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newb, in car pc, avoiding disaster?


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silverdrgn 
Member - Posts: 6
Member spacespace
Joined: January 23, 2007
Location: United States
Posted: September 01, 2008 at 3:53 PM / IP Logged  

Hello, I am finally going to be able to start installation of all my bought components. My goal is to have a full desktop pc in the car to handle every form of entertainment I could possibly desire while on the move and/or relaxing in some beach.

Question1:  Can I use solid wire instead of stranded for small electronics such as a PC shutoff and power on module. I bought this module some time ago and have never connected it. It is suppose to handle the powering on and shut off of a pc while in a vehicle. it has timers and options to send signals to the pc to shut it down when car is turned off. The wiring that came with it is small maybe 20 gauge. I looked around and wire is pretty expensive so can i go to Home depot and buy a 50ft cable used to handle sprinkler systems and just solder thos solid 18gauge wires to the existsing stranded 20 gauge. The 18 gauge can handle low voltage and low amps up to 50 amps i think. I doubt that such amperage will be used in sending and recieving signals to the module but that is why I am asking here to the more knowledgeable. Can I use this setup and not fry anything if done correctly?

Question Two: Should I buy a second smaller AGM battery to handle only the pc power? I was going to use a power inverter to convert the power to ac and then the pc power supply will convert it back to dc (pointless and effeciency loss) is this the only way? Is there something that I can use or make to use the Car 12volt to power the pc? If so do I need to use a seperate smaller battery than the Odyssey battery I bought for crankig and continous use for vehicle operation. I know pc's need clean power, can I make this happen without dropping a fortune or frying the pc?

I will leave with those question out there, please please help me decide what to do. Space is limited and money too, lol. A PC power supply able to handle the pc comfortably will be about 80$ plus another 80-120 for the convertor. I'd say a DIY that will give me some saftey and reliablility would be very useful. Thank you for your time and any advice you may provide.

My brain threatens me all the time.
reax222 
Copper - Posts: 220
Copper spacespace
Joined: March 11, 2006
Location: United States
Posted: September 01, 2008 at 5:50 PM / IP Logged  
Back when I looked at doing this (the 5.25 small footprint was new), there were DC-DC converters available. I think they ran in the $100 range, but took automotive DC and cleaned it to a level safe for PCs. This is how I would go, hopefully they would include 12v and 5v rails so you could use it in place of a power supply. look at this one http://store.mp3car.com/M2_ATX_160W_Intelligent_DC_DC_PSU_p/pwr-015.htm
I would stay clear of solid conductor. There are lower strand count wires that would do, but I much prefer working with high strand count wires.
silverdrgn 
Member - Posts: 6
Member spacespace
Joined: January 23, 2007
Location: United States
Posted: September 01, 2008 at 10:15 PM / IP Logged  

The problem with this is that they are not strong enough to power the components I have. I Have a Biostar MB with a dual core athlon 5600+ , dvdrw drive, will run about 3 to 4 usb periphreals a single but possible dual video card setup later on for now a single. All in all in the power calculator in th Antec website I would need around 555 watts with the dual card setup so I would want to aim for a 600 to 680 watt PSU just to be safe for efficiency and upgradeability purposes. So I woudl need a 680watt PSU to power all the components adequately. Can I make one of these power filters to give clean power to the pc?

What about the wire? Can i use solid wire instead of stranded? Is there a problem with current, amperage, voltage, etc... Since I'm a newb I have to apologize for any obvious questions I may be asking. Thanks again for your advice.  

My brain threatens me all the time.
KPierson 
Platinum - Posts: 3,527
Platinum spaceThis member consistently provides reliable informationspace
Joined: April 14, 2005
Location: Ohio, United States
Posted: September 01, 2008 at 11:49 PM / IP Logged  

There isn't a problem with current, amperage, voltage, etc from an electrical standpoint, but there is a reliability issue - solid core wire is meant for places where there are no vibrations and no moving parts (like inside the walls of stationary buildings).  The single core won't have a high probability of surviving in a moving car.  If you think wire is expensive you either don't have deep enough pockets for a project like this or you are looking in the wrong place.  Check out www.delcity.net for cheap wire or places like Parts Express ( www.PartsExpress.com).  Speaker wire would work great for signal  wiring.

The computer you spec'd out is, in my opinion, overkill for an automotive environment.  I would try to minimize power requirement so that you can back in to a automotive grade power supply - you will have better luck in the long run using automotive grade parts instead of desktop computer parts (another part designed for a stationary life). 

Good luck!

