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auto reset on key off= latching?


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burntkat 
Copper - Posts: 143
Copper spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: October 26, 2003
Location: South Carolina, United States
Posted: March 24, 2014 at 3:42 PM / IP Logged  
Gents-
Bear with me here as I dust off some neurons-
A friend is trying to get a circuit built for his daughter's Jeep. Basically, he added driving lights so she can see well, but doesn't want her having to remember to turn them off every time she turns off the vehicle (obviously that's easy- run the switching off IGN)- he specifically wants her to have to remember to turn them ON after every IGN cycle....
IE:
-lights won't operate with IGN OFF.
-lights are operable with IGN ON/Engine running (logic isn't getting that granular- the girl can remember to remove her key when she gets out ;) )
-Upon switching off the IGN, lights go off.
-Upon switching IGN ON, lights are OFF (with their having been no manipulation of the switchgear other than the IGN switch).
Sounding like a latching relay to me, right? In that case- I need a source for a 30A latching relay that'll fit the bill. Suggestions?
We saw this old thread:
https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=57075
But aren't quite sure those conglomerations are what we're after. Haven't had a lot of time to devote to it yet, as we're wrapping up the workday....
"Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it. - Robert A. Heinlein"
burntkat 
Copper - Posts: 143
Copper spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: October 26, 2003
Location: South Carolina, United States
Posted: March 24, 2014 at 3:43 PM / IP Logged  
(Year/make/model are irrelevant- I'm not looking for a complete cut-by-cut wire splice and fit guide, just looking for a component....)
"Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it. - Robert A. Heinlein"
oldspark 
Gold - Posts: 4,913
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Joined: November 03, 2008
Location: Australia
Posted: March 24, 2014 at 4:32 PM / IP Logged  
howie (aka: harryharris)
Silver - Posts: 355
Silver spacespace
Joined: February 17, 2014
Location: Florida, United States
Posted: March 24, 2014 at 4:40 PM / IP Logged  
You can get 2 x 10 amp latching relays from Omron, 1 for each driving light would be more than adequate, 100watt (rally only) H2 draws 8-10 amps so for "normal" driving lights the current requirements are under 20amps.
Test before boxing up.
howie (aka: harryharris)
Silver - Posts: 355
Silver spacespace
Joined: February 17, 2014
Location: Florida, United States
Posted: March 24, 2014 at 4:41 PM / IP Logged  
That was too simple, I'd also suggest the on/off switch is ignition controlled thus latch via ign.
Test before boxing up.
howie (aka: harryharris)
Silver - Posts: 355
Silver spacespace
Joined: February 17, 2014
Location: Florida, United States
Posted: March 24, 2014 at 4:57 PM / IP Logged  
I've just read Oldspark's reference, here's a few thoughts.
First there are legality problems here, in many countries you can't have driving lights without at least running lights and possibly low beam headlights.
Feed the relay coil, latching not required from either low beam or running lights.
Then use another relay to cut the ground side of the coil, controlled via ignition or ACC.
Thus.
Relay One:-
Ground to 87 and 85
Ignition to 86
30 to relay two.
Relay Two:-
87 15-20 amp fused constant source
Running lights or low beam to 86
85 from 30 on relay 1
30 to lights.
Completely auto and legal, except when she dazzles on comers.
Frankly it's far less complicated to relay them off the high beams!
Heck most Euros won't give you headlights without ignition. If it isn't a Euro, then relay off the high beams then an ignition trigger rather than interrupt.
Test before boxing up.
burntkat 
Copper - Posts: 143
Copper spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: October 26, 2003
Location: South Carolina, United States
Posted: March 24, 2014 at 6:15 PM / IP Logged  
That last trick (while excellent), won't work. He specifically wants something that doesn't allow the aux lights to burn all the while the other lights are burning. IE: an auto-reset-to-off after IGN toggle. If she decides she needs more light, then she can re-activate the AUX lights.
Legality isn't a huge concern here- most of the Police here don't know the law, let alone enforce it properly.
I certainly do understand and agree with the approach of the last prior post- in fact that's the way I'm going to wire my lights, for the most part. But this isn't my car, isn't my kid. It's also a new driver, so he's trying to make it as noob-proof as possible- the ideas being to remove the possibility of leaving the lights engaged and killing the battery (has been done several times already) and also to minimize burntime on the lamps, thus economizing their use. Hey, I'm with you- that's kinda reaching for a benefit that isn't really an issue, but again- not my equipment and not my money.
He's very clear that he wants the auto-reset-to-off after IGN toggle feature. I have everything else figured out except the latching relay. I believe someone mentioned a 10A latching, will investigate it and run two in parallel if needed. I think I will only need one and let a standard 5-pin do the heavy lifting downstream of it.
"Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it. - Robert A. Heinlein"
oldspark 
Gold - Posts: 4,913
Gold spacespace
Joined: November 03, 2008
Location: Australia
Posted: March 24, 2014 at 10:41 PM / IP Logged  
IMO forget a latching relay - I certainly can't see a requirement for it.
A normal relay will do whether wired as per my - or similar - self latching circuits, or a powered normally from whatever sources.
EG - if simply IGN dependent:
- IGN +12V thru an on switch to the driving light relay (86), or
- IGN +12V thru a momentary push button ON switch to the driving light relay wired as per my latching circuit below - both +12V sources being IGN +12V.
auto reset on key off= latching? - Last Post -- posted image.
If needing to be legal or light dependent, the switch source from whatever relevant +12V light source.
If using the latching setup but whatever relevant +12V switch source is unable to power the driving lights, then another relay turned on by IGN +12V (eg, an IGN RELAY as per EFI systems) which connects fused battery +12V to the latching relay.
The same "IGN RELAY" can be inserted if headlight +12V is used to turn on the latching OR driving light relay but headlights stay on with IGN off.
burntkat 
Copper - Posts: 143
Copper spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: October 26, 2003
Location: South Carolina, United States
Posted: March 25, 2014 at 7:53 AM / IP Logged  
Thanks, gents. I'm going to breadboard out a couple of these and do some kitchen table-top testing and see what we can make happen.
"Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it. - Robert A. Heinlein"

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