04 Ford F150, remote starters
Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Security and Convenience
Forum Discription: Car Alarms, Keyless Entries, Remote Starters, Immobilizer Bypasses, Sensors, Door Locks, Window Modules, Heated Mirrors, Heated Seats, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=64041
Printed Date: June 11, 2024 at 4:07 PM
Topic: 04 Ford F150, remote starters
Posted By: 925slave
Subject: 04 Ford F150, remote starters
Date Posted: October 08, 2005 at 1:19 PM
I am about to my wits end with these vehicles. I have been doing vehicle electronics installs for over 13 years and recently got into remote starters. I have put a few on now and am working with a set of identical Ford F150 trucks that I consider light duty but they have 4 doors and factory keyless entry. I have installed a Crimestopper RS-850 remote starter on both vehicles and the corresponding bypass module sold to me by my distributer. I should be able to make the units work without the bypass as long as the key is in the ignition barrel, so I am told. That did not work so I installed the bypass module and tried it with that connected, still same problem. The problem is this, I push the start button, the truck turns on until the security LED goes out, about 2-3 seconds, then it starts the truck. About 2 seconds after the truck starts and runs the security LED flashes 1 time and at the same time it flashes the truck shuts off. It does this 3 times before the starter resets. I first thought it was faulty equipment but I put the second unit on the other truck and it does the same thing. I am posting here only because of everything I have already tried from the suggestions of the Crimestopper technical joke line and from the tech at the distributer. I have tried Crimestoppers suggestion of leaving the headlights on for 8 minuites to "drain off excess battery voltage" which did not work, the other tech was a little more helpfull. He suggested adding the tach wire, the keysense wire, checking my ground, and not to use scotch locks or t-tap for my connections. I added the tach wire, added the keysense wire, moved my ground to a factory ground and removed my scotch lock connecters and used butt splices to make my ignition harness connections. I even run a dedicated 8 awg wire straight to the battery for my A+ feed. NOTHING has worked and I am about to give up. Please if anyone has had this problem or might be able to tell me something else to try I do not know what else to do. I have to be overlooking something but I can't figure it out or it is so simple I am making it hard. I have about 10 hours of labor in these now and 6 of that is troubleshooting. Thanks in advance to anyone with any help, Joey
Replies:
Posted By: mo12v
Date Posted: October 08, 2005 at 2:00 PM
If the truck will NOT stay running with the Key in the Ignition:
Security LED? Ford Dash Security Light or the Crimestopper LED??
Are you sure it has PATS or Transponder Key?
If so, are you SURE the ByPASS is powering up under Crank & Run?
Which Ignition wires are you powering up?
-------------
MO
Don't Learn from Others Mistakes
You Might Be the One That Knows.
Posted By: ziggyb222
Date Posted: October 08, 2005 at 2:19 PM
What bypass are you using? Are you using one with the loop that needs to be wrapped around the ignition barrel????
Posted By: KarTuneMan
Date Posted: October 08, 2005 at 2:51 PM
Can you start the truck with the key....then keep it running with the remote start? (take the key out) If so, check to see if your unit has accs. and Ign. outs working properly -------------
Posted By: 925slave
Date Posted: October 08, 2005 at 5:35 PM
mo12v, I am refering to the factory LED on the dash that blinks 1 time after the truck is running. Also, no I am not sure if the unit is PATS or transponder as I am new to this and am having to rely other peoples info. The bypass module is for a PATS system and is what my distributer sent me when I ordered. How can I find out what it is, it uses a big black key. ziggyb222, yes I am using a small module that has a red power wire, a black wire that goes to the out when running, and yes it has a loop that goes around the key cylinder. I have tried putting the ring on the back side and on the front side of the factory ring but no luck. KarTuneMan, I have not tried that as doing so would grind the started when the module engaged. It does not have the anti grind optin install. Thanks for any help given.
Posted By: mo12v
Date Posted: October 08, 2005 at 7:47 PM
Sounds like you have the Transponder Key.
As Kar TuneMan asked........Your answer sounds like there is NO Tach signal learned?? Or are you using Voltage Sense?
