Vanworks Car Audio Laconia, N.H.

I had a Viper 160XV remote starter installed in a 98 Legacy Wagon at this place and I thought the salesman on the phone wasn't very talkative and didn't offer much information.
I was leary, but I still had them do the job since other family had work done there and the have been around for a long time.
At the end of the job when I was paying for it he pointed out this is how to start, stop, lock and unlock, and the aux button wasn't connected to anything. I asked about hooking the aux function to something and he said I need to use a relay, which I agree.
After the installation I was a good little boy and read the owners manual and found that the starter anti-grind, LED, and the momentary switch had not been installed.
I called Vanworks and talked with the same person I spoke with before. He says that the anti-grind is an additional $25 to install, they do not drill into cars to install the LED's, and the button is for programming only and he didn't wan't anyone messing with his programming.
I was then asking him why he didn't explain this to me since it is documented in the owners manual. His reply was "I do (I don't remember how many) installations every day and if i explained this to all of my customers I wouldn't get anything done." Not his exact quote, but I paint the right picture.
I tried to explain to him that this is customer service, but I don't think he got it.
The factory alarm (Code Alarm as far as I can tell) is still installed and I also asked about how it will work with it and the remote lock. This man said he saw a disarm position open, but there was nothing in it. I didn't question it at the time, but how hard would it have been to enable that with the remote starter?
Also, I learned from the Subaru dealership (where I stopped for wiring diagrams) that installing remote starters is not recommended by Subaru since some installers hack the installation by just powering the coil. Now I am really concerned.

I should have installed the damn thing myself.

Before I really bitch about this place, is not installing the extra goodies like the factory disarm, anti-grind, LED and the button common in your industry, or is this guy lazy/greedy?

Thanks

Jason

I failed to mention that when I called him he agree to give me the led, button and the wiring to go with it which he did later that day.

Jason

if the starter kill was not wired in then he's right... you dont need the LED or programming switch at all.... i take them out and throw them in a box here as well..... we charge extra for all the "extras" like factory disarm/rearm, keyless, etc, etc.... but we discuss with the customer what he "needs" and ask what he wants before the install, not after.....

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Kevin Gerry
Certified Electronics Technician
MECP First Class Installer

Owner/Installer
Classic Car Audio
since 1979

That's a 10 - 4...........
Discuss with the Customer first......
I toss Items that is really not needed for customer ( except to confuse them ).
You don't need Anti-Grind if the unit Starts & Runs fine.
As for Programming.............
I program what is needed, if it is added, and if the Customer chooses to change the Programming & mess it up, I let it happen 1 time, then I charge the Customer for being ( shall we say ) ignorant???

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MO

Don't Learn from Others Mistakes
You Might Be the One That Knows.

Included in the basic installed price at most shops is remote start. Any factory anti theft bypasses, keyless entry, rear defrost, trunk release, window control, starter kill, etc. features that the unit is capable of is an extra. Most customers will read what it can do, but fail to notice that "these are optional features that can be done at installation". It is also up to the salesperson to be on top of their product knowledge, and sell these extra features properly.

Gus


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Wherever I go, that is where I end up......

mo12v] wrote:

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ou don't need Anti-Grind if the unit Starts & Runs fine.

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So, if it doesn't start and run fine you install the anti-grind?

His communication and sales skills are definitely lacking, but it sounds like the work that was done was consistent with the industry. I will report back when I find out if he wired the ignition correctly.

Sooo, the LED in effect displays the status of the starter cut out, does the button do anything other than programming such as valet?
If the system was locked with the remote and someone tries to start the vehicle without unlocking it, does the 160 not allow the vehicle to start?
Also, where can I find programming info on this unit?

Jason

mo12v] wrote:

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ou don't need Anti-Grind if the unit Starts & Runs fine.

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dont know that i follow that logic... the anti-grind is a feature that allows the customer to not accidently grind the starter on a vehicle that is already running under RS... it doesnt have anything to do with whether it starts and runs fine.....

wetchicken,  as a personal observation... if you thought your sales guys people skills were lacking before, just wait till you have to call him and tell him that you reprogrammed the unit and now you cant get it working properly and can he redo it for you.....

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Kevin Gerry
Certified Electronics Technician
MECP First Class Installer

Owner/Installer
Classic Car Audio
since 1979

kgerry wrote:

---

..just wait till you have to call him and tell him that you reprogrammed the unit and now you cant get it working properly and can he redo it for you.....

---

Heh, I have already thought of that.
<Ring> Hello?
Hi, I got the LED and switch from you after you installed my RS, and I screwed up the programming.
<click>
I Would exhaust all other options before I called him for that. Even then I would check other places first.

I figure if I can program in BASIC, html, php, etc and can pass the highest class ham radio license. I hope I can tell if I am getting in over my head with this programming before I do it.

[QUOTE=mo12v]
You don't need Anti-Grind if the unit Starts & Runs fine.
[QUOTE]

That does sound STUPID............
I need another job..............

-------------
MO

Don't Learn from Others Mistakes
You Might Be the One That Knows.

wetchicken, another professional installer (north of boston) chiming in here.

