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Viper 791xv Remote Start Fail

Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Security and Convenience
Forum Discription: Car Alarms, Keyless Entries, Remote Starters, Immobilizer Bypasses, Sensors, Door Locks, Window Modules, Heated Mirrors, Heated Seats, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=75331
Printed Date: March 29, 2024 at 12:19 AM


Topic: Viper 791xv Remote Start Fail

Posted By: pracy
Subject: Viper 791xv Remote Start Fail
Date Posted: March 29, 2006 at 4:20 PM

Hello all,

I have just installed a Viper 791xv alarm system into my aussie 1999 WRX. sedan.   I have installed 791xv with remote start, Backup Batt and Microwave sensor....

Now it took me a while to find the correct TACH wire at the ECU, I have now found this wire and the light (LED) turns solid quickly when doing the 'learn' procedure.. I then shut off the car..

When i attempt to use the remote start, the remote beeps and the car get ready to start. The starter engages for maybe 0.5 - 1 sec and then nothing happens, the car just sits and power is switched back off. It never gets to start as the starter only enages for split second...

Some points;

-I have the 556U installed to bypass the standard immobiliser. I am using method 2, in which the antenna is cut off the 556U and the standard 2 wire antenna is used.  Does this method work?

-I have the shock sensor and microwave coupled together on the multiplexed input.

-I removed the wires from the shock and microwave and the remote still fails.

-After wirring the thick gauge satilite loom to either side of the starter wire, i cut the original starter wire in between. It didn't say to do this but i wasn't sure how the immob would work without cutting this wire. I have since rejoined this wire temp, the remote starter still failed.

-I have tried switching the unit to 'Voltage sense' instead of TACH and it still fails.

-Tried turning off the 'Anti-Grind' also without good results..

-I didn't need to use any relay yet as I havn't add any points of immob yet. Should there be relays used in a standard install of this alarm. At the starter maybe?

Can someone please suggest some testing points and maybe some steps to go through...

Would be greatly appreciated

pracy



-------------
Hers- 99' Silver WRX Sedan -3" xForce stainless turbo back + GFB BOF
His- 82 XE 351c 300+KW



Replies:

Posted By: matt zorn
Date Posted: March 29, 2006 at 4:54 PM
A simple way to understand a DEI piece is read the manual.
You can do a rem start shut down diagnostic on everyone one of their units. I am guessin that your brake wire is the problem.. possibly the tach. Tach in a WRX is lt/GREEN/ black @ the ecu. 2nd plug from the bottom, First pin, middle row. (ive done a few WRX's)

Since you may not have the manual available... Shut down Diagnostic is as follows:

Push Programming button in and hold.
Turn key ON then Off
Release Button
Push button 1 time then release.
Count the flashes on the LED.

1 = timed out
2 = over-rev
3 = low or no rpm
4 = transmitter or optional shut down (blue/white on brain)
5 = nuthing.. there is no 5
6 = negative shut down or positive shut down (hood or brake)
7 = nuetral safety shut down
8 = wait to start timed out.

I have been installing DEI for over 10 years, and trained over 100 installers on DEI,and I have found that the unit is RARELY defective or problem-matic.
99% of the time its the install, not the unit.

good luck

MAtt




Posted By: pracy
Date Posted: March 29, 2006 at 5:03 PM

thankyou for the fast great reply!!

I have the manual, and followed it as good as I could. I also doubt the unit is defective.

I would imagine its the install and only a small problem, I hope.

I found the tach on the Black loom, light green wire. Not sure if it had a black trace though. Justy plain green. Still the tach learn's as the LED goes solid after holding the valet button.

Would the LED go solid if it was the wrong tach wire?

I didn't think of the remote shutdown Diagnostic because i hadn't successfully got it to remote start yet. I thought these Diagnostics would only be for failed remote starts, which i have but i havn't got a full start up yet.

except for the key, which starts fine.

Will i still get a Diagnostic read out even if it hasn't started properly yet?

thankyou!!!



-------------
Hers- 99' Silver WRX Sedan -3" xForce stainless turbo back + GFB BOF
His- 82 XE 351c 300+KW




Posted By: pracy
Date Posted: March 29, 2006 at 5:11 PM

also does the standard installation need a relay in the starter circuits anywhere?

I installed the thick gauge wires (satilite loom) and cut the original starter wire... Sound correct?

I havn't installed any relay as the manual didn't mention any... am i missing a relay or something?

cheers



-------------
Hers- 99' Silver WRX Sedan -3" xForce stainless turbo back + GFB BOF
His- 82 XE 351c 300+KW




Posted By: pracy
Date Posted: March 29, 2006 at 5:18 PM

Matt, can you please point out the tach wire. Just incase I got it wrong.

