debate of how to face subwoofers

I saw somewhere on here that someone said that they have had better sound from a system when they installed the subwoofers in the extra-cab of a sonoma/s-10, with the subs facing down. Something about the sound sounding better.
Well I am going to be putting my subs in my 1997 sonoma w/x-cab.
But I dont know if what I read really has any merit to it, because that would change everything in my set up. Also, I plan on putting my amps underneath my sub box, and if the subs are facing straight down at the amps, will that damage or rattle my amps apart? haha, sounds like a funny question but I want to get the best possible sound out of my setup.
Thanks

As for the quality of the sound, I doubt it'll matter. As for SPL, down and/or rear firing usually have the best results. I love downfiring.

First off, make sure the subs are not too saggy. If so, don't do it (only fire front or rearwards) b/c damage can result to the subs. Find out here: https://www.subwoofertools.com/forum/sag.htm

Second, make sure the subs are about 3" or more off the floor -as not to hit and also to allow good airflow.

I don't think it'll be a problem to fire them towards the amp(s).

-------------
2013 Kia Rio -90a alternator
DDX470HD GTO14001 GTO1014D (x3)
Big3 in 1/0G
1/0G to GTO14001

cool, thanks.
but what do you mean by 'saggy'?
Ive never heard this term before?

Here's the laymans term. If the woofer is not 'stiff' enough, then, when firing down, will already be hanging down past the 'zero point' (centered) and when it hits, it can exceed it's mechanical limits and that's not good.

Can one of the BigGuys help me explain this? I, too, am just a novice.


-I actually have downfired 2 diff. kinds of subs that were too saggy for 6 months with no ill results (sealed boxes). They were overpowered by 50% also. It's just luck, I guess...

-------------
2013 Kia Rio -90a alternator
DDX470HD GTO14001 GTO1014D (x3)
Big3 in 1/0G
1/0G to GTO14001

ok, i see what you mean. Like that rubber ring on the woofer could be worn out, and gravity could be pulling it down some, etc etc.

Well, not only that. The woofer itsself would already be sticking out -down, so when it gets power it might move too far and exceed it's mechanical limits, destoying the sub.

-------------
2013 Kia Rio -90a alternator
DDX470HD GTO14001 GTO1014D (x3)
Big3 in 1/0G
1/0G to GTO14001

Actually, the way a subwoofer sounds WILL vary depending on what direction it is facing.  This is due to wavelengths.  Depending on what frequency the box is tuned, the woofers can have peaks in certain frequencies and effect the response if they are not facing the right direction.  Usually in cars with hatches or trunks, the woofers facing rearwards will give you deeper bass while facing them forward will give a more accurate sound.  The problem with trucks are that the woofers are usually not far enough away to give you long enough wavelengths to give you good sounding deep bass without the box being tuned to do so.  You can do a ported box and help this problem.  Downfire boxes also help too but ported is the best design usually for truck "behind the seat" boxes.  As far as the woofer stiffness and downfire boxes, there is not too much you have to worry abou tin that area because if the woofer has a "looser" suspension, the cone mass is also lighter (unless the woofer is just a total turd).  I have installed cheaper woofers to more expensive ones in downfire boxes several times and never have had a problem with  gravity messing up the woofers.  If you do a downfire box and install your amps under the box, take these two suggestions into consideration:  make the bottom baffle that the woofers will mount to far enough away from the amps so they don't hit them, and leave enough space for the amps to have proper ventilation to keep cool or they could overheat and shut off or start to distort.

-------------
"If a man made it, another can modify it...it just takes some thinking."
"If you ask questions, you're a fool for 5 minutes; if you don't, you're a fool for a lifetime."

installer_mss, so are you saying that I wont be able to reproduce a deep bass sound because I will be putting them in my extended cab of my sonoma?
Or, only if I am very careful in building a box to tune the speakers correctly, so that I will be able to hit the deep lows that I so desire.
Im rather discouraged to hear that subs in a truck have less performance, because I love that really deep bass and fidelity.
Thanks

not necessarily.  if the box is built to the woofers' specs and you have the right power, you will get what you're looking for.  i'm just saying it's a little more difficult to do in a truck than a car or hatchback.   if you are good at building boxes you can build one with good trans. response and get that really low bass.  if you build a ported box it hits lower notes better or you can opt for an EQ to help with the lower freqs that small sealed boxes generally roll off before.  don't get discouraged man...if anything tell me the measurements you have to work with in the truck and the woofers you have and i can design a box in my program that will perform nicely.  the EQ thing might still should be a consideration as it would help quite a bit to adjust the sound to boost or cut the frequencies the box needs help with.

-------------
"If a man made it, another can modify it...it just takes some thinking."
"If you ask questions, you're a fool for 5 minutes; if you don't, you're a fool for a lifetime."

According to the manufacturers box specs, it actually looks like having a sealed box will give about the same frequency as a ported box will at the correct box dimensions. The only thing they say is the ported box will be about, up to 10 dB spl more. And im not really to concerned with that much of a differance on loudness. SQ is really important to me, and I've read that sealed boxes are better for sq.
And the specs that im referring to are from JBL website, JBL 15" gto12504d parameters.
Either way, at about 60hz and higher the scale drops significantly, more so with the ported box.

if you are more concerned with quality rather than spl, then a sealed box is the way to go.  the way it would probably sound best is downfire, yet i would still have an EQ to tweak the frequencies where the box has its natural rolloffs.  you want the woofers to play the widest spectrum possible without going outside its range (usually about 150 hz or so and lower).  what frequency do the specs say the box should be tuned at?  to tune a sealed box low..it usually means a bigger box and/or polyfill.

-------------
"If a man made it, another can modify it...it just takes some thinking."
"If you ask questions, you're a fool for 5 minutes; if you don't, you're a fool for a lifetime."

Here is a link to JBL website for the speaker box i plan on making.
https://www.jbl.com/car/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=GTO1504D&Language=ENG&Country=US&Region=USA&cat=SUB&ser=GTS
just click on the "Boxes and Parameters" PDF to read what it says.

I dont understand what you mean by, 'what frequency do the specs say the box should be tuned at?'
It shows the whole range of frequency's that the speaker is capable of.
I thought I would just follow the specs for the sealed box, which is Vbox= 1.50ft3 per speaker. I plan on using two speakers.
   Would I not get the deepest bass from a box with Vbox= 1.50ft3?
I think that is a pretty small box, especially for 15" subs, and you said a bigger box, and polyfill? I was thinking of using polyfill, but I dont know what the effect would be filling up my box with that stuff. It would make it seem like its a bigger box then it is, but would that throw off the box size specs?

the bigger a sealed box is the smoother the response is genarally.  all woofers will work in a variety of enclosures.  the manufacturer gives the average box that will work for the woofer in everyday use.  there are several box sizes it will work in, all having a different effect on sound.  each box also has is own tuning frequency as well.  you could go on for hours talking about this stuff.  just build the box how you want really.  if you'd like, i or someone on the12volt could help you if you want one designed for a specific application.

-------------
"If a man made it, another can modify it...it just takes some thinking."
"If you ask questions, you're a fool for 5 minutes; if you don't, you're a fool for a lifetime."

You'll just have to be careful about making the box TOO big. The box size that is on the PDF is designed to take advantage of the speakers Qs and give it the best performance (best response and clarity for loudness) Like MSS said, GENERALLY the bigger the box, the smoother the response, but it not like that in all the cases.

Now you said you were also looking for sound quality... I am assuming that you are looking for street bass quality sound and not competition SQ (which means flatline... REALLY bad for those looking to make their system a daily listener)

Such is the case, here is a brief summary of possibilities (though not all, jsut the most likely ones):

1) You go with the design specified by the PDF. You'll get excellent response even though it does seem that the box is on the tiny side. It will work for it. The Qs can support most boxes, but the way they designed and engineered it, it would seem that it was made specifically for sealed.

2) You go slightly larger and/or fill with Poly. You'll get deeper response notes and it will seem a bit louder because the Poly is absorbing the extra vibration and pressure from the back side of the sub. Clarity MIGHT, but not much if any, be lost unless you fill the box with more than 2 lbs of poly. If you go poly route, I recommend no more than 1.5 lbs of poly (really deep response).

3) If you go with a bigger box, any box below 4cf will suffice, after that, the speaker will think it is running outside a box and it is not designed for that, ie really poor sound. Based on the numbers for a sealed box, I wouldn't go past 3cf. After that, the speaker will suffer greatly in performance.

If you want my opinion keep reading... Otherwise Read past this paragraph Xp
I would stick to the manufacturer's specs on the box. They engineered the box to match the sub for that particular application. Yes, it does seem like it breaks the "common" rule of size for boxes, but if a billion dollar company is making it, I would like to think they know what they are doing... They didn't get as big as they did by making crappy products now, did they? Your subs are large enough that you'll get plenty of bass and boom without sacrificing quality.

Well I hope this helps out somewhat

Ganbatte ne!

-------------
Never send your ducks to eagle school.
The difference between ordinary and extraordinary is that little extra.
The 3Ls of life: Learn from the Past, Live for the Present, Look to the Future.

polyfill actually has the opposite effect on SPL.  it raises accuracy at the cost of loudness.  all woofers have a min box volume and a max.  if the box is too big the woofer has to rely completely on the stiffness of the surround and the spider to keep it from "unloading" or over-excursion.  you should lower the power going to the box if you go bigger than what the actual sub specs call for.  daily drivers can sound very good with smooth response boxes.  mine is a good example of such.  the more accurate the better, but some people are more concerned with spl.

-------------
"If a man made it, another can modify it...it just takes some thinking."
"If you ask questions, you're a fool for 5 minutes; if you don't, you're a fool for a lifetime."

>.< oh yeah... now that was a dumb mistake hehe... Well a girl can't be right all the time right? Just 99.9999999999%

-------------
Never send your ducks to eagle school.
The difference between ordinary and extraordinary is that little extra.
The 3Ls of life: Learn from the Past, Live for the Present, Look to the Future.

lol...i'll settle for being right 0.0000000001% of the time...at least it's not flat 0%

-------------
"If a man made it, another can modify it...it just takes some thinking."
"If you ask questions, you're a fool for 5 minutes; if you don't, you're a fool for a lifetime."