Printer Friendly Forum Posts - Ahh-- make it stop!

My relays clicks... I have it hooked up to an interface so that every time the music "hits" it changes the color of the lights.... well it clicks a lot and its very loud...

What have ppl done in the past to dampen in the sound? I have duct tape, sound dampening material, and foam... hehe, what should I do?

I don't think there is much you can do.

Relocate the relay to the trunk if it bothers you.

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Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA

I have seen quiet 12V Relays advertised somewhere so I did a quick search on Google and found this page: https://www.fcai.fujitsu.com/relays/archive/twinrelay.asp

Although I haven't used them persoanlly, they advertise themselves as being ultra quiet - this may help you out.

awesome... that looks like it will work but I have a question:

Can someone verifty for me(it looks like it but I don't know much about different types of relays) that this is a standard 5 pin relay like my Bosch relay is?

https://www.fcai.fujitsu.com/cgi-bin/shProd01.asp?part_ID=3829&srchType=Relay

Yes it is. From the looks of the last page on the pdf. this is a SPDT relay.

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Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA

It appears to be a normal 5-pin style BUT the physical location of the pins don't appear to be the same so your Bosch style plug won't fit properly.

Here is their pin-outs:
posted_image

Which is the same as a normal Relay. I will check around some more to see if I can find a "quiet" relay with a normal plug.

posted_image

Thanks for both of the quick responses..... Awesome. My problem is solved :D! Now does anyone know where I can order online?

Uhhh... Image didn't appear correctly above. You can view it here:

https://spam.portage.net/Relay1.GIF

BumpNGlow,

I have searched everywhere on the Internet to find a place where you can purchase those "quiet" relays and I can't find anywhere to save my life...

In Canada, we have a "Big Box Store" called Canadian Tire and they have them right on the shelf in the automotive section AND they plug into a normal relay plug. Maybe take a tour to some of your local automotive retailers and check on the shelf...

how much do they run for? can you get a brand name, part number or antying by chance?

I got the number of a relay specialist store from my local audio shop (I'm friends w/ most of them there) and I am going to try and give them a call.

I will be going to Canadian Tire on Sunday... I will take a look then and post on Sunday night or Monday morning...

why can't you wrap the relay w/ some sound insulator or somethin

MCubed45 wrote:

why can't you wrap the relay w/ some sound insulator or somethin

I did. I have it in almost 4 layers of "SecondSkin" soundeadening, and then 2 or 3 layers of duct tape. It's still pretty loud -- barely made a dent really.

Jeeesh... You would think this would be an easy task. I went to Canadian Tire and I was either dreaming about this OR they were out BUT I did some more searching on the net and found some more info.

Here is what you need:
Aromat makes a 12V Relay that is "Quiet" - their part number is: CQ1-12V you can get info on it https://ctlgserv.mew.co.jp/ctlg/acg/eng/relay/mech_eng/@Generic__BookTextView/15478;td=2;cs=dynaweb1.wv

It appears that it won't plug directly into a normal style 12v relay receptical but the wiring is the same.

I found one place online that you can purchase it here:
1) https://www.avnetmarshall.com/dynamic/search then type in CQ1-12V - but they have no stock.

Sorry I coudn't be of more help...

What exactly are you trying to do? You say everytime music "hits", it changes color of light? I probably have a super quiet solution (no noise), but I need to know more information about what your trying to accomplish and voltages / current.

the StreetGlow Music Interface (MI) I have has a + and a - that comes off of it that is supposed to go to the + and the - of a neon. Then, if you flick a switch("music") on the MI, it uses a mic to tell when the music is loudest. When the beat occurs, the - makes a connection (there is a constant + signal coming out). When the music is quiet again, the - connection is lost.

Using a 5 pin relay like I showed in my first posts I get a very cool and unique effect. What can you do to make that quiet Thinkster?

(link to the instruction manual: https://www.streetglow.com/site/manuals/MUSCINT.pdf )

chkdsk wrote:

I found one place online that you can purchase it here:
1) https://www.avnetmarshall.com/dynamic/search then type in CQ1-12V - but they have no stock.

Also, you have to order 400 or more at a time :(

O.K., so now I have an idea of what your hooking up. I see the unit has 12V Power Input and 4 Output ports. Are these output ports High Voltage or do the Neon Tubes your hooking up have built in inverters? Or should I say are the outputs from the Interface 12V or Higher?
And also, where exactly are you interfacing this relay? what function does the relay serve as I see no "trigger" or turn on inputs on the .pdf manual you refered to.