(though it seems to learn fine)

posted_image



-------------
Hers- 99' Silver WRX Sedan -3" xForce stainless turbo back + GFB BOF
His- 82 XE 351c 300+KW




Posted By: pracy
Date Posted: March 29, 2006 at 5:20 PM

I wish this place had an edit button!!

cheers

https://users.tpg.com.au/mpracy/P3260010.JPG

https://users.tpg.com.au/mpracy/P3260011.JPG



-------------
Hers- 99' Silver WRX Sedan -3" xForce stainless turbo back + GFB BOF
His- 82 XE 351c 300+KW




Posted By: Twelvoltz
Date Posted: March 29, 2006 at 5:26 PM
Your installation to the starter wire sounds correct, trusting you have the purple wire running to the starter output side and the green to the key side of the circuit, all should be fine. If your starter is cranking over at all, then you have these wires correct.

Have you tried disconnecting the wire you have running to the tachometer and set it to voltage sensing(feature 3-2)? Make sure you set it to voltage check level low as well(feature 3-6), and set your crank time to atleast .8 seconds(feature 3-5).

Have you tried removing the connections for the immobilizer bypass and leaving a known working key in the ignition cylinder in the off position? The techsheet I just looked at does not list a transponder requirement for either the US or UK versions of the 99 Impreza, so these are just suggestions for something else to try.

Keep us posted.





Posted By: JWorm
Date Posted: March 29, 2006 at 5:35 PM
Have you tried removing the connections for the immobilizer bypass and leaving a known working key in the ignition cylinder in the off position?

I would also do this as your next step in the troubleshooting process.




Posted By: pracy
Date Posted: March 29, 2006 at 6:04 PM

thanks for the replys guys! great steps to try!!

I tried to shutdown Diagnostic which returned 6 LED flashes.

6 = negative shut down or positive shut down (hood or brake)

The hood pin isn't hooked up yet as i havn't drilled the hole. The wire is just sitting not earthed. Does it need an earth to start? I thought earthing this wire may have stopped the remote start so i just left it.

The brake wire is hooked up, will check if its correct this afternoon asap.

thankyou guys

my next test will be disconnecting the 556U and using a key in the ignition, I wasnt aware that worked! :)

mind you i did try a remote start, which failed, when i had the key in the off pos. But i hadn't disconnected the 556U. normally i was removing the key to try remote starting it. A couple times i left the key in the off pos, but it still failed.

cheers



-------------
Hers- 99' Silver WRX Sedan -3" xForce stainless turbo back + GFB BOF
His- 82 XE 351c 300+KW




Posted By: JWorm
Date Posted: March 29, 2006 at 7:24 PM
If you are getting 6, then its probably the brake wire. Check that before undoing the 556u setup. You probably hooked the brake shutdown wire upp to an ignition wire.




Posted By: pracy
Date Posted: March 29, 2006 at 9:19 PM

yes, I had a look at the bonnet pin and as you guys prob already know it goes ground when opened. So me just leaving the wire sitting in the engine bay all tapped up will not be stopping the remote start process.

Next thing to check this afternoon is the brake wire, not sure how i could stuff this up. If i am getting error=6 does it have to be either the brake or the bonnet pin. can it be anything else?

Also, i mentioned I had cut the antenna off the 556U and used the standard 2 wire WRX antenna. Do you know if this works in a wrx? Or should i reverse that? (only after checking the brake wire, then unpluggin the 556U and using a key)

thankyou all for the help

Another issue i have is, I have found the Neutral position wire et the ECU. It gives 5v when in Neutral. How can i interface this 5v with the Neutral ground wire on the viper? I imagine using a relay but I am figgering i will need a 5v relay? (not 12v) can anyone point me to the correct relay please as I have looked locally in my town and can't find anything, nor helpful knowledge for that matter...

cheers



-------------
Hers- 99' Silver WRX Sedan -3" xForce stainless turbo back + GFB BOF
His- 82 XE 351c 300+KW




Posted By: pracy
Date Posted: March 30, 2006 at 2:54 PM
pracy] wrote:

P>Next thing to check this afternoon is the brake wire, not sure how i could stuff this up. If i am getting error=6 does it have to be either the brake or the bonnet pin. can it be anything else?

