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need some to build a sealed sub box.


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nexttothemoon 
Member - Posts: 3
Member spacespace
Joined: January 03, 2010
Location: New Zealand
Posted: January 03, 2010 at 8:58 PM / IP Logged  
I've just bought a new Pioneer TS-W308D2 dual 2 ohm VC subwoofer. This is the first sub I'm building an enclosure for so I wanted to keep it simple the first time around and stick with a sealed box to keep things easy and relatively foolproof. I may go ported in the future but that's another build for another time.
I have two different 2 channel amps (Kenwood KAC7204 ~500 RMS bridged 4 ohm for the subwoofer and an Earthquake T1000W/2 ~200 RMS x 2 channels 4 ohm for the 6.5" comps that I'm putting in the front doors (I'll keep the gains turned well down on the amp to the 6.5 comps).
I've looked at the Pioneer manual for the sub and it has the following stats for a sealed enclosure:
Minimum Sealed enclosure size: 0.85 cubic feet
Maximum Sealed enclosure size: 1.75 cubic feet
Recommended Sealed enclosure size: 1.25 cubic feet
These sizes include the speaker displacement.
Here are all the Thiele stats for the sub:
Nom. Dia.(In) 12
Qts 0.48
Qms 14.11
Qes 0.50
Fs [Hz] 33.7
Vas [l] 36.16
Vas [ft3] 1.28
Vd [l] 0.400
Vd [ft3] 0.01412
Sd [m2] 0.04597
Sd [ft2] 0.495
Revc [Ù] DUAL1.5
Levc [mH] (2000Hz) 2.18 (4Ù) 0.65 (1Ù)
Xmax [mm] 8.7
Xmax [in] 0.34
Zmax [Ù] 99.13 (4Ù) 24.81 (1Ù)
BI [Tm] 16.07 (4Ù) 8.04 (1Ù)
Rms[Ns/m] 2.773
Mms [g] 184.95
Cms [m/N] 0.00012
Mg.Wt.[g] 2350
Flux Density [Gauss] 6800
Hag [mm] 10
Hag [In] 0.39
Hvc [mm] 27.4
Hvc [In] 1.08
VC.Diameter [mm] 55
Eff [%] 0.27
S.P.L. [dB] 91.0
R.M.S.Power [W] 400
M.M.P. [W] 1400
Sp. Displacement [l] 2.16
Sp. Displacement [ft3] 0.076
Recom. Enclosure [l] 35.4
Recom. Enclosure [ft3] 1.25
F0 (in Cabinet) 47.9
Q0 (in Cabinet) 0.682
I also ran the numbers through WinISD and it calculated that the optimal sealed enclosure size for this sub is 1.093 cubic feet and gave the optimal box size as follows:
13.95" wide
21.46" high
8.93" deep
I'm using 18 mm thick MDF to build the box which is equivalent to 0.71 inches.
What I'm wondering as I'm new to this is which size within this range would be best for a sealed enclosure. Pioneer gives a large range of sizes to use from 0.85 to 1.75 cubic feet and their recommendation is basically right in the middle of that range @ 1.25 cubic feet whereas WinISD gives an optimal of 1.093 cubic feet.
What is the benefit of going as small as 0.85 cubic feet or as large as 1.75 cubic feet?
I'm basically looking for 50-50 SQ/SPL and I realize going sealed vs ported is giving up some SPL hopefully in favor of some SQ... and that's fine with me for this first build. What I'd like to know though is how the size of the enclosure within that range from .85 cubic feet to 1.75 cubic feet effects the SQ and SPL.
What size would you all recommend? What would sound the best and make optimal use of the sub for SQ/SPL in a sealed enclosure? Any advice is appreciated. Thanks in advance.
pcana11 
Copper - Posts: 116
Copper spacespace
Joined: June 10, 2009
Location: Georgia, United States
Posted: January 03, 2010 at 9:46 PM / IP Logged  
what kind of music do you listen to?
nexttothemoon 
Member - Posts: 3
Member spacespace
Joined: January 03, 2010
Location: New Zealand
Posted: January 04, 2010 at 12:10 AM / IP Logged  
The build is for a family member and they listen to a mix of music.. Mainly Rock and Rap and sometimes a few tracks from different genres. The setup should be a fairly good compromise between SQ and SPL if possible. 
stevdart 
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Joined: January 24, 2004
Location: Pennsylvania, United States
Posted: January 04, 2010 at 6:43 PM / IP Logged  

With the given specs for that sub, it looks like doing a sealed box would be a fine choice to make.  There is no benefit in either of the extreme sizes given;  those, remember, are the limitations in size.  Build your box so that it fits somewhere between the extremes, as indicated by the 1.25 cf size given in the manual.  I would likely tend to construct a little larger, such as 1.5 cf, knowing that it is easier to reduce airspace in a built enclosure than it is to add airspace.  Reduction of airspace is simply a matter of adding displacement materials, and that can be accomplished after setup and listening tests sometime in the future (if it is felt to be necessary for such experimentation).

