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avantguard only remote starts when cold


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scorpionleather 
Member - Posts: 18
Member spacespace
Joined: September 25, 2008
Location: California, United States
Posted: May 07, 2009 at 3:20 PM / IP Logged  
I used to have an AvantGuard G4 in my 2001 Yukon Denali (worked solid), and now upgraded to the AvantGuard G5 and lately the remote start feature only works when the car is cold, like first thing in the morning before I leave to work.  If I use the remote starter when the car has run recently, or even an hour ago (slightly warm engine), it tries to start and makes a long scraping sound and engine fails to start.  This sounds exactly as if the starter was cranking too long.  Then it retries automatically and same thing happens.  I'm wondering if the installer may have set the crank duration too long?  I have the Cliffnet Wizard Pro so I can change it, but I'm not sure if I should mess with this setting.  Another possibility is if the alarm was installed incorrectly and if the fuel is being cutoff or the Denali's own passlock is not fully disabled and somehow preventing the engine from starting.  But I hope that the cold/warm engine clue can indicate the likely cause..
scorpionleather 
Member - Posts: 18
Member spacespace
Joined: September 25, 2008
Location: California, United States
Posted: May 07, 2009 at 4:20 PM / IP Logged  
I watched it again, and on the failed start attempts, the engine will actually start for a couple seconds and then it shuts off.  Then it pauses and tries again three times.  So it almost seems as if the alarm is not getting the tach signal and it thinks the car never started (when actually it did).  Of course starting with the key always works fine.
loneranger 
Copper - Posts: 572
Copper spacespace
Joined: December 28, 2008
Posted: May 08, 2009 at 4:36 PM / IP Logged  
It sounds very much like a crank / tach issue. I would take it back for a warranty diagnostic.
Ideal - cmon dude, add to topics in a useful manner, not stuff that is obvious.
Story - Phzzzt! Hey, what happened?! ... Isn't it obvious?
Moral - Never dismiss the obvious.
howie ll 
Pot Metal - Posts: 16,466
Pot Metal spacespace
Joined: January 09, 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: May 08, 2009 at 5:14 PM / IP Logged  
Can I please do my sour grapes routine?  The G4  AG lV was probably the finest alarm + R/S ever made, especially in terms of build quality, I know the newer product has 2 way, extra range etc. but how neccessary is that?  The second point is don't use your Wiz with the starter section with a G5 unit, it's OK on G4 but G5 will glitch to kingdom come, especially on the starter section.  I've got my hands on an old Tosh laptop,set it up for Win 98SE and just loaded Wiz V1.1 AND 2.2 because the UK alarms have a 4 digit pin (Valet Code) which is random. This way I can do G4 and G5 and read the Valet codes.
scorpionleather 
Member - Posts: 18
Member spacespace
Joined: September 25, 2008
Location: California, United States
Posted: May 08, 2009 at 5:22 PM / IP Logged  

I know what you mean, because after the G4 I had the Matrix 2.2 installed, and then it was so unreliable I had it ripped out and replaced with the more "classic style" Clifford G5.  The Matrix series doesn't deserve the Clifford name, it is the inferior Viper product line I think.  I don't care for the bling bling they put on the remotes, just want something that works solid.

Since I have Cliffnet Wizard Pro, I went into the Starter section and the RPM was set to around 600.  So I clicked on Program RPM and I got it down to 430.  Is it possible that when the car was cold, it would easily reach above 600 RPM during start, and then when the car was warm it would idle upon ignition a little bit slower and it wouldn't reach the threshold?  Would this cause it to shutdown after a couple seconds?

howie ll 
Pot Metal - Posts: 16,466
Pot Metal spacespace
Joined: January 09, 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: May 08, 2009 at 7:03 PM / IP Logged  
In their instructions, Clifford always used to tell you to let the RPM die down and set it up with the engine warm!
scorpionleather 
Member - Posts: 18
Member spacespace
Joined: September 25, 2008
Location: California, United States
Posted: May 08, 2009 at 8:13 PM / IP Logged  
After adjusting the RPM threshold down to 430 (from 600) it didn't make any difference, still shuts down the engine when it is warm.  It does something even worse, when I back up the car in reverse after a remote start, the car shuts down on me (even with the key in the ingnition position!).  I think the installer hooked up some wires wrong.  The reason I come here to 12V forums for help is also because my installer is one of those guys who hates to read the manual and he thinks he's such a pro that he knows how to do it based on experience.  When I briefly tried out the Matrix 2.2 he hooked up some of my sensors incorrectly last year - he cut a wiring harness plug and put the sensor into a terminal nut instead, when it should have just plugged right in.  I double checked his install job after having strange sensor problems, and downloaded the manual, and sure enough he didn't read the install manual.  So I'm wondering what he "might have" done in a nonstandard way for the AvantGuard G5, that could cause these symptoms.  When I take it to the shop he spends a lot of time messing with it and saying things like "maybe it's because your engine is idling rough" when in fact my engine is idling pretty smooth at 500rpm.
scirocco16v 
Copper - Posts: 112
Copper spacespace
Joined: October 27, 2003
Posted: May 09, 2009 at 10:30 PM / IP Logged  
I would have tended to blame the passlock system too until you said it starts fine when cold.  Who knows it might still be the passlock system if the install is that butched.  If it was me i would try a different tach wire from the vehicle.  I don't know what he used but on rare occasions clifford intellistarts, were picky about their tach signals.  Tach signals that would work on dei designed  products, would not always work reliably with clifford intellistarts and do some of the things you are explaining.  I have seen it before on a few rare occasions.  The one thing to consider though, is that when you actually downgraded to the g5, the intellistart portions were the same, that module was carried over.    so if he was using the same wire with the ag4 it should theoretically work the same with the ag5.  they were both in the same vehicle correct.  What i would do to further determine the cause of the problem is go into the wizard.  Set  it to no tach for troubleshooting only (always use a tach signal) and then set a crank duration that will start the vehicle.  Do this while the engine is warm.  Remote start with your foot near the brake to cancel if it overruns.  If the vehicle starts and stays running, you need to find a new tach wire, If it still dies your problem lies elsewhere, maybe passlock.  No tach is the only way to change crank duration because in tach mode it will be adjusted automatically.  Furthermore, it will not try again if it does not start first time,  because it gives it one shot and just assumes its running.  i could not even begin to speculate on the reverse thing, that should never happen.
howie ll 
Pot Metal - Posts: 16,466
Pot Metal spacespace
Joined: January 09, 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: May 10, 2009 at 5:15 AM / IP Logged  
Scirocco, thank for that answer, it was very good and taught me something about the Wiz that I didn't already know.
scorpionleather 
Member - Posts: 18
Member spacespace
Joined: September 25, 2008
Location: California, United States
Posted: July 16, 2009 at 7:48 PM / IP Logged  
I think we solved the mystery remote start shutoff.  The installer replaced one of those wire-splice-connectors to the tach wire just above the engine.  This time he soldered the wires together.  It seems there was a loose connection.  Probably the connector had some thermal expansion when the engine was warm.  Anyway now after he made this fix, the remote start works normally and keeps running.  Those splice connectors should be banned!

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