The engine should stay running when you press R/S Button while the engine is running by the Key. The starter should not Grind....... You should also be able to START vehicle with Remote Start with Key inserted in Ignition Switch. If not:
What wires do you have Powered Up when in Remote Start?? ------------- MO
Don't Learn from Others Mistakes
You Might Be the One That Knows.
Posted By: 925slave
Date Posted: October 08, 2005 at 8:05 PM
Thank you for trying to help and please be patient with me. The unit I am using is a smaert tachless unit which uses voltage sense but does have a tach input. I connected the tach wire on 1 truck to see if it would help but it did not. So 1 truck has the tach wire and 1 does not with the same problem. I followed the wiring diagram I found here but I have not thought about checking to see if the voltage drops on the ignition line or the accessory line, I will try that next. Also, no the vehicle will not stay running even with the key in the ignition.
Posted By: 78musicman
Date Posted: October 08, 2005 at 8:58 PM
This may be stupid answer, but did you reprogam unit to acept the tach from the tachless default.
-------------
colorado tap the rockies
Posted By: mo12v
Date Posted: October 08, 2005 at 9:20 PM
Vehicle with the TACH wire hooked up......
On Page 10 of your Install Manual:
Did you follow the TACH Finder Method??
Then did you PROGRAM for TACH?? Also is the GRAY Hood PIN wire hooked up or used???? ------------- MO
Don't Learn from Others Mistakes
You Might Be the One That Knows.
Posted By: 925slave
Date Posted: October 08, 2005 at 10:26 PM
I guess I have been at this one so long I am overlooking the simple and obvious solutions due to frustration. No, I did not know that the unit had to look for the tach snse and no I haven't installed the hood switch yet. I am going to wait a day or two, read through the manual again, regroup and try everybodys suggestions. I want to say thank you to everybody who has answered. I will let you know what happens.
Posted By: jlc73101
Date Posted: October 09, 2005 at 12:12 AM
Use 556UW red +12v,black ground,blue neg. status to the alarm,dont use the rest.
-------------
jlc73101
Posted By: sneakycyber
Date Posted: October 09, 2005 at 12:20 AM
I am a crime stopper trained installer. If you havent gotten it to work by monday feel free to call me at 419-333-0000 I can walk you through any trouble shooting.. Also if you call crimestopper tech support ask for lary he is their best installer/tech guy he was just here in sandusky ohio on thursday showing us new equipment for 05. Sorry your having so much trouble with the install I am sure I can help if you dont have it figured out yet. EDIT ps. We open at 10 am and close at 6
-------------
Posted By: ziggyb222
Date Posted: October 09, 2005 at 5:49 AM
I had the same exact problem you are describing with the dash led flashes once then the truck shuts off. I had to mess with that loop around the ignition cylinder for quite sometime to get it just right. It was a pain. But I got it to work. Bypasskit.com offers a PKF3 that bypasses through the databus. There is no loop to mess with on that one.. Hope this helps
Posted By: extreme1
Date Posted: October 09, 2005 at 9:32 AM
ziggyb222 wrote:
I had the same exact problem you are describing with the dash led flashes once then the truck shuts off. I had to mess with that loop around the ignition cylinder for quite sometime to get it just right. It was a pain. But I got it to work. Bypasskit.com offers a PKF3 that bypasses through the databus. There is no loop to mess with on that one.. Hope this helps
it's not databus but does hardwire to the PATS harness.
These 04 up F-150's are easier than the previous generation to install starters on now. less wiring at the ignition harness. ------------- Shaughn Murley
Install Manager, Dealer Services
Visions Electronics
Red Deer, Alberta
Posted By: iskidoo
Date Posted: October 09, 2005 at 11:38 AM
What brand/model bypass units are you using. Are you using the keysensing shutoff circuit in the bypass so that when your Igniton key is in the cylinder, the computer doesn't see 2 keys? If it sees 2 keys at the same time it will cause a problem. If you are trying to remote start just using the regular key in the barrel, temporarily disconnect the bypass and then try and see if it stays running. Unplugging the little plug with the red and black wire is all you need to disconnect. Post back your results.