As for your pin out on the first relay, it's for a PC Board! It can be used, but you need a soldering iron/ gun. If you need more info you can email me at TheModifier@TransAM.zzn.com As for the othr relays that you purchase, they usually have a diagram on the back of the packaging, and/ or on the unit itself.

If you use the later of the two relays, you can buy stake on connectors to connect your wires to the relay. (Walmart Sells a kit of full them).

L8TR,

Mod

BumpNGlow wrote:

Also, you have to order 400 or more at a time :(

Ohhhh... Sorry Man, I didn't read close enough. posted_image

I can't believe that something so simple is causing us all this brain damage...

Thinkster wrote:

O.K., so now I have an idea of what your hooking up. I see the unit has 12V Power Input and 4 Output ports. Are these output ports High Voltage or do the Neon Tubes your hooking up have built in inverters? Or should I say are the outputs from the Interface 12V or Higher?
And also, where exactly are you interfacing this relay? what function does the relay serve as I see no "trigger" or turn on inputs on the .pdf manual you refered to.

The output on the MI is a 12v+ and a -. The neons all have built in trasnformers, but LEDs can connect directly (w/ a resistor). The trigger on the relay is a - from the MI.

So let me get this right, each output port from the MI is +12V and GND. When music is playing, a different port becomes active (+12V & GND present) each time a beat hits or something. And what you want to do is trigger a relay from one of these output ports rather then a neon tube or LED? If so what is the relay driving or as I asked before, "where exactly are you interfacing this relay? what function does the relay serve"
I have a solution it depends on what you are doing and what kind of input & outputs your dealing with. Oh, and you don't have to order 400 and can probably get the stuff a Rat Shack.

Radio Shack said they do not have a quiet relay, but I might stop by there today and look for myself.

If you go the the link I posted earlier it tells you most of what you wanted to know.

I am using a 5 pin relay to make the neons flash a little differently than they normally do hooked up to the MI w/out a relay. When hooked up to a MI normally, the neons flash when the music gets loudest (normally a beat), and no lights are on w/ the music is quiet (the "quiet point" is adjustable). Using a 5 pin relay I can hook neons up to the "beat" and another set to the "quiet" times. It creates a cool effect but like I've said in previous posts, its too loud -- the relay clicks every time the music gets "loud."

If I had a diagram of your exact setup including your noisy relay, it would be easy to figure out what you need, but since most likely you are switching either 12v or GND, the drawing I made is for both a Negative trigger with a Positive Output and a Positive trigger with a Negative output. This solution is guaranteed to not make any noise as it is solid state. Hopefully you need configuration 1 as that paticular part is available at Radio Shack. If you do not understand this drawing, I can build one in a casing with leads for $10. I personally use this type of solution instead of Relays when possible.
posted_image

I would use the bottom one actually, but my question is what part is Q2 TIP32? Where can I get it? I am interested in this now. And does it have a Normally closed pin like the relay does? That was the point of the relay.

TIP32 is a Transistor (PNP) Rat Shack used to carry a lot more components then they do now. A transistor that can handle the current I described should be pretty easy to get at a local electronics store or online sources like DigiKey & Mouser. They don't have a Normally closed pin, so to speak, as a relay, but they can be paired and perform the same functions as a relay assuming your just "switching" voltage (12V or GND). I can't help you any further though without your diagram or identifying what each pin on your relay is connected to and the voltage on each.

Thinkster wrote:

They don't have a Normally closed pin, so to speak, as a relay, but they can be paired and perform the same functions as a relay assuming your just "switching" voltage (12V or GND).

Thinkster,

This is pretty cool - I'm impressed. posted_image
When NC is not needed in a multiple relay situation, this solution would save a pile of room.

https://www.suslow.com/neon/relay.html

this sounds promising man - thanks for the help thus far... its gonna be awesome to get this done.

OK, now with that diagram & pinout, I can see what is going on. You need both a normally closed and normally open type output triggering from a ground with +12V on each output. Let me go to my drawing board and see what I can come up with. It will probably be two Transistors and a couple resistors & diode. How much current (Amps) will you require as that will depend on the selection of the transistors. Oh and it's not too hard to wire up as long as you can solder. Each transistor has 3 pins.

cool, I can solder. And as for the total number of amps, ummm, 12 or so(each output).... I'm not 100% sure and I'd rather have more than enough power.

