DEI Sidewinder in a 04 Mustang
Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Security and Convenience
Forum Discription: Car Alarms, Keyless Entries, Remote Starters, Immobilizer Bypasses, Sensors, Door Locks, Window Modules, Heated Mirrors, Heated Seats, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=56797
Printed Date: October 31, 2024 at 6:57 PM
Topic: DEI Sidewinder in a 04 Mustang
Posted By: Strykrincognito
Subject: DEI Sidewinder in a 04 Mustang
Date Posted: June 01, 2005 at 9:21 AM
I have recently purchased an 2004 Ford Mustang Std. Edition w/Auto Trans., and was looking to install my previously used DEI Sidewinder 6500ESP w/Clock-Temp module into it. I've already found the wiring schematics for the mustang here, however there seems to be a lot of '***'s in regards to the use of/bypass of features like the stock engine kill module, etc. Previously I installed the whole system into an older S-10, with no issue. However, considering that this is a reasonably new car (-10K miles), I'm concerned that the security in the Mustang may prove to be more problematic than I expect. Also, I know that many vehicles (like the GM units) require bypass modules to work around systems like the VATS resistor system, etc. SO... two questions: 1: Will I need a bypass/addtl. module for the 6500ESP? 2: Besides the simple wirespecs, anyone know of any issues? Of course, because I'm a consumer and not an installer, DEI generally isn't much help directly, I've had to fight tooth and nail for any suport at all from them. TIA!
Replies:
Posted By: auex
Date Posted: June 01, 2005 at 4:41 PM
1. Yes you will need a bypass.
2. No issues except maybe door triggers.
------------- Certified Security Specialist
Always check info with a digital multimeter.
I promise to be good.
Tell Darwin I sent you.
I've been sick lately, sorry I won't be on much.
Posted By: Strykrincognito
Date Posted: June 01, 2005 at 5:28 PM
auex]1 wrote:
Yes you will need a bypass. 2. No issues except maybe door triggers.
Okay, I need the bypass module, thanks. A question I have about that module is: 'Will this bypass module permanantly disable the transponder key system, or does it only come into effect during auto-start?' I called a few local installer shops, and they say they can get me a bypass module for about 65$, and that's it's reasonably easy to wire, however, how's the process for putting the transponder ring into/onto the steering column? Does it actually go inside the plastic panneling? I'm still thinking about installing it myself, I'm just curious if anyone has a one-to-one wiring colorchart for the 04 Mustang. As I mentioned, I have the wiring lists already, but I know that DEI has cheat-sheets that are available for their installers. TIA folks.
Posted By: auex
Date Posted: June 01, 2005 at 5:39 PM
No the bypass does not bypass the immobilizer permanently. It only turns on when the remote start is activated. Yes it goes inside the column shround. It isn't hard to install but is can be a pain to get the pellet placed correctly or you can do the easier route and get the universal but you lose a key in the box. Also DEI only provides vehicle wiring info, it is assumed that you know what you are doing and don't need a this wire goes to that wire guide.
Here is DEI's Info for your car.------------- Certified Security Specialist
Always check info with a digital multimeter.
I promise to be good.
Tell Darwin I sent you.
I've been sick lately, sorry I won't be on much.
Posted By: Strykrincognito
Date Posted: June 02, 2005 at 11:02 AM
auex]N wrote:
the bypass does not bypass the immobilizer permanently. It only turns on when the remote start is activated. Yes it goes inside the column shround. It isn't hard to install but is can be a pain to get the pellet placed correctly or you can do the easier route and get the universal but you lose a key in the box. Also DEI only provides vehicle wiring info, it is assumed that you know what you are doing and don't need a this wire goes to that wire guide.
Here is DEI's Info for your car.
I noticed in the documents about Diode's (1Amp) put inline with the door triggers/trunk, I'm assuming the usual Radiosmack special should work fine, yes? If so, the Sidewinder only has one wire for a (-) Negative door trigger input (H1/5 Green), however it seems that there are two seperate wires at the GEM, one for each door. Am I supposed to split the green to connect to both? Addtl, there is seperate notations in the wiring chart refering to a DirectFax Document for the diode wiring-- Not that I may need it, but just curious what it refers to. Thank you very much for the information, I believe after this conversation that I will likely take a swing at the underside of the dash and see how complicated things are. The local installers are offering 50$/hr @ 3hrs. min. install time; Personally I'd rather do it myself and soldier all the high-voltage connections. (I asked the local folks and they said generally they don't). I'm also thinking about investing in the DEI Window control module (up or up/dwn), however I don't know the cost for it at this time (or addtl. complexity, etc). Lets hope for the best right? :) Thx again.
Posted By: Strykrincognito
Date Posted: June 02, 2005 at 11:30 AM
**** Sorry for the double post, I found the notations here in the 'Diode' section of -12volt- here, which talks about paralleling two diodes by the anode end to the Alarm door trigger, then the Cathode end of each respective diode to each individual door trigger. (RTFWebsite right?) I'm assuming this is how I would do it. Otherwise, looking over the wiring diagrams that I have now, it most of this seems relatively clear except for the remote start system - Heating/AC controls: The wiring specs for the car state that there are three wires that go to the inition system for accesories: Blower, Airbag monitor, and Heat/AC controls. Obviously I won't touch the airbag (unless told otherwise), but would I just be powering the blower alone with the Orange Acc. wire from the Sattelite relay set, or do I need to power both the blower and the controls as well? Thanks!
