Relay problem, Brain Dead

Here's the situation.......... I need a relay set up that will allow me to press a button and activate a device until it has stopped. The device will continue to move until I remove my finger from the button and automatically stops when it has reached it's end. Here's where I need some help from you guys......

Now I need to reverse the device the other way with the same button ( trigger ) by reversing the two wires. Much like a door lock actuator when you reverse the wires it pushes or pulls. Let me know what you think and this is for a JDM folding power mirror if your curious of the " device "

Hey Velocity,

I might have seen something that might help you.  I do mean might.  I'm not extremely technical in this field but I ran across something the other day.  It was like a wig wag relay sorta.  But it was mechanical.  When the coil is energized it powers one pole until it's deenergized.  When the coil is energized again it powers the other pole.  It works mechanically.  But it alternates between the poles.  I guess that's the best way I can explain it.  I'll find out the part number and tell you if you think something like this would help.  I hope that I help a little.  Just trying to return the favor. 

HEY VELOCIY ANY SUGESTIONS ON THE INFINITY?

I HAVE WIRING FOR IT I CAN TELL WHATEVER YOU NEED TO HELP ME OUT I NEED THE WINDOWS TO GO UP OR DOWN. THE DOOR TRIGER WIRES FROM THE KEY CYLINDER CONTROL WINDOWS IF I PULSE ONCE THE ALARM IN THE CAR WILL DISARM AND IF I PULSE IT 2 TIMES THE DOORS WILL UNLOCK IF I CONTINUE THE PULSE WINDOWS WILL GO DOWN OR UP. I HAVE 2 MODULES FOR THIS CAR BUT IF I DONT HAVE TO USE THEM ID LIKE THAT.

IF I DO USE THEM DO I HAVE TO GO IN EVERY DOOR FO RTHIS SYTEM TO WORK?

HOW ABOUT THE DOOR LOCKS DO I NEED TO GO TO THE KEY CYLINDER OR CAN I GET IT AT THE BCM? ANY HELP PLEASE.

Hey Mobiletoys;

The G35 is such a new vehicle.... I haven't had the opportunity to work on one of these beasts yet. From what you have written what you need to do is to have a single pulse and a extended second pulse to mimic the OEM system. Does all the windows go down when you unlock the car ? Does all the windows go up when you lock the car the same way ? According to what my latest info on a I35 says about the door locks and the windows, you may have to go straight to the switch for the 3 doors and go to the passenger door for the passenger door for the windows. You amy have to use the modules as this would be easier than trying to a extended second pulsed circuit ( unless the alarm has one already, then your set. )

This may or may not help; it at least may be a starting point for you...

Below is the original text that accompanied the image (I got it from somewhere on the Web):

The circuit below requires a double pole, double throw relay in conjunction with a single transistor to allow toggling the relay with a momentary push button. One set of relay contacts is used to control the load, while the other is used to provide feedback to keep the relay activated or deactivated. Several push buttons can be wired in parallel to allow toggling the relay from different locations.

In the deactivated state, the relay contacts are arranged so the 1000 uF capacitor will charge to about 2.7 volts. When the switch is closed, the capacitor voltage is applied to the transistor base through a 560 resistor causing the transistor to turn on and activate the relay. In the activated state, the relay contacts are arranged so the 3.3K resistor and 560 ohm resistor provide a continous current to the transistor base maintaining the activated state. While in the activated state, the capacitor is allowed to discharge to zero through the 1K resistor. When the switch is again closed, the capacitor will cause the transistor base to move toward ground deactivating the relay.

The circuit has three distinct advantages, it requires only a few parts, always comes up with the relay deactivated, and doesn't need any switch debouncing. However since the capacitor will begin charging as soon as the button is depressed, the button cannot remain depressed too long to avoid re-engaging the relay. This problem can be minimized with an additional resistor connected from the transistor base to ground so that the base voltage is close to 0.7 volts with the button depressed and the transistor is biased in the linear region. With the button held down, the relay coil voltage should be somewhere between the pull in and drop out voltages so that the relay will maintain the last toggled state. This worked out to about 820 ohms for the circuit I built using a 12 volt, 120 ohm relay coil and 2N3053 transistor. Temperature changes will effect the situation but the operation is still greatly improved. I heated the transistor with a hair dryer and found that the relay will re-engage with the button held down for approximately 1 second, but this is not much of a problem under normal operation.

Hey Mobiletoys, you should be able to grab the wires at the BCM without any problems because the Infinity uses (-) type A systems so you will be able to grab at BCM. As far as the windows go...... best bet is to use the window modules especially if all 4 windows do not roll down or up at the same time.

Pickle;

Do you know how long the discharge time is for the configuration that you have above ? I need the reverse polarity discharge of the one relay to be at least 3-5 seconds in order for the set up to work.

