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Which 6 1/2's should I get


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slave2bass 
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Member spacespace
Joined: March 27, 2005
Location: United States
Posted: March 27, 2005 at 10:26 PM / IP Logged  
Are you thinking that it won't matter on bass for the 6 1/2's cause of the sub?  I was too.  What about midbass though?  I don't know that much about what frequencies are for what instruments.  I just know that the 6 1/2's distort on like 100Hz or lower with the volume on about 12-14.  It's a pioneer deck and I have the bass set at +2.
slave2bass
customsuburb 
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Gold spacespace
Joined: January 17, 2004
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Posted: March 27, 2005 at 10:27 PM / IP Logged  
Go with the Eclipse speakers if you like them. You shouldn't have any problems with them bottoming out as long as you don't try to make them play bass really loud. If you have an amp for them just turn on the high pass filter at around 80 hz.
kfr01 
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Posted: March 27, 2005 at 10:37 PM / IP Logged  
When you buy your amplifier you'll use a high pass filter at 80-100hz. Like custom said, this will eliminate the bottoming out and dramatically increase the power handling. Your subwoofer is probably already set to a 80-100hz low pass. Your transition should be fine, although you're right, getting the sub bass-midbass-midrange transition correct is one of the largest challenges in SQ focused car audio, in my opinion. All I can say is that all 6.5" component speakers are challenging to implement in the midbass region. If you really get into this wonderful hobby many folks eventually upgrade to dedicated midbass drivers. I say buy the best sounding speakers to your ears in the midrange for now. Forget about the bass and midbass right now, you won't be able to evaluate that until you hear them installed in your car, with your high pass crossover, integrated with your subwoofer.
On that note, I don't like comparing speakers in other drivers' cars. You've already pointed out why. Most people do substandard install jobs on main speakers. You end up comparing the range of installs more than the speakers themselves.
If you liked the Eclipse's the best on the wall, go for them. Take care installing them. Set the amplifier crossover and gains with some brains, and you'll probably have a great sounding system.
New Project: 2003 Pathfinder
slave2bass 
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Member spacespace
Joined: March 27, 2005
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Posted: March 28, 2005 at 12:20 AM / IP Logged  

OK, cool.  The amp I chose has independant variable crossovers for the front and rear channels both.  That's why I picked it, plus the power output of 50 watts RMS per channel.  Just seemed like a nice round number that would work with most speakers without being too much.  Cause I knew the amp had the features I'm looking for, but still didn't know what speakers I'd get, I didn't want to limit my choices.  So, I'll be able to play with the crossover frequency to see what sounds best.  Since the sub will be running bridged on the rear channels of the same amp, and it has the same crossover for it too, then I can just set it where the front channel crossover leaves off.  It will be pushing 150 watts RMS to the 8" sub.  I already ordered and paid for the amp.  It's being shipped as we speak. 

I've just about convinced myself that the Eclipses are the ones I want.  I've made several trips out to listen to the Infinity speakers in the shop, and each time I was not satisfied.  I think I'd do well to forget them and just move on.  I just keep remembering how sweet the Eclipses sounded anyway, so crisp on the highs, but not too bright, and the mids weren't too fat either, just right and enough to fill the air,  and also they were suprisingly bassy for having a frequency response of 90Hz and up.  Their sensitivity is kinda high at 96dB, so even the lower frequencies are probably coming in at a higher dB range than on other speakers that would be 90Hz and up frequency respondant.  Considering dB/octave slope and all that is.  I was just kinda worried about them bottoming out cause of being so shallow, but if I cross them over at 80Hz or 100Hz, then it probably won't do that.  Mids won't be moving the cone like low bass would anyway, right?  I think that's what I'm doing, is getting the Eclipses while I still can.  Last year's model is the one I want cause of the grills being solid.

slave2bass
slave2bass 
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Posted: March 28, 2005 at 12:25 AM / IP Logged  
Thanks again for all your advice.
slave2bass
kfr01 
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Posted: March 28, 2005 at 12:34 AM / IP Logged  

Great.  The amplifier sounds like a good choice.

Also, bottoming out has nothing to do with the depth of the speaker.  Different manufactuers use different magnet and basket designs.  Don't read anything more into that. 

Bottoming out happens when the speakers are asked to move to overexcursion.  i.e. moving the cone to extremes.  This rarely has anything to do with the depth of the speaker and more to do with what you cannot see inside the speaker motor. 

Don't worry about the bottoming out.  Play with the crossover, set the gains with some brains, and know the limits of your system when showing off and you'll be fine. 

That said, pay attention to your install.  Since you seem to care about SQ here are a few tips: 

1) Dynamat at least the metal surface your speaker will be attached to.  I think Raammat is the best value in damping material.

2) Use a foam gasket with the back cut out or foam gasketing tape to ensure a good seal. 

3) I've had success using some Cascade Audio deflex panels behind midrange speakers to further dampen and kill backwave

4) Keep the tweeter within inches of the woofer

5) Aim the tweeter at your ears as much as possible

Good luck!   Please let us know how they turn out or if you have any other questions.

edit: those tips were in no particular order.  I'm not really sure why I numbered them.  On that note, time for sleep.

New Project: 2003 Pathfinder
haemphyst 
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Joined: January 19, 2003
Location: Michigan, Bouvet Island
Posted: March 28, 2005 at 12:51 AM / IP Logged  
They're called Adire Extremis 6.8
It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
slave2bass 
Member - Posts: 8
Member spacespace
Joined: March 27, 2005
Location: United States
Posted: March 28, 2005 at 7:17 PM / IP Logged  

Well I ordered those Eclipses today.  They'll be here in about a week. 

I was thinkig about using baffles behind them, like Crutchfield sells, to give them an enclosure.  I heard it would increase midrange output if I did that. 

Also, I'm putting them in where I have already installed 6 1/2's before.  I'm just replacing the ones I have cause I don't like them.  But they are not mounted to metal, they are mounted to the plastic door molding.  The metal was not made to hold a speaker and it would have taken a LOT of fabrication to make it do that so I just put them on the plastic instead.  Occasionally, I get a resonating sound from the doors, and I've discovered that if I push on the door panel when I hear it, it will quieten down some, but not all the way.  I was wondering if I put dynamat or something on the back of that plastic panel if it would help?  Or put it on the metal itself, even though the speaker is attached to the plastic? 

Also this resonating sound is centered around the 80-100Hz range.  If I turn down bass or change the frequency to a higher freq. then it gets better.  So the amp highpassing them may help it some, and plus them being different speakers, it might not do it the same way anyway.

slave2bass
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