the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
icon

rear speakers and staging


Post ReplyPost New Topic
< Prev Topic Next Topic >
tbonez3858 
Member - Posts: 4
Member spacespace
Joined: June 10, 2008
Location: Georgia, United States
Posted: June 11, 2008 at 2:03 PM / IP Logged  

Over the years I built out my system using only high quality components. I have JL Audio XRCSI 6.5 fronts and a JL 10w6v2 sub in the rear. I have an Alpine head unit that I am replacing with a pioneer premier because my crossover is going out. The system was designed on paper and installed by a true pro….The simple truth is I cant STAND how it sounds…It isnt the speakers I don’t like it’s the gap I have from the sound of the front speakers to the sound of the sub in the rear. .I cant correct it I’ve tried. In the end I think I just don’t like sound staging from the front only. Call me a noob or whatever but every car system that I have heard that I truly loved had LOTS of speakers and LOTS of power. So now enters the question..I no longer care who laughs or who says it sounds like crap I want REAR FILL…I thought about adding a couple of 8 inch mid bass but I feel like that is to close to the sub. So should I add 6x9 ( I know everyone dreads them) or should I add 5x7s or just some 6.5s….I know one thing for sure my days of being an audio snob because it was the "right" thing to do are over...

stevdart 
Platinum - Posts: 5,816
Platinum spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spaceThis member consistently provides reliable informationspace
Joined: January 24, 2004
Location: Pennsylvania, United States
Posted: June 11, 2008 at 10:04 PM / IP Logged  

It seems that you are experiencing a severe loss in the critical bass-to-sub freq range.  Adding speakers won't fill this gap.  Your description "it’s the gap I have from the sound of the front speakers to the sound of the sub in the rear." tells the story.

Adding rears for fill may help with front soundstage imaging if done just right, but shouldn't be considered to fill in the missing music range.  They may help raise the front soundstage in some applications, but if woofers are added behind you that provide the (~)60 to 100 Hz range then the problem will still occur.  It would be akin to raising the LP filter on the sub to a higher frequency.  That is to say, it's still behind you and the front soundstage is supposed to be designed to sound like its in front of you.

You should redesign the front and add the necessary ingredients so that you feel an impactful punch in the 80 Hz region.  Like a sharp rhythmic drumbeat.  It is those front woofers that should make you feel it in your chest.

Some of the things that might be wrong with your system:  inadequate damping of the door sheet metal panels;  loss of waves from front to back of the woofers (bad seals);  flimsy mounting (no solid mounting baffles);  the use of pods instead of door locations;  poor crossover setup;  faulty crossovers or other gear; et cetera...

As you know, this is only my opinion based on your posted information.  But I believe that you should get the system (using the fronts only) properly blended with the rear sub before adding additional speakers to the problem.  Make a test CD of tones in a multitude of stepping frequencies that will adequately cover the problem area.  Also, record some sweeps that cover that range.  This will give you some more solid data to work with.

Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.
haemphyst 
Platinum - Posts: 5,054
Platinum spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Electrical Theory. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: January 19, 2003
Location: Michigan, Bouvet Island
Posted: June 12, 2008 at 12:02 AM / IP Logged  
I echo stevdart's sentiments...
It's simply not done right.
Proper staging is difficult to achieve, and rear fill will NOT make it easier. If you put any kind of driver at all in the back, expecting those to "fill-in", then you are going to add MORE problems. If you are only running 6's (and you are), and (effectively) full-range 6's at that (and you are), it's going to be tough to get them to go down to the range of the subs, and still have effective output. This is why you are hearing such a hole in your response.
I might also add that a swap from the Alpine to the Pioneer is NOT a step in the right direction, if truly looking for SQ. Even old Alp will put the smack-down on new Pio.
Crossover points, phase of the speakers, crossover slopes, crossover frequency... ALL of these can, will and DO have a drastic affect on the blending of front to sub.
With what you are describing, simply swap the woofer or subwoofer phase. Subwoofer is generally easiest, simply use the phase switch on the amplifier, if present, or reverse the amplifier's output leads.
It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
falconyellow 
Member - Posts: 33
Member spacespace
Joined: March 31, 2008
Location: Oregon, United States
Posted: June 12, 2008 at 10:33 PM / IP Logged  
The way I usually fix my staging with rear speakers is by eliminating them. This has worked every time I've tried it so far.
jettagli03 
Copper - Posts: 311
Copper spacespace
Joined: January 16, 2005
Location: United States
Posted: June 12, 2008 at 11:13 PM / IP Logged  
Read the post again. He has no rear speakers besides the subwoofer. He is thinking about adding some full range speakers.
tbonez3858 
Member - Posts: 4
Member spacespace
Joined: June 10, 2008
Location: Georgia, United States
Posted: June 13, 2008 at 6:31 AM / IP Logged  

Well I went back to the basics...I cut off the EQ, I cut off the sub, leveled all of my treble/bass levels to 0 and changed my crossover for my components back to reference settings...What I figured out is my highs and mids sound like crap. They are muffled and dont produce enough sound. At this point I dont know if it is the speakers or the head unit sound I dont like.  I need to pull new wire and play with the tweater positions. The 6.5 and tweets are installed low in the door. The 6.5 is mounted in an MDF ring in the door and the tweet is installed just behind it. I wanted the tweet installed just above the 6.5 but I cant because the window crank. I can build new door panels...So now the delima is what to do....I dont moving the tweet around is going to "liven" up the system...In the end I may be jaded as these speakers are crossed over and I might not like the sound because they arent full range..I really wish I could get this worked out because its driving me nuts...The one comment that has confused me so far is the Alpine comment. I have seen plenty of competition systems with Pioneer decks in them. In my opinion the premier line isnt a bad line of head units. I got into car audio a long time ago so I know there is a nostalgic old school pull for some people. The old amps were better in my opinion but I dont think HU and speakers have done anything but get better..So why do you feel the older Alpine mid-gradeHU is better than a new top of the line Pioneer primier...


Sorry, you can NOT post a reply.
This topic is closed.

  Printable version Printable version Post ReplyPost New Topic
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

  •  
Search the12volt.com
Follow the12volt.com Follow the12volt.com on Facebook
Friday, March 29, 2024 • Copyright © 1999-2024 the12volt.com, All Rights Reserved Privacy Policy & Use of Cookies
Disclaimer: *All information on this site ( the12volt.com ) is provided "as is" without any warranty of any kind, either expressed or implied, including but not limited to fitness for a particular use. Any user assumes the entire risk as to the accuracy and use of this information. Please verify all wire colors and diagrams before applying any information.

Secured by Sectigo
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
Support the12volt.com
Top
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer