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Wiring PTS System - 3 Ignition Wires, PTT Has 2


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briandye 
Member - Posts: 24
Member spacespace
Joined: January 20, 2013
Location: Michigan, United States
Posted: November 19, 2017 at 10:03 PM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote briandye
Its definitely a PATS or Neutral Safety Switch issue.
I was told to ground pin 85 of the starter relay, because PATS disables the starter if it detects the wrong/no key. With that pin grounded, the PTT will crank the engine, however, it wont start, because I also found out that PATS disables the fuel injectors. So I know the PTT is hooked up correctly, as in its doing all its supposed to do.
The two wires I keep mentioning, the black/pink (pink might be purple?) are actually going in to the same pin on the ignition harness plug. They get 12v as soon as the key is pushed into the ignition, and in all positions, but I didn't check the crank position, so I don't know if they get 12v there. Simply having the key in the ignition is not enough, it has to be turned all the way to "On" (Or Run if thats what you call it)
If my key is turned to the on/run position, and I use the PTT button, it fires right up as it should. I can even take the key out and it stays running (of course, with no key, I cant get it out of park, but i'm not at that point yet)
2006 Explorer XLT
2009 Ford Fusion SEL
kreg357 
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Platinum spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Electrical Theory. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Security and Convenience. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: January 30, 2009
Location: Pennsylvania, United States
Posted: November 20, 2017 at 12:02 PM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote kreg357
Here are my thoughts on our car.   I believe the car has 2 ignition wires, two accessory wires and one starter wire.
IGNITION 1........PURPLE/ORANGE (+)
IGNITION 2........WHITE/LIGHT BLUE (+)
ACCESSORY 1.......GRAY/YELLOW (+)
ACCESSORY 2.......WHITE/PURPLE (+)
STARTER...........DARK GREEN (+)
The Black/Pink is a (+) Keysense wire. It should go the +12V when the key is inserted and stay at +12V
with the key turned to START.
You should use a DMM to check, test and verify each of these wires found at the ignition switch harness to
determine the ignition type wires from the accessory type wires.
It would appear that your PKK connections don't match or do everything that the key does during start
up. If the PKK will work when the key is in and set to ON, you want to try and set the PKK up to do the
same thing.
Soldering is fun!
briandye 
Member - Posts: 24
Member spacespace
Joined: January 20, 2013
Location: Michigan, United States
Posted: November 20, 2017 at 12:05 PM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote briandye
I will double check and probe all the connections, but all the diagrams I originally pulled, said 3 ignition, 1 accessory.
I also just finally found a diagram that explains the black/pink wire, like you said needing 12v with the key. One of them goes to the LCM, one to the driver door module. (If that was the only issue, then surely just having the key in the ignition while trying to use the PTS button would work)
2006 Explorer XLT
2009 Ford Fusion SEL
kreg357 
Platinum - Posts: 7,781
Platinum spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Electrical Theory. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Security and Convenience. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: January 30, 2009
Location: Pennsylvania, United States
Posted: November 20, 2017 at 12:38 PM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote kreg357
Yep, Keysense is not the whole problem. Having an ACC wire powered as an IGN wire is not a huge issue but
the other way around is. If an ignition wires stays at +12V when the key is at START, it should be powered
as an IGN type wire.
Soldering is fun!
briandye 
Member - Posts: 24
Member spacespace
Joined: January 20, 2013
Location: Michigan, United States
Posted: November 20, 2017 at 1:02 PM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote briandye
I’m thinking you may be on to something here.
I pulled my starter relay, so I could turn the key to crank without cranking the engine while I probe with my DMM.
I noticed something. When I use my key, and turn it to crank, my gauge lights stay on (all the warning indicators)
When I use the PTT, when it goes to crank the starter, the gauge cluster shuts off and restarts as soon as I let off the button.
I’m thinking it’s killing power to one of the ignition wires when it cranks, but I’m gonna have to probe around even more now and figure that out.
2006 Explorer XLT
2009 Ford Fusion SEL
briandye 
Member - Posts: 24
Member spacespace
Joined: January 20, 2013
Location: Michigan, United States
Posted: November 20, 2017 at 1:15 PM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote briandye
The PTS system is killing power to one of the ignition outputs when cranking.
I think this is my issue, obviously it’s causing issues but let’s hope some relay magic will make it work as intended.
2006 Explorer XLT
2009 Ford Fusion SEL
briandye 
Member - Posts: 24
Member spacespace
Joined: January 20, 2013
Location: Michigan, United States
Posted: November 24, 2017 at 9:13 AM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote briandye
Just wanted to give a final update.
My car in fact does have 3 ignition wires, and 1 accessory.
I probed the PTS unit, and sure enough found out that it killed power to one of the two ignition outputs when it would crank. This in turn would disable most of the car, rendering the no start, and no crank issue. (I believe one of the circuits it killed included the PATS system, so it wouldn’t let it crank)
I used the other wire as the trigger, because the second output was simply a trigger wire for my relays controlling the other two ignition outputs, and the system works flawlessly now.
Thanks for everyone’s help and suggestions!
2006 Explorer XLT
2009 Ford Fusion SEL
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