--Most of the cost of the remote starter is in the labor.

Many remote starters offer such extra features as starter kill, anti-grind, keyless entry, trunk release, panic, turing on the domelight when you unlock, and so forth.

It is reasonable that you would not get those features as part of a basic, entry-priced install, even though the remote starter itself may be capable of doing those things.

However, if the dealer is smart enough, he's going to offer you those features, at an extra cost. I upsell customers all the time----I get more money of course, and they are happier with their car.

While it is hard, especially when a store is busy, so take the time to explain each and every feature to each and every customer------a retailer is throwing money away if they don't at least offer you something that would make your car work better.

--The LED is for the installer to use during programming, and also serves to warn people that your starter kill is activated (or possibly fool them into thinking you have an alarm).

--The momentary switch is for programming features, adding replacement remotes, and also for you to defeat the starter kill if the remote should be lost or broken.

--Typically, if there is no starter kill installed, the LED and switch would not get mounted------they confuse the average customer, and many people don't want holes drilled in their new car.

However, I do zip-tie the programming switch in an inconspicuous, but easy-to-access location like the fusebox. Makes it far easier for the times when I have to re-program something for a customer, or replace his remote------obviously I don't want to have to take the car apart twice.

--About the Subaru dealer's comment:

Many car dealers know a lot less about automotive electronics than they care to admit, they often get confused when cars some in with complex electrical issues, and many times they react by just arbitarily blaming any aftermarket accessory they can find.

On the other hand, there definitely are poor installations that do cause problems.

But if the system is installed properly by a skilled installer, there is no reason to have any trouble.

--Anti-grind: Again, this is one of the optional features. But if you are forgetful and are prone to moving the key to the start position even after the engine is running, it is a nice thing.

BOTTOM LINE:

I don't think the shop actually did anything wrong.

But if they took a moment to ask you questions and listen to your answers......... you probably would have opted for some of those extra features...........the shop would have made more money and you would have been satisfied.

WHAT I WOULD HAVE DONE:

While I don't connect all those features on every install for free, I don't like unhappy customers.

As long as you weren't yelling at me or calling me names or anything, I probably would have just connected the features you want, not charged you, apologized for the miscommunication, and sent you on your way, hoping you (or your friends) would be back.

Again, I wouldn't feel obligated to do those things for free.........but I think it would be the smart thing for me to do............. at the retailer I work for, we believe in taking care of people and giving them good customer service. In the long run, I'd rather hand out $50 in free features than have someone leave upset......... but many retailers (in all different kinds of businesses) probably do not see it that way.

wetchicken, another professional installer (north of boston) chiming in here.

--Most of the cost of the remote starter is in the labor.

Many remote starters offer such extra features as starter kill, anti-grind, keyless entry, trunk release, panic, turing on the domelight when you unlock, and so forth.

It is reasonable that you would not get those features as part of a basic, entry-priced install, even though the remote starter itself may be capable of doing those things.

However, if the dealer is smart enough, he's going to offer you those features, at an extra cost. I upsell customers all the time----I get more money of course, and they are happier with their car.

While it is hard, especially when a store is busy, so take the time to explain each and every feature to each and every customer------a retailer is throwing money away if they don't at least offer you something that would make your car work better.

--The LED is for the installer to use during programming, and also serves to warn people that your starter kill is activated (or possibly fool them into thinking you have an alarm).

--The momentary switch is for programming features, adding replacement remotes, and also for you to defeat the starter kill if the remote should be lost or broken.

--Typically, if there is no starter kill installed, the LED and switch would not get mounted------they confuse the average customer, and many people don't want holes drilled in their new car.

However, I do zip-tie the programming switch in an inconspicuous, but easy-to-access location like the fusebox. Makes it far easier for the times when I have to re-program something for a customer, or replace his remote------obviously I don't want to have to take the car apart twice.

--About the Subaru dealer's comment:

Many car dealers know a lot less about automotive electronics than they care to admit, they often get confused when cars some in with complex electrical issues, and many times they react by just arbitarily blaming any aftermarket accessory they can find.

On the other hand, there definitely are poor installations that do cause problems.

But if the system is installed properly by a skilled installer, there is no reason to have any trouble.

--Anti-grind: Again, this is one of the optional features. But if you are forgetful and are prone to moving the key to the start position even after the engine is running, it is a nice thing.

BOTTOM LINE:

I don't think the shop actually did anything wrong.

But if they took a moment to ask you questions and listen to your answers......... you probably would have opted for some of those extra features...........the shop would have made more money and you would have been satisfied.

WHAT I WOULD HAVE DONE:

While I don't connect all those features on every install for free, I don't like unhappy customers.

As long as you weren't yelling at me or calling me names or anything, I probably would have just connected the features you want, not charged you, apologized for the miscommunication, and sent you on your way, hoping you (or your friends) would be back.

Again, I wouldn't feel obligated to do those things for free.........but I think it would be the smart thing for me to do............. at the retailer I work for, we believe in taking care of people and giving them good customer service. In the long run, I'd rather hand out $50 in free features than have someone leave upset......... but many retailers (in all different kinds of businesses) probably do not see it that way.

