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audio grade relays?


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mikster 
Member - Posts: 3
Member spacespace
Joined: May 05, 2008
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posted: May 05, 2008 at 9:05 PM / IP Logged  
I am looking to install a relay, in order to connect the output stage of a Bluetooth module, as well as audio signal from an aftermarket audio amplifier, in my car audio system.
I need to connect these two sources simultaneously to my speakers, and, as such, thought a relay would help to switch. The relay would be triggered by a "cell phone trigger" line that the BT module has.
Since I want the relay to pass high-grade/quality sound signals from my amp, is there a specific type of DPDT relay I should be searching for? I will be placing the relay just before the input of my passive speaker crossover.
My audio is an Eclipse AVN, driven by an aLpine FR450amp and trying to install the Eclipe BT E500 BT module. (This BT module isn't designed for aftermarket amps..they expect me to use the speaker-level outputs of the headunit...)
Thanks!
chriswallace187 
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Joined: March 11, 2002
Location: Pennsylvania, United States
Posted: May 11, 2008 at 2:34 PM / IP Logged  
I would suggest that you may not need a relay for this particular install. Connect the Bluetooth speaker outputs directly to the speaker outputs from the amp, with no relays, and that should take care of getting your cellular audio out to the car.
The cellular phone trigger, when connected to the pink wire at the head unit, should mute the audio out to the amp, thereby removing the need to use relays to switch it.
If a later situation comes up where isolating audio outputs is required, standard DPDT relays can be used (make sure to have a diode across the terminals of the coil to suppress voltage spikes).
C Renner's Auto Electronix
My service is cheap, quick, and good - pick any two
i am an idiot 
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Platinum spaceThis member consistently provides reliable informationspace
Joined: September 21, 2006
Location: Louisiana, United States
Posted: May 11, 2008 at 4:30 PM / IP Logged  
I don't think I would connect my bluetooth module to the output of my amplifier.  But that is just me.
teenkertoy 
Copper - Posts: 112
Copper spacespace
Joined: April 01, 2008
Location: California, United States
Posted: May 14, 2008 at 3:51 AM / IP Logged  
chriswallace187 wrote:
I would suggest that you may not need a relay for this particular install. Connect the Bluetooth speaker outputs directly to the speaker outputs from the amp, with no relays, and that should take care of getting your cellular audio out to the car.
Your amplifier will try to drive power into the speakers and the bluetooth module, problems are sure to follow. Do not connect the amplifier high level output to the bluetooth device or relays.
A relay should be installed at line level, if done at all. No you do not need any special kind of relay for line level signals, any DPDT flavor will do.
The user manual available from crutchfield is not very useful, there is almost no information about how to connect the damn thing. If all else fails, try taking it back to where you bought it, or your nearest Eclipse dealer for help with the installation.
Which head unit do you have?
-Justin
Malcom: "This is the captain. We have a...little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and then...explode."
Jayne: "We're gonna explode? I don't wanna explode.
i am an idiot 
Platinum - Posts: 13,666
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Joined: September 21, 2006
Location: Louisiana, United States
Posted: May 14, 2008 at 5:26 AM / IP Logged  
I think he has a bluetooth module that has relays inside the module for radio power speaker switching. The amp will not be trying to power the bluetooth module. When the amp is playing the amp signal will be going through the bluetooth module, but he will have no radio connected to the input speaker wires of the module. Hence no current going through the module. I think that part of it will be OK. The problem lies in the fact that he is more than likely using a bridgeable amplifier. If he is using a bridgeable amp, the left negative and the right positive wires are connected together inside the amp. The bluetooth module will not like the dead short between the output wires.
mikster 
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Member spacespace
Joined: May 05, 2008
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posted: May 21, 2008 at 5:55 AM / IP Logged  
Parrot recommended I hook in line with the speaker outputs on my Alpine MRP 450 amp, but I can't. The relays inside the BT module are only rated for 25W RMS, and my amp is 70W RMS per channel.
Plus..there is NO line level input/output on the BT module. It's only speaker level.
I have the AVN5510 from Eclipse..
chriswallace187 
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Gold spacespace
Joined: March 11, 2002
Location: Pennsylvania, United States
Posted: May 21, 2008 at 10:21 AM / IP Logged  
So the bluetooth module interrupts the speaker wires with a relay? I mistook you earlier and thought that it just had (-) and (+) speaker outputs which you connect in parallel.
I'll agree with you that it's probably not a good idea to run the inputs continuously through the internal relays, and that you should use external DPDT relays with a voltage suppression diode like we discussed earlier.
C Renner's Auto Electronix
My service is cheap, quick, and good - pick any two
collyn eastham 
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Joined: November 08, 2007
Location: Texas, United States
Posted: June 02, 2008 at 1:46 PM / IP Logged  
I did this similar installation a few weeks ago, but it was an Alpine IVA, and two PDX amps. I simply wired the Parrot to the front speakers directly and used the yellow wire from the parrot to break the remote turn-on lead of the amps through a relay. Works great and the volume of the Parrot stays consistant.
Collyn Eastham
a.k.a. 300MBQuart
08 HHR Panel
i am an idiot 
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Joined: September 21, 2006
Location: Louisiana, United States
Posted: June 02, 2008 at 8:13 PM / IP Logged  