-------------
Steve G
Posted By: 925slave
Date Posted: October 15, 2005 at 10:11 AM
Ok,here is an update. I spoke with a tech from Crimestopper the other day. He said the only thing different is he had a Red w/ Gray wire for the starter and my info. said Red w/ light blue. He said to try the other starter wire? I was confused as I could not find another red wire for the starter in the ignition harness so maybe it is the same wire since it does look like gray instead of light blue depending on the light. Also, why would the vehicle start and stay running for 2 seconds if I had the wrong starter wire? Anyway, he mentioned the tach sense wire again as many here have said. I connected the LED and programming switch to the unit and the tach wire to what I thought was a good place. My manual said to use any wire on the fuel injectors or ignition coil as long as it is not RED for the tach sense Does anybody know a good place to pick this up as neither one of these seem to work. Does anyone know if the LED on the RS850 is to be on constant? Mine is, and it will not go into any of the programmable menus like tach sense or tach program. I was told there is a tach wire in the kick panel but cannot find any documentation to support that info. Any help would be appreciated.
Posted By: iskidoo
Date Posted: October 15, 2005 at 10:29 AM
iskidoo wrote:
What brand/model bypass units are you using. Are you using the keysensing shutoff circuit in the bypass so that when your Igniton key is in the cylinder, the computer doesn't see 2 keys? If it sees 2 keys at the same time it will cause a problem. If you are trying to remote start just using the regular key in the barrel, temporarily disconnect the bypass and then try and see if it stays running. Unplugging the little plug with the red and black wire is all you need to disconnect. Post back your results.
Did you do any of this? ------------- Steve G
Posted By: 925slave
Date Posted: October 15, 2005 at 1:11 PM
I am using the module that I got from Santa Fe Distributing when I called and ordered everything. I think it is a TB5 maybe. It has a red, black, and blue wire on one connector and then the other connector is where the cylinder ring plugs in. I can program the module with 2 keys and when I try to start the vehicle the ign. turns on and the factory security LED on the dash will come on and then go off before it starts, just like with the key. The vehicle starts and runs for 2 seconds and then it dies as soon as the LED flashes on the dash. I have tried relocating the ring to the front side of the factory ring with no success and I have tried unplugging the red, black, and blue connector with a key in the ign. With a key in the ign. I still have the same problem. I have tried connecting the keysense wire and numerous other suggestions but I just can't figure it out. I hate to but I may have to give up and send these 2 and my other customers I have already lined up to another shop and not do anymore as they seem to be a major troubleshooting hassle.
Posted By: sneakycyber
Date Posted: October 15, 2005 at 2:59 PM
Man I hate to see you have to give up  . If the vehicle shuts down with the key in the ignittion theres something your forgetting  . Have you programmed tach and everything? All else fails START over from scratch and give it another go. this usually helps ALOt. Its better to start from scratch then to keep trying to find what you missed. Good luck I hope you get it, I know how frustrating it can be  . -------------
Posted By: iskidoo
Date Posted: October 15, 2005 at 3:03 PM
Have you tried using tach finder mode on the RS-850 to insure you are finding a valid tach. The DEI wire chart may give you directions to find the tach but the Crimestopper units may need a bit different signal.
-------------
Steve G
Posted By: iskidoo
Date Posted: October 15, 2005 at 3:09 PM
Also try using the key in ignition(with no bypass hooked up), remote start it but as soon as it remote starts turn the key to run. I'm wondering if you could have the accesory and Ignition outputs of the remote start units reversed?
-------------
Steve G
Posted By: kustomcarz
Date Posted: October 15, 2005 at 4:11 PM
you need to do the factory disarm, if it has the keyless entry stock then it has a factory starter kill so try using the disarm on the alarm or if it is a negative disarm trygrounding it out .
-------------
No matter what you do to a civic, it's still a civic...