Also, i mentioned I had cut the antenna off the 556U and used the standard 2 wire WRX antenna. Do you know if this works in a wrx? Or should i reverse that? (only after checking the brake wire, then unpluggin the 556U and using a key)

thankyou all for the help

Another issue i have is, I have found the Neutral position wire et the ECU. It gives 5v when in Neutral. How can i interface this 5v with the Neutral ground wire on the viper? I imagine using a relay but I am figgering i will need a 5v relay? (not 12v) can anyone point me to the correct relay please as I have looked locally in my town and can't find anything, nor helpful knowledge for that matter...

cheers


Bump

Thankyou!



-------------
Hers- 99' Silver WRX Sedan -3" xForce stainless turbo back + GFB BOF
His- 82 XE 351c 300+KW




Posted By: pracy
Date Posted: March 31, 2006 at 12:46 AM

also i should note that my turbo timer feature doesnt work either...

It sounds like I am missing a starter wire somewhere? do i need to run any wires to the starter etc?

I keep reading a "Starter Kill Relay" or something similar, I know there an option of running one on H1/1 loom. But are they talking about a different relay?

cheers



-------------
Hers- 99' Silver WRX Sedan -3" xForce stainless turbo back + GFB BOF
His- 82 XE 351c 300+KW




Posted By: Velocity Motors
Date Posted: March 31, 2006 at 10:52 AM

For the nuetral safety wire you should be able to hook that up directly to the Viper system. The Viper is looking for a ground on the wire and when there is a ground it will start. Wire in a relay for your nuetral safety and use this diagram. This will reverse the (+) nuetral position voltage that you have on the Subaru to a (-)...... just hope the 5 volts will trigger the relay.

On the subject of the vehicle not starting, cut your brake wire connection to the unit and then try to remote start it. If it stays running, then you have residual voltage on the brake line. You will need to wire in a relay like this.



-------------
Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA




Posted By: pracy
Date Posted: March 31, 2006 at 9:00 PM

ok I found the hoodpin wire to be getting ground somehow. I cut that wire at the alarm brain temp to see if it helps...

The remote start now get the car to fire for 1 sec then dies striaght away. I check the LED flashs after a diog and it was Low or No RPM.

I changed it to volt sense with the LOW threshold. The car stills only run for 1 sec.

LED changed to 4 flashes= Transmitter shutdown or optional button. ( i dont have the button installed)

I am guessing the next best thign to check is the 566u. I will disconnect it, insert key and giv the remote start a go.

Does the key need to be turned or just left in OFF pos?

thankyou all + netZ for ya great help

its getting alot closer now!



-------------
Hers- 99' Silver WRX Sedan -3" xForce stainless turbo back + GFB BOF
His- 82 XE 351c 300+KW




Posted By: pracy
Date Posted: March 31, 2006 at 10:49 PM
I disconnected the 556U, Put the key in the ignition and used the remote start. It started great first time...
 
Do you know if the alternate antenna method works?, where you cut off the standard 556u antenna and join into the stock Subaru antenna loom.. this is the method we used.
 
should we try alternate method 2 or just re-join the 556u dei antenna and use that?
 
cheers, thankyou


-------------
Hers- 99' Silver WRX Sedan -3" xForce stainless turbo back + GFB BOF
His- 82 XE 351c 300+KW




Posted By: JWorm
Date Posted: April 01, 2006 at 11:48 AM
On my 2005 WRX STi I just used the antenna that comes with the 556U. I would suggest doing the same.

To interface with the Neutral Position Sensor wire at the cars ECU:
I would connect the cars NPS wire to the hood pin input on the remote start. The NPS wire shows a solid ground when in gear. The remote start will think the hood is open, and will not attemot to start the car. If you arm the alarm with the car in gear you will get an indication that the hood is open.

You will need to add in a diode coming from the hood pin, and another diode on the wire coming from the ECU to prevent the circuits from backfeeding into each other. I hope you understand how diodes work. Or you could just connect the NPS wire in the car to the hood pin input of the 791xv and not use a hood pin.

Do not try to have the NPS wire trigger a relay. It is not strong enough of a signal and you risk burning out that circuit in the car if you do.




Posted By: pracy
Date Posted: April 01, 2006 at 3:23 PM

thankyou for the reply.

On my 1999 aussie model, it appears i had to use the alternate method because I wasn't able to put the new 566U antenna infront of the stock wrx antenna. The install diagram of the 556U shows the antenna having to be placed in front of the stock one to function. How are you able to get the new one in front and to stay there?, or do you just wrap it around the ignition barrell behind the stock antenna?

I have the NPS worked out. netZ has helped me use a 1n400x series diode to protect the ECU using the hoodpin method...

thankyou for the help



-------------
Hers- 99' Silver WRX Sedan -3" xForce stainless turbo back + GFB BOF
His- 82 XE 351c 300+KW




Posted By: pracy
Date Posted: April 02, 2006 at 5:34 PM

I reconnected the 556U antenna, I found aplace around the ignition barrell.