Chris Luongo wrote:

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However, if the dealer is smart enough, he's going to offer you those features, at an extra cost. I upsell customers all the time----I get more money of course, and they are happier with their car.

---

This is really all that I wanted from them was customer service and all the features that I would have said yes to during the upsell.

Chris Luongo wrote:

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I don't think the shop actually did anything wrong.

---

As far as the installation goes time will tell. As far as the sale itself goes, I think it was a poor execution and made that part of the deal sour.

Chris Luongo wrote:

---

But if they took a moment to ask you questions and listen to your answers......... you probably would have opted for some of those extra features...........the shop would have made more money and you would have been satisfied.

---

I didn't know about the extra features until I read the owners manual.

Chris Luongo wrote:

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WHAT I WOULD HAVE DONE:

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You and I have the same feeling about serving the customer to make them happy. Every customer has friends, and the strongest advertising power is word of mouth.

I wasn't expecting anything for free, and I would have paid for them without question.
When I called him back, I didn't call him names, but I did raise my voice a little because he wasn't listening to me. He didn't even offer to make another appointment to install those items.

Which shop do you work at? If it isn't too far (which north of Boston shold be reasonable), I would like to give you my business.

Jason

SCORE!! At least you seem to be getting the correct information on here... and what sounds to be better more informative customer service from someone you are not even a customer of yet...  Thats a good thing...

We offer AstroFlex remote starters... We always make the customer aware that if we need to bypass a security system that can cost anywhere between $30 and $90 (Depending on vehicle)... Locks are always an additional $30 at the time of installation unless its data like new Gm vehicles or if its after the install and they want 'em added its $45... If you want other additional features with the keyless entry at the time of the install like horn alert, trunk pop, defrost, or dome light those are $15 each at the time of the install, and $30 each after...

We ALWAYS make sure to disarm the factory alarm with our remote control and when applicable make it rearm with Our Astro Remote Starter remote. Theres nothing more annyoing then getting out of a restraunt after a nice meal with your friends or family and hearing someones annoying car alarm going off because it wasn't disarmed by the installer... That disarm is something we ALWAYS include for free... 99 times out of 100 its a one wire hook up.

I will also take a customer outside to their vehicle and personally show them how to use their starter... I don't care if its a guy in his 30's who "knows it all" or a lil old lady that just wants her car to be warm when its -10 outside... Everyone gets the same treatment... You don't leave until you're familiar with your new piece... If you don't ask me a question that you might be confused about... then thats your fault... But I always tell them to read the owners manual, if they still are unsure call us or stop back by and one of us would be glad to help them...

Wetchicken... it almost sounds to me like they just wanted your $$$? maybe i'm wrong? and i've done maybe 10 suburus over the past 2 years with no issues and or problems... They're one of the easiest vehicles on the road to do! He should go good for you! 

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you know wetchicken... i'm going to pipe up for the defense..... i have lost more potential customers than i can count by trying to explain and upsell them on features...... they come in wanting to spend $250 (hypothetically)... you explain all the cool things this $249 unit is capable of doing... they decide they want this and this and this and the price you end up quoting them is $400.....    they go home, they sleep on it, decide thats more than they want to spend and decide to go with the unit someone else quoted them $249 on, because thats what they can afford.....

people are very fickle creatures... you have to be careful to make sure you dont upsell yourself right out of a sale....

i always give them a product brochure and sent them away for a while to read it... it explains all the features of the various models and it's up to the customer to ask for these features to be included in the install.......

your post doesnt seem to be as much about any flaw of the product or install as much as it seems to be "they didnt read my mind and anticipate everything i might have wanted"........    why not just go back and talk with the store.... you might be surprised that they are more than willing to take care of you......

-------------
Kevin Gerry
Certified Electronics Technician
MECP First Class Installer

Owner/Installer
Classic Car Audio
since 1979

kgerry wrote:

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why not just go back and talk with the store....

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I did call and I was pleasant (until he wouldn't listen to me), but his attitude really turned me off. I told him that these items weren't installed and he explained it was extra money. Fine with me so far. When he told me that he doesn't have time to tell the customers about the product, I was no longer interested in his shop. What else was he not going to tell me about?
I would rather work on it myself and screw it up or have someone with the right attitude do the work.

If he (or you) was trying to not oversell, maybe starting with:
Salesman: "Are there any specific features you are looking for in this remote starter?"
Customer: "I didn't know there were any."
Salesman explains features.
-OR-
Customer: "No, just the basic system."
This allows the cutomer to have some control in this instance and will make them more comfortable. Have you tried this type of approach?

Jason

err.. ahh....uhhmmm.... yes                      i think in the thousand plus remote starters i have sold over the years i might have tried this once or twice   LOL

i am just playing devils advocate and saying they may not want to pump you on all the upsell features for fear of losing the sale..... but now you have heard both sides of the coin from guys in the biz.... hopefully this puts the issue to rest for you.....

-------------
Kevin Gerry
Certified Electronics Technician
MECP First Class Installer

Owner/Installer
Classic Car Audio
since 1979