Velocity-

The impression I got from the text is that it is just a relay toggle...apply power to the circuit and the relay comes up de-energized.  Press the momentary switch (though only one is needed, the diagram shows two, in case you need/want to toggle the relay from multiple locations) and the relay energizes and latches on.  Press the momentary switch again and the relay de-energizes and stays off.  Press it again and it latches on, etc.  I've not wired the circuit myself, yet, so I can't say for sure, but looking at the schematic, I'd say that it does exactly that...

I'm thinking that you could use the common contact (immediately to the right of the coil in the schematic) to go to switched 12VDC, and the NC and NO leads to each power a separate relay coil.  Each of the relays that would be powered from the circuit above would then have the "constant-to-momentary" setup shown elsewhere on this site, but with a higher-value capacitor (how much exactly would depend upon the current draw of the relays you'll be using and the time you need for each to be energized...) to increase the time (I think it was about 1/2 second) to the 3-5 seconds you need.  You probably already know this, but if you've got some really huge caps, you can connect a cap in series with a resistor and get pretty close to whatever time you need by figuring TIME=Resistance(in Ohms) multiplied by Capacitance(in Farads).  Variable resistors come in handy...

Velocity-

Just re-read my post.  To clarify: by saying the contact immediately to the right of the relay coil, I meant the set of contacts immediately to the right of the coil in the schematic, not the very first individual contact to the right...

Also, note that it's a DPDT relay...the contacts toward the left side of the schematic are driven by the same coil as the contacts on the right side of the schematic; they're used to charge/discharge the cap, which enables the latch on / latch off of the transistor which provides the ground path for the coil...so though you'd need a DPDT relay tor this schematic, you've only got one common, one NO and one NC to work with for the rest of the circuit you're setting up, which is why I suggested two additional relays.

Velocity,

The place I saw this relay will be closed over the weekend.  But as soon a I can I will try and find out the model # and everything for you and post it.

Change of plans here  The switch is now . The trigger doesn't work after the initial trial of the DPDT relay....... oh, well. This forces me to now be a little creative with the wiring. The mirrors still work if I attach the proper wires to them ( contant + and a ground ). Now I will use my alarm remote to operate the mirrors in place of the switch. I have 12 channels on the alarm that I have, there is no problems and I can choose between constant, pulsed or latched for each of these wires. Now the problem at hand (again) is I need a flip flop relay configuration that will allow me to send a latched signal to the two wires ( one + and the other a - ) and then switch them to reverse the motor on the mirrors to flip them open. Any suggestions ?? I know this is a little confusing but any help on this will be given back 10 fold to whoever helps with this one

hey Pickle..

Just to let you know, the pic you attached didnt post...it points to your hard drive.. (or mine..depending on the way you look at it )

file:///C:/My%20Documents/Schematics/RelayToggle.gif'

Hope this works...

click here

Hey ....... where did you find that ??? I was looking for those posts before in the SEARCH and it came up with nothing ?? Thanks techrat  !! I though those posts were over a year old and that's why it didn't come up on the search results. I'll try this out and post my results when I have a chance to install the relays.

Hey techrat ..... did 12 volt ever get a diagram to you on this configuration ?? Did it work out with the switch ??

The Customer decided to wait until next year to be competition ready.

This year we are just building and brainstorming. I haven't tried any of the suggestions that were posted. I am too stubborn...still fiddling with my instincts... I almost had it one day with two relays and two caps.. but i couldn't spend anymore time on it. MARK MY WORDS...I will get it, OH yes.. I will !

Good Luck

2 relays and 2 caps ?? I thought the instructions were for 3 relays and 2 diodes ? Whatever the case I figured out the wiring diagram for this circuit and I'm trying it tomorrow or Friday and see what I end up with ( Cross my fingers )

velocity,

Did you get the relays to work the way you wanted them to?  If so could you tell me how you did it?  I'd like to do something similar with my power windows.  Thanks.

Hey ShaunD912;

Still working on it right now. I have been a little too busy with other customer's vehicles / You know how it is .... the installer's car is always the LAST one to be worked on. I'll post my results when I get it going as far as relay configurations go.

yea, i understand.

there is one difference in what i want to do.  i don't want mine to latch.  i just want it to work as long as you hold the button.  thanks.

Hey Velocity,

I was checking to see if you got it to work yet.

Use a P&B mechanical latching relay. Use one push button, push and hold and will make motor go forward. Release and motor will stop. Push again to reverse motor. Release to stop. The relay has two SPDT switches, one switch is common to N.C. while the other is common to N.O., and switches over when the relay is activated. Let me know if need a drawing.

Hey Karl;

I got it going with the use of just two relays and the 2 outputs of the alarm system. Thanks for the help.

What kind of alarm do you have that has 12 channels? Mine only has 2.

The alarm is an Alpine 8063 with the 12 EXT expansion module.

Hey,

go2pac could you send me a copy of your drawing. I going to run my doors off linear actuators so i need to do the same type of wiring. one momentary switch to open extend and contract the acuators.  Thanks

This should do it. This is the mechanical relay that P&B has and is kind of huge, but they or some other company might have a smaller one that does the same thing.