The remote start now works great!! thankyou asll for your help...

Nex thing to do is the door lock unlock.

How is this down easiest in a wrx?

cheers



-------------
Hers- 99' Silver WRX Sedan -3" xForce stainless turbo back + GFB BOF
His- 82 XE 351c 300+KW




Posted By: Velocity Motors
Date Posted: April 02, 2006 at 5:56 PM
pracy] wrote:

How is this down easiest in a wrx?


LOCK (-) wire is a RED / white at the integrated module to the left of the steering column in the gray plug.

UNLOCK (-) wire is a yellow/red at the integrated module to the left of the steering column in the gray plug.



-------------
Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA




Posted By: pracy
Date Posted: April 02, 2006 at 8:50 PM

thankyou for the information :)

will this unlock/lock the drivers door or does it need a motor installed?

wonder if this info is true for aussie models as well. hope so! (left side i mean, as i am pretty sure its on the right side for me, the module i mean.)

thankyou!!



-------------
Hers- 99' Silver WRX Sedan -3" xForce stainless turbo back + GFB BOF
His- 82 XE 351c 300+KW




Posted By: Velocity Motors
Date Posted: April 02, 2006 at 10:07 PM
If you have power door locks already, this will trigger the system and no motor is required to be installed. Just look for a module with a GRAY plug to the left of the steering cloumn for the right hand drives.

-------------
Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA




Posted By: JWorm
Date Posted: April 02, 2006 at 11:44 PM
You can also listen for the clicking sound of the lock relays when you hit the lock and unlock buttons on the door. That will lead you to the module for the door locks.




Posted By: pracy
Date Posted: April 02, 2006 at 11:50 PM

At the moment I need to use the key, but when i use the key in the drivers door, all the door lock or unlock.

I was thinking i would need a mtor in the drivers doo as its always moved/switched by the key motion.... Not  by the door circuit through out the car....

I thought it mayb lock/unlock all door except the drivers...

also, would  the alarm, or should the alarm be active while in turbo time mode and remote start mode?

i can walk near the car or shake the car when in either mode, not very well protected considering the car is running!!

cheers



-------------
Hers- 99' Silver WRX Sedan -3" xForce stainless turbo back + GFB BOF
His- 82 XE 351c 300+KW




Posted By: pracy
Date Posted: April 02, 2006 at 11:54 PM

another thingm can you please describe how to wire loom H4 (door lock/unlock)

I cant find instruction anywhere in the install manual for H4 except that the 2 wires seem to have both polaritys..

H4 loom=

GREEN (-) LOCK (+) UNLOCK OUTPUT

BLUE (+) LOCK (-) UNLOCK OUTPUT

which wires do i use to connect to the wires you pointed to Jeff?



-------------
Hers- 99' Silver WRX Sedan -3" xForce stainless turbo back + GFB BOF
His- 82 XE 351c 300+KW




Posted By: pracy
Date Posted: April 03, 2006 at 5:42 PM

JWorm] wrote:

n my 2005 WRX STi I just used the antenna that comes with the 556U. I would suggest doing the same.

To interface with the Neutral Position Sensor wire at the cars ECU:
I would connect the cars NPS wire to the hood pin input on the remote start. The NPS wire shows a solid ground when in gear. The remote start will think the hood is open, and will not attemot to start the car. If you arm the alarm with the car in gear you will get an indication that the hood is open.

You will need to add in a diode coming from the hood pin, and another diode on the wire coming from the ECU to prevent the circuits from backfeeding into each other. I hope you understand how diodes work. Or you could just connect the NPS wire in the car to the hood pin input of the 791xv and not use a hood pin.

Do not try to have the NPS wire trigger a relay. It is not strong enough of a signal and you risk burning out that circuit in the car if you do.

Thanks everyone for your replys, they have all helped!!

JWorm, why is there a need for 2 diodes? I plan on putting one between the ECU and the hoodpin wire...

Why would i need one between the alarm brain and the hoodpin, i think this is what u are talking about? (if not where do I use the 2nd diode?)

what does the 2nd diode protect?

thanks for the information, I am glad i read your post before only using 1 diode.

cheers!!



-------------
Hers- 99' Silver WRX Sedan -3" xForce stainless turbo back + GFB BOF
His- 82 XE 351c 300+KW




Posted By: pracy
Date Posted: April 25, 2006 at 6:30 PM
bump

-------------
Hers- 99' Silver WRX Sedan -3" xForce stainless turbo back + GFB BOF
His- 82 XE 351c 300+KW





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