Kevin Pierson
reax222 
Copper - Posts: 220
Copper spacespace
Joined: March 11, 2006
Location: United States
Posted: September 02, 2008 at 9:08 AM / IP Logged  
My first question is, is your vehicle prepared for another 50amp draw? The stock alternator shouldn't have enough overhead. Next, isn't there a connection such as DVI that offers multiple or serial connections, and then the video card might also support S-video, SVGA, and maybe some others to split the video off however you would like on a single card?
I agree with Kevin. My old 1.6a P4 oc'd to 2016, with 512mb ram and an old Radeon 7500 can play any video I've thrown at it. The PC you've spec'd is more of a gaming PC, now if you wanted to play the latest computer games while away from home, you'd be set. If you wanted to transcode video, you'd be in good shape.
silverdrgn 
Member - Posts: 6
Member spacespace
Joined: January 23, 2007
Location: United States
Posted: September 02, 2008 at 4:47 PM / IP Logged  
Thank you Kevin your advice is exactly what I was looking for in response to wiring. i will be checking out those sites you suggested for wiring. Also thank you reaxx for your insight as well. I do know that the pc i spec'ed is a bit overkill, ok it is alot of overkill but I want something that I do not have to upgrade everytime I want to add something. The primary use of the car PC I wanted is to be able to watch movies on long trips (at least passengers) use a kick ass graphics media player while I drive around add GPS get crisp clear show quality sound out of the soundcard, (X-Fi Fatality pro soundcard with the 64mb buffer) The components are pretty nice for an entry gaming system. I already have all the parts that has taken me about 1.5 yrs to gather. Basically the WOW factor is also what I am going for. I have grown up always wanting something like this and now that I can achieve it I want to. Don't get me wrong your advice is sound and very solid. Overkill is not a great idea, I want to do this so I can know that I can do it kind of thing is why I am so bent on the spec's of the system. I know money is an issue because the funds keep running out, i.e. why it took me so long to get all the parts. I am so close to getting the system of my dreams complete. Thank you again for your advice gentlemen I very much appreciate it. I hope my reasons for doing what I am doing are not completely stupid to everyone out there reading this thread. If anyone else has any input on the Power supply issue I would love to hear it.
I have beefed up the electrical system with a 180-190 amp alternator and an Oddyssey battery that has about 1000 pulse amps with about 1200 cca. It is a deepcycle agm battery that can handle the vibrations and abuse it will receive. Another concern was should I get a seperate smaller oddyssey battery to handle the PC power. Perhaps a 400 amp model that can operate independently from the main battery to help keep current to the pc clean and stable? Thanks again for any advice and opinions, even criticism is appreciated. Thank you folks.
My brain threatens me all the time.
reax222 
Copper - Posts: 220
Copper spacespace
Joined: March 11, 2006
Location: United States
Posted: September 02, 2008 at 5:10 PM / IP Logged  
There is no reason you couldn't use two or more of those DC-DC converters. They should be ATX compliant, so ground the green wire and you can turn them on.
If your going on for the wow factory, might I suggest either water cooled peltor or even submerging it. I found this site http://www.pugetsystems.com/submerged.php who used mineral oil, but I remember there being a very expensive gylcol fluid from 3m that was the bees knees. Plus submerging it in a viscous fluid could dampen some shock and vibration.
silverdrgn 
Member - Posts: 6
Member spacespace
Joined: January 23, 2007
Location: United States
Posted: September 02, 2008 at 9:48 PM / IP Logged  
WOW submerging the PC? I have never heard of that before. I will read up on it. Maybe fornow though I will juststick to the fans. I bought a vibrating kit for the hard drives that dampens vibrations at a place called microcenter. I will look into the submerging though. I am not quite certain that the watercooling will be very effective unless I find a way to block it from the summer heat inside the car. I know the pc will endure the same heat but I think water may take longer to cool off than the pc components. But submerging it sounds cool. lol. About teh dc-dc convertor reaxx, I am unsure how I would use noth of them. You said connect the green wire? Do you ean buying two seperate lets saw 160 watt ones and connecting them together. How will that work if the MB connectors will only be able to connect one to the MB. and it still leaves me at only 320watts, the calc on antec website suggested a minimum of 555watts. Just some questions to clear up my understanding. Thanks again for the input reaxx, anyone else have some info or advice on the method of powering. As it stands I will be using the old fashioned stuff unless two or more of those DC-DC convertors will work.
My brain threatens me all the time.
reax222 
Copper - Posts: 220
Copper spacespace
Joined: March 11, 2006
Location: United States
Posted: September 03, 2008 at 9:03 AM / IP Logged  
I would use one converter for the MB, It should be sufficient to power to that up. Tap the green wire on the main harness into the green on the other PSUs, to activate them. One should power your HDDs and DVD drive. I haven't kept up on MB design, but there used to be another 4 wire plug on them for extra power, my old asus had both the square and regular molex. If you need more then 160w to drive the MB, you could probably use aux power from the second or third PSU.
a cool idea for cooling a water cooled or submerged pc, wrap copper tube around the accumulator, cover it in insulation. As it cools, it will cool the coolant too.
toxic0n 
Member - Posts: 11
Member spacespace
Joined: November 19, 2007
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Posted: September 11, 2008 at 11:21 PM / IP Logged  
dude, dual core 56000+ athlon? dual video cards?
I have a car PC and it's a VIA onboard 1GHz fanless cpu (mini-atx motherboard) with 512MB RAM and 120GB hard drive. It plays videos smoothly, even HD videos. GPS software is fine as it doesn't really require that much processing power. WinAmp visuals are fine.
I also have an external USB hub powered by the DC power supply. The DC power supply has a startup/shutdown controller built in and is ratted for 160W. My USB devices include:
- Touch screen
- GPS
- Wifi card
- Webcam
- Radioshark
- USB DVD-RW drive
- Bluetooth dongle
With this setup, it's still more than enough power. Also, this setup produces were little heat - I only have a small fan for my customer made case (made from an Ikea key holder box) that I scavenged from an old video card.
All of this is running Windows XP with a RoadRunner front-end without any slow downs.
I guess what I'm saying is, downsize your setup and you will not have to worry about power and cooling issues. Have you been to mp3card.com forums yet? Tons of good info there.
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