Posted By: ken984
Date Posted: June 03, 2005 at 9:30 AM
You need to pay somebody to do it, with a new car this is not what you want to experiment on. But if you have to diy, yes power all the wires with seperate relays.
Good luck
edited for a misread on the original post
Posted By: Strykrincognito
Date Posted: June 06, 2005 at 4:17 PM
ken984 wrote:
You need to pay somebody to do it, with a new car this is not what you want to experiment on. But if you have to diy, yes power all the wires with seperate relays. Good luck edited for a misread on the original post
Considering I have completed a few installs myself, and I am (somewhat) familiar with this security system, it doesn't seem feasible to me to throw 250$ at an install that I could do myself. Inserting diodes is nothing, and general wiring is a snap. If I have to pull off some protective plastic covers, so be it. I guess I was just looking for input from another installer that might have run into this same issue on other '02-04 Mustangs. like I said, the rest of the wires are straight forward. If powering both wires is what I need to do, then that's fine, I'll wire up two relays; last thought is, of course, will the system drive an additional relay without issue? ..I really appreciate all the imput that I've received so far.
Posted By: Strykrincognito
Date Posted: June 13, 2005 at 7:52 AM
I purchased a "Peripherial" PATS Bypass kit for the Ford Securelock system, and so far have installed that device and dioded out the doors and trunk. Based on the wiring specs in the Bypass and the wires in my car (and after disconnecting the Securelock connector and watching my car try to start without a fuel pump) I knew I had the right connector for the most part. I wired it all up to spec, and theoretically configured it to 'record' the two keys that I have. However, following teh install instructions, when I put in the last key, and then applied ground to the module, the THEFT light wasn't supposed to blink (stating failure/problem). I'm going to have a non-PATS key made today to test my last theory, to see if it's getting confused with my key and the bypass at the same time. -- At this point I have not installed the remote starter yet, however, I have now investigated the underside of the dash; the install should be a breeze. Any pointers on the Peripherials bypass unit? TIA!
Posted By: OhioMike1101
Date Posted: June 13, 2005 at 8:06 AM
I never have good luck with the keyless Ford bypass modules. Our store stocks most Ford transponder keys and we use a 666u and just program an uncut key for the bypass. Works 100% of the time. With the keyless bypasses, everyone we have done, we either can't get it to program correctly or it loses programming and we see that car back about 2-3 times. IMHO, A 556u and a blank key are the way to go. You can buy the key from the dealer for $30 and program it yourself. Directions for programming are in your owners manual.
Posted By: Strykrincognito
Date Posted: June 20, 2005 at 6:01 PM
Just as an update, I did install the Peripherial TBFD1 into my Mustang, and programmed it to spec without issue. I was concerned that the unit that I purchased wasn't compatible (as the documentation only goes up to '02-'03), however after install it tested fine with a non-PATS key. Bypass completed. The Sidewinder high-voltage relay set for the ignition happens to have an additional relay to drive a second ignition wire, which, since the 'Stang doesn't have one, I rewired the relay so the Accessory circuit now drives it instead. All soldiered in. (whew) Next step is the door relay system. The Sidewinder seems to have a Positive locking output wire, and a Negative unlock wire; The Mustang uses the 3-Wire Positive Pulse system. Based on the documentation for the unit, I'm just going to have to wire in two relays (which I already have), one relay coil to 12v, and one to ground, then my unit should use each one to trigger it's respective door lock/unlock wire. Sound right? Tick, tick.... one wiring harness at a time. :)
Posted By: Strykrincognito
Date Posted: June 24, 2005 at 11:23 PM
Completed the Sidewinder 6500ESP install, and for the most part, it works great! Had to change the factory disarm trigger wire to run 'accessory' rather than just a trigger pulse (Menu 3-7 on the program feature) to run the Bypass module. Also, had to wire an additional relay into the starter sequence to power the third Accessory wire for the A/C compressor. Not a big deal. Found out that the 6500 could power the lock and unlock directly without the need for relays (tried the advice from a previous post - thx). Few things I was curious about though: After wireup, it seems that the unlock sequence is not cascaded like the Ford stock unit, I just hit the unlock button once and both locks unlock together. Personally, not a big deal, but just curious if anyone knows the trick to that. Also, I wired up the dome supervision light as spec'd, and it doesn't seem to trigger when I unlock the doors. I haven't gone through the config menus yet though, but if anyone has any ideas, I'd appreciate them. The stock remote still works as expected. Also, is there any use for. capability to activate the remnance of the stock alarm? I know the horn can be triggered by the 6500 if I want it to, but just curious if it was possible to sync the two systems together. oh, and BTW: When I looked for the Tach monitor wire, I tried the ORANGE / Yel wire that was listed in the wiring specs in another post in some other forum for an '04 Mustang off the Powertrain Module, and it did not give a tach reading; the 6500 detected nothing. I ended up probing and splicing into the coil pack connector, Pink/White I believe (2nd wire from left). Works fine. I tested the over-rev after Learning, and it stalled as expected. TIA!
Posted By: Strykrincognito
Date Posted: June 29, 2005 at 1:46 PM
Okay, signing off on this topic, this particular project is done for the most part. Whole unit is installed, thanks for all the help all who replied. End result: Full unit installed Controls all doors and trunk. (Note: Stepped door lock feature not operational anymore) Remote Starts perfectly, starter kill relay installed as well. All safeguard options work as expected.
Thanks again.
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