This circuit should give you a "N/C" (+12v) output that goes OFF when the "N/O" output (+12v) get's triggered from a (-) on the input. It works on my simulator, but I haven't soldered it up and tested with lights yet to confirm. AllElectronics.com has the parts or you can get NTE/ECG equivalents usually at a local electronics store. You may need to switch the +12v supply if you wish to be able to shut OFF all your lights.
posted_image

Here's the transistors that can handle more then enough current for your needs. Notice the metal tab on the part. Do NOT mount that to metal on the car, Do NOT mount them to each other. Do Seperate them with something non-conductive that won't easily melt.

wow this project just went extremely over my head. I've been in a car for 6 hrs today so that might have to do w/ it. I'll try re-reading this later tonight or tomorrow, but I bet I'll have some more questions.

ok, well I understand the diagram 100% now, I just don't understand how it works. Where can I read about transistors? They seem very cool! What else can they do?

Well, simply put, The "B" on the transistor is the Base which is kind of like one side of the coil of a relay. It's the trigger. With an NPN transistor, you need a Positive on the Base to trigger the "coil" With the PNP, you need a negative or ground on the Base to trigger. The E & C are Emitter & Collector. This is kind of like your "Common" and "N/O" on a relay. Current can only flow in one direction so if your passing +12V, you would generally use a PNP (Positive-Negative-Positive) and for NPN you would usually be passing a Negative or Ground. with little current/voltage on the Base, you can switch heavier current through the Emitter & Collector. Just like with Relays! Transistors can basically be used to drive lights, motors, whatever as long as you use the appropriate transistor for the current demands of the load. Search Yahoo for more info, especially with keywords like robotics, transistors, circuits. MOSFETs can also be used to do what you want, but I'm more comfortable working with transistors.

ok, awesome. I am ordering them tonight. Now transistors do not add more power, correct? Like w/ a relay you use the trigger to turn it on, but the relay gets its own power. Transistors don't have their own power, correct? Its not a big deal at all I'm just trying to learn.

what kind of non conductive, non melting material for me to wrap them in? How hot do these get? Can I wrap them in duct tape or something?

Just to through in my two cents here, wouldn't have been easier to just wire your relays then put them into a cup and pour some casting or fiberglass resin over them? You probably wouldn't be able to hear them anymore.

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BumpNGlow wrote:

what kind of non conductive, non melting material for me to wrap them in? How hot do these get? Can I wrap them in duct tape or something?

I suppose you could mount them to a thin piece of wood or Hi-Temp plastic. Normally/Ideally they are mounted to a metal heatsink with an insulator behind & in the screw hole because the metal tab is usually common with one of the pins, so grounding out the tab can possibly short out the transistor. How hot they get depends on how much current your drawing as well as the duty cycle (how long it's on at one time). Usually when I use them, it is for intermittent use like to switch something on for a few seconds. If my load is only say 1 Amp, then the transistor shouldn't get very hot if I'm using it like I mentioned. So sometimes I mount it to plastic (Hi-temp plastic would probably be good) or sometimes I just have the pins/legs soldered to a generic circuit board (I think they still sell these at Radio Shack) housed in a plastic case.

ok, well what I'll probably do then is get heat shrink for all of the pins, and mount them on a piece of wood as far apart as possible in my spare tire well (probably like 18" apart or something.

But basically I don't have to worry about a fan or anything crazy for cooling?

And do transistors add power like relays do? Do they work under their own 12+ source?

(looking at the diagram they would have to seeing as how the trigger is a 12-, nevermind.)

The transistors do not have to be physically mounted far apart. They can be right next to each other, no problem. You just don't want any pins or tabs to be able to touch one another or touch ground somewhere on the car as that can short it out. You don't have to worry about fans as were not driving these like they would be in say an Car Amp circuit. "Do transistors add power like relays do?" I'm not sure what you mean. I've never seen a relay that Adds power. Unless you mean current, then yes, with a low trigger current, you can switch a much larger current through the Emitter & Collector Pins, just how a relay does with it's contacts that are rated for 30-40Amps. Transistors do not add power or have their own power. You are supplying +12V and Ground and the transistor is just responsible for switching that ON or OFF in this application.