:30 AM
I posted a question about the install on my '04 F-350 earlier and got some fantastic respones, most notably from Ravendarat, extreme1, and gus1. Thank you. Now I have another question. When I arm or disarm the system the key in ignition chime sounds in sequence with the alarm chirps and the radio momentarily comes on and goes off. Is the normal?
Posted By: Big Dog
Date Posted: January 26, 2005 at 1:21 PM
This is usually the case when the BCM must be awakened before door locks will work.
So the answer is . . . . yes it's normal.
Posted By: knucklehead
Date Posted: January 26, 2005 at 1:29 PM
Big Dog wrote:
This is usually the case when the BCM must be awakened before door locks will work.
So the answer is . . . . yes it's normal.
Thank you. I hate to say it, but one quick not very well thought-out answer from an installer can make the rest of their work suspect. I am glad you guy's are here to help.
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