Posted By: 925slave
Date Posted: October 15, 2005 at 7:09 PM
kustomcarz, you may have the answer and I hope you do. My RS-850 has an output to disarm a OEM alarm but I cannot find documentation here or any other place that tells me what wire to connect it to and were it is located. If anyone has connected this wire or knows where I can find the info. I am starting to get a little hope as this makes sense. I also read something about using all 4 door triggers because the BCM shuts down? Do I need to also connect the door triggers? If so what input would that be my manual does not account for door triggers. Thanks to everybody that is helping me as I struggle with these.
Posted By: JWorm
Date Posted: October 15, 2005 at 7:21 PM
kustomcarz wrote:
you need to do the factory disarm, if it has the keyless entry stock then it has a factory starter kill so try using the disarm on the alarm or if it is a negative disarm trygrounding it out .
The factory disarm has nothing to do with the vehicle not remote starting if the factory alarm (if equipped) is not armed.
925slave, I'm going to suggest a few things to do when installing remote starters on vehicles with transponder keys until you get more comfortable doing them and know the cars more.
Install the remote start without installing the bypass module. You can pre-wire the unit and connect the power wires of the bypass module, just don't connect any part of the bypass unit to the vehicle. Learn the tach signal of the car to the remote start unit. Then attempt to remote start the vehicle with a key in the ignition cylinder and in the off position. If it starts correctly, you know you have the power/ignition wires hooked up correctly, and you also know you have a good tach signal. At this point you can install your bypass module and program it as needed. Then if you try to remote start the vehicle and it doesn't start, you know the problem is with the bypass unit and not with the rest of the install.
In your original post you mentioned you could not get the truck to remote start with a key in the cylinder. This means you might not have the correct ignition/accessory wires hooked up. You should be using the following:
12volts lt. GREEN/ purple (20A)
Starter RED / lt. blue
Ignition dk. blue/lt. green
Accessory BLACK/ lt. green
Those wire are fairly skinny compared to what cars had a few years back.
That truck has a lot of other wires in the same harness that are similar sizes and colors. Make sure you have the correct wires. Are you using a multimeter or test light to test wires?
The other likely possible reason the truck won't stay running is a bad tach signal. I always use fuel injector wires on that truck and it works fine with the units I use.
The 2004+ F150 is very picky about placement of a transponder ring.
I always use a PKU-F2 from bypasskit.com with a "small" ring seen here. The ring sticks to the metal on the front of the key cylinder. This setup works perfect, unlike a lot of other units/methods that I have seen that don't work when its really cold out.
These trucks are not that hard. Keep trying and you'll be able to get them to work. Also, keep reading as much as you can at sites like this and you will learn a lot about the characteristics of different vehicles
Posted By: JWorm
Date Posted: October 15, 2005 at 7:24 PM
If you are doing a remote start without an alarm you don't have to worry about the door triggers.
Also, the 2004 and newer F150 does not come with a factory alarm, so don't go looking for any disarm wire because you won't find one.
Posted By: 925slave
Date Posted: October 22, 2005 at 5:01 PM
OK, this is probably going to be the last post from me on this topic. I tried 1 last effort and I failed again. This time I removed everything from the vehicle and started over with a little hope. I connected the 2 power wires, starter, ignition, accessory and ground, nothing else. This looks like the bare minimum for the unit to work. I put a key in the ignition and pressed the button with the same result as before. The truck turns on, the factory security LED came on and then went off, the vehicle started and run for 2 seconds then the unit clicked again and shut off. I tried to do the tach signal but I had 14volts on the line and the unit did not recognize it so I figured I didn't do it right. So, to make a long story short, I failed and gave up. The whole unit has been removed and now I have to send everyone I had lined up to someone who knows how to put one in. I now have 4 brand new Crimestopper RS-850 remote starters for sale along with bypass modules for a 06 Ford Ecape, 05 Chevy 1500, and a 02 Toyota Camary. I also have 2 used units with the bypass modules for 2, 04 F150s but I think 1 does not work right as it will longer try to start the vehicle, or maybe it is just me. If interested please bypass this post as not to clutter it and email me direct for pricing at 925slave@bellsouth.net Thanks to everyone who has tried to help but if it can happen, it will with me.
|