There is no balance between SQ and SPL.  It's either one or the other, and that decision starts with what you buy and how you listen.  SPL is traditionally considered a competitive term but is generally used to describe a system that one might consider "bass heavy".  SQ is generally the goal for someone who appreciates the whole range of music; doesn't put the subs on a pedestal above all else.  Your descriptions point to SQ as the goal and you should realize that and not feel as if you have to give a nod to SPL.  We EXPECT the system to be LOUD...there is a volume knob to turn it down when you have to.  SQ is enjoyed very much loud.

As for you comment on the front amp's gain, I'll say it like this:  set the gain where it is supposed to be set.  Balance between front soundstage and sub is controlled otherwise through the deck.  Use the sticky thread on setting gain and search for prior threads regarding this subject to make sure you do it right.

Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.
nexttothemoon 
Member - Posts: 3
Member spacespace
Joined: January 03, 2010
Location: New Zealand
Posted: January 05, 2010 at 2:20 AM / IP Logged  

Excellent advice all around. I'm learning and every bit of advice is fully appreciated. I agree that Pioneer likely recommends 1.25 cubic feet as that's a decent middle ground between the extremes. That's what I'm going to go with as a base box size... and as you suggested I may add just a little up to maybe 1.35 cubic feet to allow for extra polyfill/bracing in the box.

On that note... Pioneer also says in their manual to line the enclosure walls with sound absorbing material. Do I go to the extreme here of using something like Dynamat or equivalent type product on the enclosure walls... or does just stuffing polyfill material into the sub achieve the same effect? I was also wondering if the box is filled with polyfill... is there no potential problems with heat dissapation if a fairly large amount of the polyfill is surrounding the sub assembly inside the box? Maybe these are noob type questions but better to know the best way to proceed now while I'm learning so I can learn and do it right the first time.

My concerns (and comments) about the gains on the amp used to power the front comps are because I realize I have sizeable amp (200 RMS x 2 channels @ 4 ohms) that's capable (if used stupidly) of potentially blowing the 6.5" comp speakers which are rated at 85 RMS (260 watts max power... but I disregard any "max power" ratings anywhere on amps/headers/speakers etc as I realize they are fantasy land figures.) I realize the volume knob is the best way to control the potential to destroy speakers.

DYohn 
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Location: Arizona, United States
Posted: January 05, 2010 at 10:36 AM / IP Logged  
nexttothemoon wrote:

Pioneer also says in their manual to line the enclosure walls with sound absorbing material. Do I go to the extreme here of using something like Dynamat or equivalent type product on the enclosure walls... or does just stuffing polyfill material into the sub achieve the same effect? I was also wondering if the box is filled with polyfill... is there no potential problems with heat dissapation if a fairly large amount of the polyfill is surrounding the sub assembly inside the box? Maybe these are noob type questions but better to know the best way to proceed now while I'm learning so I can learn and do it right the first time.

Line the walls with something like egg-crate foam or sound absorption material.  Dynamat is not what they're talking about (although it works well inside enclosure for other reasons.)  Using poly-fill will also help and no, there is no concern that it reduces cooling.  As to your gain question, please read the How to set your Gain post in the Hot Topics forum.

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haemphyst 
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Location: Michigan, Bouvet Island
Posted: January 05, 2010 at 11:37 AM / IP Logged  
Here's what I came up with...
need some to build a sealed sub box. -- posted image.
As you can see, there is VERY minimal output response difference (and indeed nearly EVERY electrical and mechanical characteristic) between a VERY small (and "optimal" for the woofer - thus the Pioneer recommendation) .85 cubic foot enclosure, and a 1.25 cubic foot enclosure. Anywhere in that range, and I think the differences will not be audible.
As DYohn pointed out, damping material (Dynamat) and "sound absorbing material" are different. You COULD use a Dynamat layer under the egg-crate, although I find that Dynamat really doesn't do too terribly much on ¾" MDF. It's simply not enough mass to make an audible difference - in MDF's case - damping thin sheets of metal, where you are starting with a FAR less damped substrate, with significantly lower mass, Dynamat is great stuff.
I also agree completely with stevdart's advice. SQ or SPL. It's a black or white choice. If you keep this in mind, you won't be quite so disappointed when you go to "rip off the knob", if you just remember the sealed enclosure will NEVER get really loud.
Adding polyfill does not make the box smaller. It, in fact, makes it larger, acoustically. I recommend suffing to around ½ pound per cubic foot.
One last point, if I may... BRACE YOUR ENCLOSURE! When you get to a small enclosure like that, bracing is very important. The stiffer your box is, the better your output will be, guaranteed. Wall flex translates into loss; losses that cannot be recovered. Since you are going sealed, and you want to get as loud as possible, bracing will be of paramount importance. (And for those of you that were keeping up with that thread as I was building the box, it sounds AWESOME!) No, seriously... It's important.
It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

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