That is using your thinking cap  Collyn,  when the bluetooth is not active the relays will be seeing the voltage from the amplifier, but if the other end of the bluetooth harness is not connected to anything, there will be no current through the relays.  When the bluetooth is activated, the module turns your amplifier off, then the bluetooth amp will power the speakers.  This should not be a problem for either device.    Thanks for the input.  I never thought of turning the amp off.  I am such an idiot sometimes

mikster 
Member - Posts: 3
Member spacespace
Joined: May 05, 2008
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posted: June 23, 2008 at 4:07 PM / IP Logged  
I've finally found a solution, that is simple and cost-effective, of hooking up the Parrot Bluetooth modules to the Eclipse AVN series of head units.
These BT modules were not designed with aftermarket amps in mind, so I had to find a solution that would switch between the head unit and the bluetooth module. I also wanted to switch at the LINE level, instead of the speaker level. The wiring would be easier, since all the line level wiring is conveniently behind the headunit in car.
The solution, as so many have said, was wiring a DPDT relay in line. Since I was working with line level outputs, I didn't have to find a relay that needed to handle high wattage. The relay I found was a simply electronic A/B switch from Navone Engineering (the N-806). It's a DPDT relay with silver contacts that allows one to switch a Left and Right (L/R) channel from two sources. It has five wires on it:
-One pair of RCA inputs "A" that are by default "on";
-One pair of RCA inputs "B" that switch when the coil of the relay is energized;
-One pair of RCA outputs that connect to the downstream AMP;
-One red wire Power / Trigger wire;
-and one black GDN wire.
Basically, the setup was simple:
1- wire the FR L&R speaker outputs (rated at 6W) of my Parrot BT module to a speaker-to-line out converter (LOC). In turn this gets wired to the RCA input "B" of the N806.
2- wire the FR L&R Eclipse line outputs direct to the N806 RCA input "A".
3- wire the RED trigger wire of N806 to ignition (ACC) +12V.
4- wire the BLK gdn wire of N806 to the Eclipse pink TEL MUTE, and to the pink TEL MUTE (trigger) of the Bluetooth module.
5- wire the FR L&R RCA outputs from the N806 to the AMP.
So, when there is no phone call, the coil of the relay is not energized, and the Eclipse line out signal is free to go to the amplifier. When a phone call is received, it triggers the Bluetooth module to put the pink TEL MUTE to GND ground, which at the same times sends a GND to the Eclipse that puts it into "MUTE" mode, and *also* grounds the N806 relay, which energizes the coil, allows the signal from Input "B" to be active and flow thru to the amplifier.
Cost of the N806 is about $25. Great solution, highly recommended.
I've attached a simplified schematic for this.
Mikster
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